Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[Lights Out]

If Boise's academics are that far below PAC-10 standards, then please explain how they're already a member of the PAC-10 in wrestling. Yes, I realize it's a non-revenue sport, but if the PAC-10 is really that strict about academics, schools like Boise State would be left out in every sport, revenue or non-revenue, right?

Of course, that reminds me of how stupid it is for schools to be able to join a conference for only one sport. If I ran the NCAA, there would be an "all or nothing" rule in regards to that - either take all the schools' sports, or take none of them at all. Cherry-picking just creates needless complications and confusion.

[OUSooners]

They're joining in basketball too?

[Gary]

But if i'm a parent looking for my child to go to a school and academics are everything, i'd at least want to go to a school where it has some high standards. Only %10 of the students go to the school for athletics in the first place. Alot of the money that is generated from football, basketball, football etc. eventually goes towards academics in a major way. It may sound like BS to you, but for the smaller schools in these conferences, they go towards academics more than they do athletics. Plus I do know that Boise State is in the Pac-10 when it comes to wrestling. Arizona State has a fine history of wrestling, I follow it. I am also very aware that UC Davis, UC Bakersfield, Cal Poly and Fullerton are part of the Wrestling outfit they call the Pac-10.

[The_Admiral]

If Boise's academics are that far below PAC-10 standards, then please explain how they're already a member of the PAC-10 in wrestling. Yes, I realize it's a non-revenue sport, but if the PAC-10 is really that strict about academics, schools like Boise State would be left out in every sport, revenue or non-revenue, right?

Of course, that reminds me of how stupid it is for schools to be able to join a conference for only one sport. If I ran the NCAA, there would be an "all or nothing" rule in regards to that - either take all the schools' sports, or take none of them at all. Cherry-picking just creates needless complications and confusion.

if i'm a parent looking for my child to go to a school and academics are everything, i'd at least want to go to a school where it has some high standards. [boilerplate NCAA status quo boosterism ensues]

If academics are everything, you don't send your child to a flagship state university with thousands upon thousands of undergraduates who are sent down the line to finance graduate studies.

[The_Admiral]

We were going to send Susie to some small private school nobody's ever heard of, but when we found out Arizona State belonged to a conference that didn't let Boise State join in any revenue-generating reindeer games, the decision was easy. Now she's majoring in having orange skin. Praisèd be the academic excellence of the Pac-10.

[Lights Out]

I get that the athletics money does eventually trickle down to academics, but even with weaker academics, Boise State would be a natural fit for the PAC-10 and a win-win for both the school and the conference. Boise State is right there in PAC-10 country, they already have a rivalry going with Oregon, they draw big ratings, wrestling is already in the PAC-10 and they have a consistently winning football program (plus a vastly-improving basketball program), which increases the prestige of the PAC-10.

Plus, the school gets an even bigger stage in an AQ conference, and since college athletics can be seen as a form of advertising for universities, Boise can use it to advertise more, get more students to come, and since PAC-10 money is a much bigger amount than WAC money, more money can eventually trickle down to the school's academics.

Bottom line is, if the PAC-10 really wanted Boise State, they could make it work without even considering academics, despite their academic chest-thumping. Besides, every FBS school can't be Stanford or Vanderbilt.

[Gary]

I get that the athletics money does eventually trickle down to academics, but even with weaker academics, Boise State would be a natural fit for the PAC-10 and a win-win for both the school and the conference. Boise State is right there in PAC-10 country, they already have a rivalry going with Oregon, they draw big ratings, wrestling is already in the PAC-10 and they have a consistently winning football program (plus a vastly-improving basketball program), which increases the prestige of the PAC-10.

Plus, the school gets an even bigger stage in an AQ conference, and since college athletics can be seen as a form of advertising for universities, Boise can use it to advertise more, get more students to come, and since PAC-10 money is a much bigger amount than WAC money, more money can eventually trickle down to the school's academics.

Bottom line is, if the PAC-10 really wanted Boise State, they could make it work without even considering academics, despite their academic chest-thumping. Besides, every FBS school can't be Stanford or Vanderbilt.

Think about it like this, I never once said Boise State couldn't be part of the big boy program. I'm just telling you that without academics you can't have athletics and vice versa. This was what i'm trying to get at.

We were going to send Susie to some small private school nobody's ever heard of, but when we found out Arizona State belonged to a conference that didn't let Boise State join in any revenue-generating reindeer games, the decision was easy. Now she's majoring in having orange skin. Praisèd be the academic excellence of the Pac-10.

Wow really admiral? Arizona State isn't just known to be a party school, but some of the best faculties for teachers, PR associates and journalism, not to mention Architecture. I'm making a point that what makes this go round is that schools value their academics more than they do their athletics, but to make things go clockwork is the fact the academics come first for so many schools than they do athletics.

