Kurt Warner Retires...

[infrared41]

If you thought I was calling you a liar, I am sorry. But I was not calling you a liar. To explain this, I will summarize our entire discussion.

1. You said Kurt Warner would not make the HOF.

2. I replied that your opinion is in the minority, that most pundits think he is.

3. You said that I must not be hearing the same pundits as you. You also wrote about your resume.

4. In referring to your resume, I wrote "If that's true", which is simply me saying "I have no way of knowing if that's true or not, but let's assume it is". In no way was I calling you a liar. I have no idea or opinion as to whether you are who you say you are.

In that same post, I specified that by "pundits", I am referring to those pundits who have played or are playing NFL football. I then asked you if you had heard "very many" NFL pundits say that Kurt is not HOF material.

5/ You said "Yes". I accepted that answer and asked you if you had heard as many say that as those who say he is. I then said I doubt it. You will notice that the "I doubt it" was not in response to your "yes" answer, but was in fact a prediction of the way you would answer the question "As many as you've heard say he is a future HOFer?".

No "liar" accusation have I made against you.

Fair enough. I misunderstood and I apologize. No hard feelings on my end. We got off to a rough start. What do you say we try this again?

For what it's worth, I don't want you to get the wrong impression on how I view Kurt Warner. I really like him as a player. His story is one of the better rags to riches stories in sports. That said, I just wonder if his story leads people to be less critical when they judge his accomplishments. Warner had a really good NFL career. I just don't think it's a hall of fame career.

[rams80]

Kurt Warner helped turn chicken into chicken soup on two teams. He was only as good as the coach on the other.

and his Post season stats speak for themselves. HOF....Yep

He also didn't win a start for 2 years in the middle of his career. That also speaks for itself.

[rams80]

Terrell Davis, Boomer Esiason, Mark Moseley (PK....I you not, a kicker was the 1982 NFL MVP), Ken Anderson, Brian Sipe, Bert Jones, Ken Stabler, Larry Brown, John Brodie, Roman Gabriel

Thats a longer list than I had expected. But doesn't include any 2 time winners (I am right there yes?) That has to put Warner close to automatic. Beyond the inconsistency of a few bad years, I am struggling to find a reason to be against Warner's inclusion. And even then, the fact that he came back from the mid career dip and lead the Cardinals (the Cardinals for goodness sake) to the Superbowl adds to his claims IMO.

The two MVPs are kind of fluky IMO. He had the stats, sure, but was he personally most critical to the Rams' success? For what its worth, Faulk was named the Rams MVP by the team those seasons, and was the NFL offensive player of the year as well.

I think of Warner being a 2 time MVP in the same way we think of Steve Nash as a 2 time MVP. The sort of "Really? Well, I guess he had good years those seasons, but he's sort of a liability on defense and was he the best player in the league for two years? *shrugs*" opinion.

[OldRamsFan]

Fair enough. I misunderstood and I apologize. No hard feelings on my end. We got off to a rough start. What do you say we try this again?

Thanks. No hard feelings here, either. Again, I am sorry for my part in the misunderstanding.

For what it's worth, I don't want you to get the wrong impression on how I view Kurt Warner. I really like him as a player. His story is one of the better rags to riches stories in sports. That said, I just wonder if his story leads people to be less critical when they judge his accomplishments. Warner had a really good NFL career. I just don't think it's a hall of fame career.

That's fine, we're all entitled to our opinions. We just differ. And for what it's worth, it's his total yardage, accuracy, QB rating and Super Bowl runs that cause me to disagree.

[OldRamsFan]

The two MVPs are kind of fluky IMO. He had the stats, sure, but was he personally most critical to the Rams' success? For what its worth, Faulk was named the Rams MVP by the team those seasons, and was the NFL offensive player of the year as well.

Faulk had an outstanding career, that's for sure. But so did Bruce. They were all critical to the Rams' success. However, I personally think that of the 3, Faulk was the most dispensable.

[Saintsfan]

My point on Warner's 2 MVP awards is not how merited they where, but that he won them, and not many guys have done that, and is the kind of thing that should be considered when considering a HoF case. I think to not get in after 2 MVP awards would be strange! Honestly I think you would have to say he was one of the 4 best QBs in his decade, and Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger will all get in surely, I would put Warner in that bracket as well.

[The_Admiral]

Quarterbacks of the Decade

1. Peyton Manning

2. Tom Brady

3. Ben Roethlisberger

4. Kyle Orton

[NJTank]

My point on Warner's 2 MVP awards is not how merited they where, but that he won them, and not many guys have done that, and is the kind of thing that should be considered when considering a HoF case. I think to not get in after 2 MVP awards would be strange! Honestly I think you would have to say he was one of the 4 best QBs in his decade, and Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger will all get in surely, I would put Warner in that bracket as well.

As of right now I would put Warner ahead of Roethlisberger, but that does not mean Big Ben will pass him in the end, I think he needs to do a little more individually, like win a MVP, pass for more yards, and Touchdowns, for the most part he has been on running offenses.

[rams80]

The two MVPs are kind of fluky IMO. He had the stats, sure, but was he personally most critical to the Rams' success? For what its worth, Faulk was named the Rams MVP by the team those seasons, and was the NFL offensive player of the year as well.

Faulk had an outstanding career, that's for sure. But so did Bruce. They were all critical to the Rams' success. However, I personally think that of the 3, Faulk was the most dispensable.

Yeah....and that's why the GSOT Rams started sucking wind whenever they faced a defensive game plan that focused on locking Faulk down. It happened in both Super Bowls, and in both Super Bowls the offense repeatedly sputtered and stalled.

[rams80]

My point on Warner's 2 MVP awards is not how merited they where, but that he won them, and not many guys have done that, and is the kind of thing that should be considered when considering a HoF case. I think to not get in after 2 MVP awards would be strange! Honestly I think you would have to say he was one of the 4 best QBs in his decade, and Brady, Peyton and Roethlisberger will all get in surely, I would put Warner in that bracket as well.

Season MVP awards should carry slightly more weight than Super Bowl MVP awards, but not that much more. They are indicators of popularity and media presence as much as they are indicators of actual skill, and say nothing about the constant, consistent excellence that a Hall of Famer needs throughout their career.

[rangerfan94]

Warner has some pretty impressive playoff/superbowl stats. Wether he gets in to the HOF or not,he was a class act. Humble and a pretty damn good role model.

[Gothamite]

Quarterbacks of the Decade

1. Peyton Manning

2. Tom Brady

3. Ben Roethlisberger

4. Kyle Orton

[BBTV]

Quarterbacks of the Decade

1. Peyton Manning

2. Tom Brady

3. Ben Roethlisberger

4. Kyle Orton

I'm guessing it's time to take your sarcasm detector in for a tune up.

[Gothamite]

It's out of whack because I know too many people in Denver trying to kid themselves into thinking he's better than he is.