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Division 1 College Conference Realignment


dfwabel
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You folks are forgetting a few things.

Firstly, you want to turn the ACC on its head and into C-USA (if I'm the Big East, that's what I would do) - go after Virginia and Maryland. Secondly this is just about moving pegs around. If you want to talk real expansion, how many schools gave up football since say the mid 70's? University of Tampa (Freddie Solomon's school - the former Dolphins receiver), Wichita State, etc. that given the right set of circumstances, would love to get back in the game? At one time NYU had a prominent program (and yes there is talk about starting a football program). There is no shortage of schools that, if given the money and proper economic circumstances, would consider starting a program or making a jump. Georgetown, St. Johns, etc. Could you imagine a Big East with NYU and St. Johns both playing at Citifield?

Even if the ACC goes to 16 and the Big East is killed off, there is no guarantee the ACC will stay the ACC. Remember, it was Brigham Young who led the WAC breakaway schools to start the Mountain West. And, guess what? They left. Who is to say that Clemson, Florida State and a few others don't leave to form their own conference? (a point of reference would be how companies became huge conglomerates through mergers in the 80s and how "thin" is the new "in").

And speaking of West Virginia, I happen to know Oliver Luck and have been unfortunate to have had to deal with him several times. He is a scumbag.

Here's a tidbit for you. In August, it was announced that an unidentified Mexican school (which happens to be one of the Universities in Monterrey) had sought out the NCAA to start on the road to becoming an NCAA member.

Now wouldn't the WAC love that?

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You folks are forgetting a few things.

Firstly, you want to turn the ACC on its head and into C-USA (if I'm the Big East, that's what I would do) - go after Virginia and Maryland.

And they would either refuse to pick up the phone or laugh in your face and hang up. There is no incentive on Earth that would drive those two schools to look at leaving FOR the Big East. The ACC is unimaginably better for those two schools.

Secondly this is just about moving pegs around. If you want to talk real expansion, how many schools gave up football since say the mid 70's? University of Tampa (Freddie Solomon's school - the former Dolphins receiver)
,

Tampa dropped football in the 1974 because it was a money-losing venture for the school. And South Florida didn't even have a football team back then, nor did the Buccaneers exist yet. It would be utter INSANITY for Tampa to try to resurrect a football team that has a best case scenario of "third banana" in the Tampa Bay football scene.

Wichita State, etc. that given the right set of circumstances, would love to get back in the game?

The Shockers dropped football due to a combination of crappy attendance, lost money, NCAA violations, and generally sucking on the field. I suspect the school is more than content to avoid taking on that hassle ever again.

At one time NYU had a prominent program (and yes there is talk about starting a football program). There is no shortage of schools that, if given the money and proper economic circumstances, would consider starting a program or making a jump. Georgetown, St. Johns, etc. Could you imagine a Big East with NYU and St. Johns both playing at Citifield?

No, but that's because I don't regularly drop acid.

Even if the ACC goes to 16 and the Big East is killed off, there is no guarantee the ACC will stay the ACC. Remember, it was Brigham Young who led the WAC breakaway schools to start the Mountain West. And, guess what? They left. Who is to say that Clemson, Florida State and a few others don't leave to form their own conference? (a point of reference would be how companies became huge conglomerates through mergers in the 80s and how "thin" is the new "in").

The ACC football schools have a pretty good thing going for them, and absent SEC or Big Ten invites, are not going to bail. The NCAA has made it very hard for schools to form completely new Conferences, so the chance of a complete breakaway is minimal at best.

Here's a tidbit for you. In August, it was announced that an unidentified Mexican school (which happens to be one of the Universities in Monterrey) had sought out the NCAA to start on the road to becoming an NCAA member.

Now wouldn't the WAC love that?

The WAC isn't a Division II Conference (yet.)

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You folks are forgetting a few things.

