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2010 LeBron James Sweepstakes


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And yet I continually read that Phil was only good because of the players he had with the Bulls and Lakers, despite the fact that those great players never won anything without him...

This Heat team evolved at a record pace. First, it wasn't fair to the NBA that LeBron got to team with "superstars" Wade and Bosh. Then it wasn't fair that LeBron had to play with old Wade and 3-point-shooting Bosh*. All in the span of one contract in which he never fell short of the Finals in a single year of it.

*who is now the highest paid player in the league?

EDIT: All that said, the more LeBron differentiates his path, which he is doing right now, the better to open up variables for the day that discussions about Jordan vs. Kobe vs. LeBron are actually valid.

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Leading Miami to 2 more titles and 4 more Finals appearances would help his legacy more than winning one in Cleveland.

To the NBA in general, sure. To the sports press, certainly.

But not necessarily to LeBron himself. That's clear from his piece in Sports Illustrated.

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Let's be real, the actual reason LeBron is hated so much is because Jordan and Kobe have huge cult followings among NBA fans and LeBron has been considered a threat to their favorite players' legacies from day one.

Wait... what? :wacko:

You gotta take what he says with a grain of salt... on a whole rim of salt... with a batch of margaritas.
Except that he's pretty much spot on. You can't even try to tell me a lot of the hate Lebron gets doesn't stem from the threat he is to Jordan and his top spot legacy.
I think almost no hate that LeBron gets is because he's a threat to Jordan's legacy. I think almost all of it comes from the fact that we've been TOLD he's a threat to Jordan's legacy literally since he was in high school. People tend to gag when they are force-fed. Maybe Bulls or Lakers fans hate because of the chance their favorite player will be overshadowed, but I generally think any hate is gag reflex hate. Fans are normally pretty excited to see records broken, barring a Barry-Bonds-type situation.
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Leading Miami to 2 more titles and 4 more Finals appearances would help his legacy more than winning one in Cleveland.

To the NBA in general, sure. To the sports press, certainly.

But not necessarily to LeBron himself. That's clear from his piece in Sports Illustrated.

I 100% disagree. If LeBron would have maybe won 5-7 Championships in Miami, then I would say that overshadows 1 in Cleveland. But the story line is just too much to ignore. The local kid, prodigy, drafted by his hometown/area team. Brings the team from cellar dweller to Championship contender every year. A City who has longing for a title since 1964, etc. etc. etc. Him returning just adds another layer to it. Again, had Miami been 4 for 4 in the Finals, that may be different.

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Let's be real, the actual reason LeBron is hated so much is because Jordan and Kobe have huge cult followings among NBA fans and LeBron has been considered a threat to their favorite players' legacies from day one.

Wait... what? :wacko:

You gotta take what he says with a grain of salt... on a whole rim of salt... with a batch of margaritas.

Except that he's pretty much spot on. You can't even try to tell me a lot of the hate Lebron gets doesn't stem from the threat he is to Jordan and his top spot legacy.

Yeah I kind of agree with Lights Out on this one. I know plenty of people who hate LeBron because of their love of MJ, and they even openly say so. I know a family of 6 brothers, all 6 of them and their dad openly hate (and despise) LeBron because they were/are such big Michael fans. In fact they hate Kobe too for the same reason.

I mean, maybe Lights Out isn't 100% right but some of your reactions have been overreactions to say the least. It's not that far-fetched of a statement, it's not like he's over here saying that Darius Songalia is the best player in the NBA or anything like that.

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Let's be real, the actual reason LeBron is hated so much is because Jordan and Kobe have huge cult followings among NBA fans and LeBron has been considered a threat to their favorite players' legacies from day one.

Wait... what? :wacko:

Deadspin is generally focused on players over owners, young over old, and flexibility over conservatism. If there's something that challenges popularly accepted notions of how things should be, Deadspin is generally on board with that. There's also a bit of contrariness and dick pics for good measure.

I get what LO is saying about LeBron being a threat to Jordan and Kobe fanboys, but I also think that's a bit of projection. I like James quite a bit, but in contrast to Jordan and Bryant, he went elsewhere to play with good talent, while those other guys had guys come to them. It also helps that Chicago and LA are nice places, while Cleveland is terrible.

At this point, I'm happy to watch LeBron do what he wants and just enjoy a great player in his prime.

I can't totally agree with this being "the actual reason" for the hate, but I certainly have some anecdotal evidence to suggest it's a factor. Particularly with Kobe's fanboys...Jordan's position is a little too secure. But my Kobe-loving friends (and I have a few) immediately flipped out and seemed to agree with his "not seven" statement...and were already pre-comparing Kobe's 5 great titles to LeBron's higher number of tainted titles. Again, that's just anecdotal, but I think there could be an element...they were all happy when he was toiling titleless in Cleveland.