[McCall]

Kudos to the Pac-10 for having their member meet a certain academic standard and don't just go adding any school... like the Big East is doing. I swear, if Hawaii runs off 4 seasons of BCS to 10 finishes, they'll get a Big East invite. They become the membership sluts of NCAA landscape. If NOLA didn't already have it claimed, you could rename it the Big Easy conference.

[dfwabel]

I get that the athletics money does eventually trickle down to academics, but even with weaker academics, Boise State would be a natural fit for the PAC-10 and a win-win for both the school and the conference. Boise State is right there in PAC-10 country, they already have a rivalry going with Oregon, they draw big ratings, wrestling is already in the PAC-10 and they have a consistently winning football program (plus a vastly-improving basketball program), which increases the prestige of the PAC-10.

Plus, the school gets an even bigger stage in an AQ conference, and since college athletics can be seen as a form of advertising for universities, Boise can use it to advertise more, get more students to come, and since PAC-10 money is a much bigger amount than WAC money, more money can eventually trickle down to the school's academics.

Bottom line is, if the PAC-10 really wanted Boise State, they could make it work without even considering academics, despite their academic chest-thumping. Besides, every FBS school can't be Stanford or Vanderbilt.

Boise State only gives out terminal degrees in just four programs. That is not much in common with the 12 member schools of the Pac-12. Their endowment is three times smaller than any Pac-12 school.

[RyanMcD29]

TCU makes the Big East a 17 team basketball conference. Oh god. So see you later, Depaul?

I like the move for football, but for all the other sports I can see this being a headache with traveling. Also in response to McCall, what did you expect the Big East to do with academic schools? Raid the Ivy and Patriot Leagues? Tell Buffalo to come on board? Cause that's all the northeast has left unless the BE begs BC to come back and Villanova non-withstanding. TCU's still at least got good academics (they slaughter Cincy and Louisville at it) plus they've got a better all around athletic program than most mid majors. Having a school in Texas is still not the best idea, though, and would've maybe preferred getting the service academies on board or something to keep it regional, but in the end TCU is a lot better than the entire Big Least with football (Big Beast hoops, not so much, but football is the end all be all in college athletics so who am I to argue)

All this academic talk aside, I'd say it's a decent move for the Big East. That being said, I'm still skeptical about the future of the Big East.

Did I mention 17 freakin' teams in basketball?

[illwauk]

I wonder... do the non-football members of the Big East honestly think its more worth it to stay in a bloated league that only stands to become even more massive rather than breaking off into their own league? I'm actually surprised its stayed intact as long as it has.

[rams80]

I wonder... do the non-football members of the Big East honestly think its more worth it to stay in a bloated league that only stands to become even more massive rather than breaking off into their own league? I'm actually surprised its stayed intact as long as it has.

Well, one of the reasons they stick around from what I understand is that THEY call the shots in the Big East Conference. Not the football schools.

[Punch]

TCU makes the Big East a 17 team basketball conference. Oh god. So see you later, Depaul?

Did I mention 17 freakin' teams in basketball?

I'm curious about this. How is the Big East Basketball Tourney going to work out, now? Top 3 teams get byes to the semifinals, other 14 teams play 13 round-robin games each to decide the #4 seed in the semis?

Bonus points to anyone who can name all 17 Big East teams. I'm convinced at least 5 of those teams are just in the conference for the sake of having a large conference.

[The_Admiral]

I could name them all if I set them to the tune of a Gilbert & Sullivan song.

[Seadragon76]

TCU makes the Big East a 17 team basketball conference. Oh god. So see you later, Depaul?

Did I mention 17 freakin' teams in basketball?

I'm curious about this. How is the Big East Basketball Tourney going to work out, now? Top 3 teams get byes to the semifinals, other 14 teams play 13 round-robin games each to decide the #4 seed in the semis?

Bonus points to anyone who can name all 17 Big East teams. I'm convinced at least 5 of those teams are just in the conference for the sake of having a large conference.

All 17 teams, you say?

UConn

Cincinnati

DePaul

Georgetown

Louisville

Marquette

Notre Dame

Pittsburgh

Providence

Rutgers

St. John's (New York)

Seton Hall

South Florida

Syracuse

Texas Christian (2012-2013)

Villanova

West Virginia

[omnivore]

If Boise's academics are that far below PAC-10 standards, then please explain how they're already a member of the PAC-10 in wrestling. Yes, I realize it's a non-revenue sport, but if the PAC-10 is really that strict about academics, schools like Boise State would be left out in every sport, revenue or non-revenue, right?