Firstly, you want to turn the ACC on its head and into C-USA (if I'm the Big East, that's what I would do) - go after Virginia and Maryland. Secondly this is just about moving pegs around. If you want to talk real expansion, how many schools gave up football since say the mid 70's? University of Tampa (Freddie Solomon's school - the former Dolphins receiver), Wichita State, etc. that given the right set of circumstances, would love to get back in the game? At one time NYU had a prominent program (and yes there is talk about starting a football program). There is no shortage of schools that, if given the money and proper economic circumstances, would consider starting a program or making a jump. Georgetown, St. Johns, etc. Could you imagine a Big East with NYU and St. Johns both playing at Citifield?

Even if the ACC goes to 16 and the Big East is killed off, there is no guarantee the ACC will stay the ACC. Remember, it was Brigham Young who led the WAC breakaway schools to start the Mountain West. And, guess what? They left. Who is to say that Clemson, Florida State and a few others don't leave to form their own conference? (a point of reference would be how companies became huge conglomerates through mergers in the 80s and how "thin" is the new "in").

And speaking of West Virginia, I happen to know Oliver Luck and have been unfortunate to have had to deal with him several times. He is a scumbag.

Here's a tidbit for you. In August, it was announced that an unidentified Mexican school (which happens to be one of the Universities in Monterrey) had sought out the NCAA to start on the road to becoming an NCAA member.

Now wouldn't the WAC love that?

And people thought I was crazy because I said UCF should join the ACC... Whatever you're smoking should either be illegal, or distributed amongst the populace so we may forever live in imaginary harmony, along with the ghost of John Lennon and pink elephants genies.

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Could you imagine a Big East with NYU and St. Johns both playing at Citifield?

NYU? NYU? NYU???

Why not just have the whole Ivy League and LIU-Brooklyn join them in the Big East while we're at it considering we're thinking 1940's here :wacko:

I was gonna respond to the whole "Why didn't the Big East ask Penn State to join?" argument, which clearly proves you don't know the history of the Big East and Joe Pa, then you hit us with this. And you're completely failing to bring up the obstacles Title IX brings with football programs. The Big East had their chance to make an impact, and they failed. Simple as that

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I don't see Boise State declining and invite to the Big East... at least based on athletic reasons. They may decline because of travel expenses since they are so far west. For Boise, it looks like a win-win. They get into a conference with an AQ Bid that is by far, the worst football conference left in the nation. Than can, probably will, and should win the Big East fairly easily, thus giving them a legitimate shot at a National Title game. If it doesn't pan out and they are still getting "disrespected," it could set them up for a move to the PAC 12 (once they decide to expand further) or the Big XII (if they are still around in 3-5 years.

Now, even if Boise State has caught lightning in a bottle the last 4-5 years with the current recruiting class they have (may not get solid recruits after the seniors leave), then jumping to a "major" conference will only help their recruiting, as well as reserve their place in an AQ Conference in case they don't have as good of recruiting classes in the future. It still gives them a chance to win the Big East with a down year/team.

Playing in the Big East will increase their revenue from football, as well. Yes, their stadium is fairly small, but with the improvements and future improvements (which I'm sure are in the works), the capacity issue will be less relevant.

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1. I actually think once Navy and Air Force officially join, Army will think about it again...the main reason West Point told the Big East to get lost before was because the other two service academies hadn't joined yet...Army and Navy seem like the ultimate package deal to me. (Plus that would make 12, enough for that ever-important Championship Game)

2. Wonder how Conference USA is gonna rebuild...there has been talk of Appalachian State moving up to D1 to join once C-USA gets raided.

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The ACC has stability.

No it doesn't.

If it had stability, why would they go and raise the exit fee to $20m? Obviously the folks in ACC-ville are paranoid of the B1G raiding Maryland (though I have no idea why they'd go after a basketball school with an Athletic Department that's flat broke) and the SEC raiding Clemson and/or Florida State.

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The ACC has stability.

No it doesn't.