As for Jordan and Kobe "letting other guys come to them", yeah, nobody was coming to LeBron. Those two were lucky to be playing in more cosmopolitan cities. That matters. James had to go out and find titles. He'd still be title-less had he stayed.

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Let's not pretend the Bulls lured in any big free agents. They got a retread Rodman at a time when other teams didn't want him because he was a headcase. Other than that, nobody was confusing Ron Harper and Luc Longley for the Super Friends in Miami. Jordan was certainly lucky to have arguably the most underrated players of all time (Pippen) get drafted by the Bulls, but Chicago being nice didn't do much for him.

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And yet I continually read that Phil was only good because of the players he had with the Bulls and Lakers, despite the fact that those great players never won anything without him...

Phil Jackson, at least as a coach, is the best there has ever been. As a kid who grew up watching the Celtics it pains me to say it, but he was even better than Auerbach.

Yes, he had superior (and arguably dominant) player talent in both Chicago and Los Angeles. But what the vast majority of so-called "basketball nuts" out there forget is that before he got to the NBA, he was winning CBA titles with 12 nobodys on team rosters. Not exactly a direct comparison, true, but if you look at some of his CBA coaching contemporaries of the time, you can easily see where he "had it" from the get-go.

I think almost no hate that LeBron gets is because he's a threat to Jordan's legacy.

Let's back up here. Is there anyone who looked at Michael Jordan in his prime and thought, "This guy's a threat to Bill Russell's legacy?" "This guy's a threat to Wilt Chamberlain's legacy?" Short answer: "No."

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If you want to cut down Phil for having star-studded teams, you have to do the same for Red, plus add in the fact that he regularly fleeced other teams in trades because the rest of the 1960s/1970s NBA seemed to believe it had to bend over and take it up the ass whenever the Boston Celtics came calling.

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How long do y'all think LeBron will get a pass for every year CLE doesn't win that first ring? He kinda covered himself by saying it's not about rings, it's about coming home, and said the Cavs aren't ready. That may be good for now because everyone in CLE is in love, but that will fade fast won't it?

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How long do y'all think LeBron will get a pass for every year CLE doesn't win that first ring? He kinda covered himself by saying it's not about rings, it's about coming home, and said the Cavs aren't ready. That may be good for now because everyone in CLE is in love, but that will fade fast won't it?

I don't think he will get that much backlash because 1) he already won twice, so the questions of whether or not he can possibly win are gone; and 2) he is no longer playing with the Big 2.5. The Heat deserved to be mocked for not winning the title this past year, but since Lebron will be just another great player on a team with some other good players, I don't think most fans or detractors will get on him about not winning again before 2017. I mean, unless he shoots 4/35 in a game 7 or something.

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How long do y'all think LeBron will get a pass for every year CLE doesn't win that first ring? He kinda covered himself by saying it's not about rings, it's about coming home, and said the Cavs aren't ready. That may be good for now because everyone in CLE is in love, but that will fade fast won't it?

I don't think he will get that much backlash because 1) he already won twice, so the questions of whether or not he can possibly win are gone; and 2) he is no longer playing with the Big 2.5. The Heat deserved to be mocked for not winning the title this past year, but since Lebron will be just another great player on a team with some other good players, I don't think most fans or detractors will get on him about not winning again before 2017. I mean, unless he shoots 4/35 in a game 7 or something.

I'm with you on it not being about his personal ring count. I'm directing it more towards CLE natives and their patience with "their" ring count, now that he is back. My guess is he bought himself a 3 year window before folks start questioning him.
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Leading Miami to 2 more titles and 4 more Finals appearances would help his legacy more than winning one in Cleveland.

To the NBA in general, sure. To the sports press, certainly.

But not necessarily to LeBron himself. That's clear from his piece in Sports Illustrated.

I 100% disagree. If LeBron would have maybe won 5-7 Championships in Miami, then I would say that overshadows 1 in Cleveland. But the story line is just too much to ignore. The local kid, prodigy, drafted by his hometown/area team. Brings the team from cellar dweller to Championship contender every year. A City who has longing for a title since 1964, etc. etc. etc. Him returning just adds another layer to it. Again, had Miami been 4 for 4 in the Finals, that may be different.

For you guys maybe but for me not really. It may be a bit of a cute story that LeBron won a title for Cleveland but in my eyes it is going to take more than 1 title to overshadow that Miami run.

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