Of course, that reminds me of how stupid it is for schools to be able to join a conference for only one sport. If I ran the NCAA, there would be an "all or nothing" rule in regards to that - either take all the schools' sports, or take none of them at all. Cherry-picking just creates needless complications and confusion.

They are associate members in wrestling. This isn't unusual in Olympic sports and it doesn't have anything to do with anything. People miss the point when they try to understand the academic dynamics of these decisions. If you've never worked in the higher levels of university administration, it can be hard to wrap your mind around. But understand it as more corporate than anything else. It's not about wins and losses at the end of the day, it's about cache, competitiveness and associating with schools that you consider to be your peer. No respectable academic would consider Boise State on par with any of the schools in the Pac-12 and an upstart football program changes little.

I wonder... do the non-football members of the Big East honestly think its more worth it to stay in a bloated league that only stands to become even more massive rather than breaking off into their own league? I'm actually surprised its stayed intact as long as it has.

Yes. It's entirely worth the $$$$ to associate with the most powerful basketball league in the country rather than breaking off and forming the Little Sisters of the Poor with Notre Dame as an independent in football conference simply because we are catholic non-football playing schools conference.

What would be better? Joining the Missouri Valley or the MAAC or America East or Atlantic 10 (with 14 teams)?

[omnivore]

TCU makes the Big East a 17 team basketball conference. Oh god. So see you later, Depaul?

Did I mention 17 freakin' teams in basketball?

I'm curious about this. How is the Big East Basketball Tourney going to work out, now? Top 3 teams get byes to the semifinals, other 14 teams play 13 round-robin games each to decide the #4 seed in the semis?

Bonus points to anyone who can name all 17 Big East teams. I'm convinced at least 5 of those teams are just in the conference for the sake of having a large conference.

They will add an 18th team by the time this is an issue and there is talk of divisional alignment finally once they do this. It's not that big a deal, pro league handle it fine...the Big East will find a way to make it work as their alignment is really just akin to a pro league setup at this point given the major markets they'll represented in.

[The_Admiral]

I am the very model of a modern major conference

I've quite a perfect radius, diameter, circumference

I know all of my members whether Catholic or secular

I'll name them alphabetically in manners most spectacular:

Cincinnati sounds deceptively Mediterranean

In Hartford there plays UConn and likewise they're not Canadian

DePaul is nominally part but cannot ever win a game

In Washington is Georgetown where Pat Ewing is their claim to fame

Use three beats to say "Louisville" or else the rhythm goes to hell

And there's Marquette who still don't know just what they want to call themselves

Though Notre Dame's athletics still just are not what they used to be

At least they're not in Pittsburgh where Dave Wannstedt runs the football team

In Providence, Rhode Island they do not produce too many pros

At Rutgers they are known for having several nappy-headed hos

St. John's once had some crazy-looking sublimated uniforms

And Seton Hall is where the Pirates come at you in waves and swarms

South Florida's in Tampa which is really not that south at all

At Syracuse the roof inflates like a balloon or basketball

Then take the Main Line out to Villanova, hope the ride's not long

Then go to West Virginia while your toothless sister sucks your dong

So there you have a round sixteen but TCU just spoiled that

They're all the way in Texas, and they surely wear retarded hats

But rednecks they may be our fair Big East is full of tolerance,

That's why we are the model of a modern major conference.

[Sodboy13]

Oh my Christ. Can I get a second for PoTD?

[RyanMcD29]

I am the very model of a modern major conference

I've quite a perfect radius, diameter, circumference

I know all of my members whether Catholic or secular

I'll name them alphabetically in manners most spectacular:

Cincinnati sounds deceptively Mediterranean

In Hartford there plays UConn and likewise they're not Canadian

DePaul is nominally part but cannot ever win a game

In Washington is Georgetown where Pat Ewing is their claim to fame

Use three beats to say "Louisville" or else the rhythm goes to hell

And there's Marquette who still don't know just what they want to call themselves

Though Notre Dame's athletics still just are not what they used to be

At least they're not in Pittsburgh where Dave Wannstedt runs the football team

In Providence, Rhode Island they do not produce too many pros

At Rutgers they are known for having several nappy-headed hos

St. John's once had some crazy-looking sublimated uniforms

And Seton Hall is where the Pirates come at you in waves and swarms

South Florida's in Tampa which is really not that south at all

At Syracuse the roof inflates like a balloon or basketball

Then take the Main Line out to Villanova, hope the ride's not long

Then go to West Virginia while your toothless sister sucks your dong

So there you have a round sixteen but TCU just spoiled that

They're all the way in Texas, and they surely wear retarded hats

But rednecks they may be our fair Big East is full of tolerance,

That's why we are the model of a modern major conference.

Win. I'll throw my hat in to PoTD nominations for this post