If it had stability, why would they go and raise the exit fee to $20m? Obviously the folks in ACC-ville are paranoid of the B1G raiding Maryland (though I have no idea why they'd go after a basketball school with an Athletic Department that's flat broke) and the SEC raiding Clemson and/or Florida State.

Maryland = Baltimore + Washington DC

I would say the ACC is stable. I'm not sure how you can say its NOT stable. I think increasing the buyout fee increases the stability of the conference. If it only cost a few mill to hop ship, more schools probably would.

Looking at it from a football stand point, they have Clemson, NC State, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, and Virginia Tech. Within the next 3 years, Pitt will also be a member.

When it comes to basketball (which can't be ignored since it is a revenue-generating sports), they have Duke, North Carolina, Florida State, Miami, Maryland, and Wake Forest. Within the next 3 years, Pitt and Syracuse will also be members.

I wouldn't put them on the same plane as the B1G or SEC when it comes to stability, but they are far from NOT being stable. Yes, there is potential of the B1G and SEC plucking a few more members (Maryland to the B1G, 2 of the following: Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, Virginia, Virginia Tech to the SEC). Again, they may not be sitting on bedrock, but they are damn close.

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So why don't you tell me about Jo Pa and the Big East?

NYU killed all sports because of betting scandals. NYU-CCNY was a big deal at the Garden. NYU played a national football schedule. NYU has a huge alumni base. NYU is one of the richest schools in the country. If they wanted to start a football program with an eye on joining a conference such as the Big East, or g-d forbid, the ACC, they could do it.

The ACC is an utter joke to me. They bought their stability by raiding conferences because they could grow organically (that means adding schools from lower conferences like East Carolina).

I'm sure if Florida State wanted to create a conference it could, given their name. I wouldn't be so sure a 14-team or 16-team ACC lasts.

If any Mexican school makes it into the NCAA, others are sure to follow. That opens a huge media market for the likes of ESPN and Fox.

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Maryland = Baltimore + Washington DC

Maryland = a basketball school in a market that already has Georgetown as direct competition and the Big Five just two hours north of them. They also have to compete with the CAA schools, who grow in profile every year (Mason is 30 minutes away, VCU is two hours away). Gary Williams brought the basketball program back to relevance but if Mark Turgeon can't take the Terps to the NCAA Tournament within two or three years, they may fall back into the dregs of irrelevance.

Maryland football is already irrelevant. Ralph Friedgen took them to five bowl wins in ten years and won National Coach of the Year in 2002. Not even that could spur season ticket sales in a market that, as you said, is right between the stomping grounds of the Redskins and Ravens - two of the more passionate and devoted fan bases in the NFL.

The ACC is a league built around the Carolinas. Maryland is to the ACC what Arkansas was to the old SWC. Their biggest rivals in football play in different conferences (Penn State, West Virginia) and their biggest rival in basketball was more about Gary Williams facing off against Mike Krzyzewski than it was really about Maryland and Duke.

What I could see happening is that the three Northern schools (BC, Cuse, Pitt) realize that the ACC is, has been, and always will be about the five schools in the Carolinas. After experiencing a couple seasons in the ACC, they might break off and find some other northeastern schools to band with after realizing that no matter how much noise they make, they will always be seen as inferior to any school south of Virginia Tech. Or they all get gobbled up by the B1G.

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The ACC has stability.

No it doesn't.

If it had stability, why would they go and raise the exit fee to $20m? Obviously the folks in ACC-ville are paranoid of the B1G raiding Maryland (though I have no idea why they'd go after a basketball school with an Athletic Department that's flat broke) and the SEC raiding Clemson and/or Florida State.

Because only the SEC and B1G have the ability to poach the ACC. The Big East and Big 12 have no chance at poaching. Any conference could take any Big East school. Not untouchable but pretty stable.

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So why don't you tell me about Jo Pa and the Big East?

NYU killed all sports because of betting scandals. NYU-CCNY was a big deal at the Garden. NYU played a national football schedule. NYU has a huge alumni base. NYU is one of the richest schools in the country. If they wanted to start a football program with an eye on joining a conference such as the Big East, or g-d forbid, the ACC, they could do it.

1. The Big East actively pursued Penn State at the time of the inception of the conference. However, Paterno rejected the idea (remember the Big East was built primarily as a basketball conference) and eventually sent Penn State over to the Big Ten.

2. NYU is D-3 in every sport that they even have, which is arguably one of the smallest athletic programs in D-3. By that logic, rich schools such as Johns Hopkins, Tufts, MIT, and whathaveyou should be playing D-1 FBS football as well.

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So why don't you tell me about Jo Pa and the Big East?

NYU killed all sports because of betting scandals. NYU-CCNY was a big deal at the Garden. NYU played a national football schedule. NYU has a huge alumni base. NYU is one of the richest schools in the country. If they wanted to start a football program with an eye on joining a conference such as the Big East, or g-d forbid, the ACC, they could do it.

The ACC is an utter joke to me. They bought their stability by raiding conferences because they could grow organically (that means adding schools from lower conferences like East Carolina).

I'm sure if Florida State wanted to create a conference it could, given their name. I wouldn't be so sure a 14-team or 16-team ACC lasts.

If any Mexican school makes it into the NCAA, others are sure to follow. That opens a huge media market for the likes of ESPN and Fox.

Wow, you actually made a good point. Yes, if NYU wanted to create a D1 football program, while it wouldn't happen over night, they probably could. However there are two major roadblocks in the way.

1. Academics: NYU has incredibly high academic standards, and if they wanted to compete, they would have to lower their standards, and even then, they would be competing with other high academic schools like Stanford, Duke, and the Ivy League schools. I don't think that's something NYU would want to do.

2. They don't need to start a football program. LIke you said, they're one of the richest schools in the nation. You don't fix it if it's not broken.

Bottom line is NYU could start a football program, but they won't.

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Well, I don't think NYU would have to compete for athletes all that hard. There happens to be a huge and deep reservior of talent here in the City alone. Does NYU have high academic standards? Sure. They say its graduate business program is top 10. I graduated from it. I disagree. Top 20 maybe. Not top 10.

Problem is a sutiable stadium. NYU hoped to build one on the Brooklyn side of the East River at one point. If a soccer stadium came to be for say an MLS expansion team (think Cosmos, think outside of CitiField), that's one possibility.

I also did some digging. The 1941 NYU football schedule:

9/22 scrimmage Temple

9/27 W 25-7 PMC (OF) 6,000

10/4 W 6-0 at Lafayette 7,000

10/11 L 7-49 Texas A&M (YS) 18,000

10/18 L 0-31 Syracuse (YS) 10,000

10/25 L 0-13 at Holy Cross 10,000

10/31 L 0-42 Penn State (Polo Grounds) (n) 10,691

11/8 L 0-26 Missouri (YS) 6,700

11/15 L 0-45 Tulane (YS) 8,100

11/29 L 9-30 Fordham (YS) 31,000

They stunk but look - Tex A & M, 'Cuse, Penn State......

Who is to say they can't or won't do it again?

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Memphis would actually make a lot of SEC hoops coaches happy, as it would allow them to have access into one of college hoops' most fertile recruiting grounds.

Too bad their football program is an absolute joke.

Ummm....doesn't the SEC already HAVE two teams in Tennessee? To go with the two in Mississippi and the one in Arkansas? I think the SEC pretty much has Memphis covered. Especially now that Calipari is gone.

UT is located in Knoxville - a good six-hour drive from Memphis (and in a different time zone). Vandy is located in Nashville, which is three hours away. Fayetteville (Arkansas) is five hours away, at least. Oxford (Ole Miss) is a good seven hours from Memphis, and Starkville (Miss State) is about a three-hour trip. None of those locations "cover" Memphis by any means, and trying to tell recruits that they'd be "close to home" or that their parents would be able to watch them play would be ludicrous.

When it comes to college hoops, Memphis exists by itself. They have been yearning for an opportunity to join a conference like the Big East to renew their rivalries with teams like Louisville and Cincinnati. But their football program has been what has been holding them back. Their stadium is by far the worst in D-1 FBS, and the product they put on the field isn't much better. And the fact that they fired the only coach to take them to a bowl since 1971 after one bad season only adds to the perception that they have a Napoleon complex when it comes to football.

Memphis basketball is big in Memphis.

Memphis football in not.

I've been to Memphis numerous times in the last couple years. Despite having a Conference-USA school down the street, the SEC (mainly Tennessee and Ole Miss) is king in Memphis for football. Tennessee has a medical school there, and in general, UT football is #1 in every Tennessee city, Nashville included.

An honest question for all the Mizzou fans out there:

Do you really believe your team can be competitive in football playing in the SEC West East?

FYP

Has it been confirmed that they'll be playing in the East?

Even so, they'll have to compete with the likes of Georgia, South Carolina and Florida on a yearly basis. Those might not be on the level of LSU, Alabama or Arkansas but they are still definitely not teams that will lay down for Mizzou by any means.

How many conference/national championships was Missouri winning in the Big XII?

Missouri isn't going to the SEC because they believe they'll contend better (right away, that is). They're going because it's a better solution for them long-term, as well as the SEC being an equal-in-revenue-sharing conference and getting away from the Texas-slanted Big XII.

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Memphis would actually make a lot of SEC hoops coaches happy, as it would allow them to have access into one of college hoops' most fertile recruiting grounds.

Too bad their football program is an absolute joke.

Ummm....doesn't the SEC already HAVE two teams in Tennessee? To go with the two in Mississippi and the one in Arkansas? I think the SEC pretty much has Memphis covered. Especially now that Calipari is gone.

UT is located in Knoxville - a good six-hour drive from Memphis (and in a different time zone). Vandy is located in Nashville, which is three hours away. Fayetteville (Arkansas) is five hours away, at least. Oxford (Ole Miss) is a good seven hours from Memphis, and Starkville (Miss State) is about a three-hour trip. None of those locations "cover" Memphis by any means, and trying to tell recruits that they'd be "close to home" or that their parents would be able to watch them play would be ludicrous.

When it comes to college hoops, Memphis exists by itself. They have been yearning for an opportunity to join a conference like the Big East to renew their rivalries with teams like Louisville and Cincinnati. But their football program has been what has been holding them back. Their stadium is by far the worst in D-1 FBS, and the product they put on the field isn't much better. And the fact that they fired the only coach to take them to a bowl since 1971 after one bad season only adds to the perception that they have a Napoleon complex when it comes to football.

Memphis basketball is big in Memphis.

Memphis football in not.

I've been to Memphis numerous times in the last couple years. Despite having a Conference-USA school down the street, the SEC (mainly Tennessee and Ole Miss) is king in Memphis for football. Tennessee has a medical school there, and in general, UT football is #1 in every Tennessee city, Nashville included.

An honest question for all the Mizzou fans out there:

Do you really believe your team can be competitive in football playing in the SEC West East?

FYP

Has it been confirmed that they'll be playing in the East?

Even so, they'll have to compete with the likes of Georgia, South Carolina and Florida on a yearly basis. Those might not be on the level of LSU, Alabama or Arkansas but they are still definitely not teams that will lay down for Mizzou by any means.

How many conference/national championships was Missouri winning in the Big XII?

Missouri isn't going to the SEC because they believe they'll contend better (right away, that is). They're going because it's a better solution for them long-term, as well as the SEC being an equal-in-revenue-sharing conference and getting away from the Texas-slanted Big XII.

Just because Mizzou wont compete today, doesn't mean they wont compete tomorrow. If you would have told someone in the 80's that Florida would be a force, they would laugh.

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