2010 NFL Season

[Brass]

and gave away Maroney for like a 5th or 6th.

That's actually a complete steal for the Patriots. Maroney is garbage.

[WSU151]

and gave away Maroney for like a 5th or 6th.

That's actually a complete steal for the Patriots. Maroney is garbage.

You're absolutely right...but Maroney was a first or second round pick. Hopefully there's more value there than that. And I always thought it was horrible run blocking that did Maroney in New England, but apparently the Broncos suck at run blocking too.

[gingerbreadmann]

and gave away Maroney for like a 5th or 6th.

That's actually a complete steal for the Patriots. Maroney is garbage.

Truth. So was the Seymour trade, kinda. I am really liking that pick now, but we still don't have a good pass rush. But it's still better than a third-rounder (tsk, tsk).

I actually don't think the Patriots stubbornness has hurt them too much overall. Usually they are right in their evaluations such as Branch and Lawyer Milloy. (I still think they should have kept Branch, though). Vrabel maybe hurt last year and a little bit this year but Cassel gone hasn't hurt at all and a 2nd round pick isn't all that bad, especially from the Chiefs. I'm pretty disappointed (in both parties) that they can't get a Mankins deal done somehow, but even though I am not a big fan of pissing off players all the time, the never-give-in policy I don't think is what has kept them from winning a championship since '05. They have been extremely good and very close multiple times since then (notably '06 and '07) but it doesn't always work out. Maybe a few times it has hurt, but I would point to many things before the stubbornness as a cause of the recent failure to go all the way.

Back to Moss, I'm very interested to find out what went on behind the scenes for the Patriots feel the need to trade him. You know it wasn't about talent or anything, so it has to be some very unruly and detrimental behavior.

Edit: WSU, it doesn't matter now what round Maroney went in, as a player he is (surprisingly) worth a 5th(6th?) rounder to the Broncos. Yeah it was a bad pick, but nothing you can do now.

[WSU151]

That brings me to the next point. If he had played out the season here and then left in free agency, the Patriots would have received a third-round pick anyway (in 2012). Through things like the Seymour trade, this FO has shown a liking for the 2011 draft, but still, it seems impossible how the 2011 third round could be so significantly better than the 2012 third round, and I can't imagine the labor clusterf*k having any drastic effects on one of the two drafts. I could be wrong, but nothing so far has pointed to something huge like all 2012 draft picks being destroyed and the draft itself canceled. Therefore, by trading Moss, the Patriots are definitively stating this:

In their eyes, the amount that the value of a 2011 third-rounder is greater than that of a 2012 third-rounder is greater than the value of Randy Moss being on the Patriots from now until the end of this season.

And, assuming that the difference between the two picks is negligible (although possibly not exactly zero), that if he remained a member of the team, Randy Moss from now to the end of the season would have a negative overall effect on the success of the New England Patriots. Whom they end up taking in the draft and how they turn out is irrelevant because we are talking about the current value of the pick, not its value in ten years when that player has had a long career -- or not.

Think about that for a second. Apparently Randy Moss has more value to the New England Patriots when he is on another team than when he is on the Patriots. I don't know what that says about Randy Moss, or more importantly, what that says about the New England Patriots, but to me that is a completely absurd and indefensible statement. But the Pats just made it.

Just read that due to the "Faneca Rule", Randy would have only brought in a fifth-round compensatory pick in 2012 had he finished the year as a Patriot and left in the offseason. Randy has more than 10 years in the league...therefore, he's only worth a 5th. Strange but true.

[Audiodrama]

and gave away Maroney for like a 5th or 6th.

That's actually a complete steal for the Patriots. Maroney is garbage.

Truth. So was the Seymour trade, kinda.

The Seymour trade could result in the Patriots getting the #1 overall pick in the 2011 draft. That is most definitely a steal.

[Eye]

Moss is an overrated player, and would've inevitably brought drama to the team. He needs to be coddled, and Belichick really doesn't have time for that. Now if the Patriots end up choosing someone worthless in the draft (and let's face it, they haven't been picking many gems in the past few years), this is going to be looked at as a bad move. But if a good player comes out of it, every Patriots fan will be saying "Randy who?"

The problem with the " it we're the Patriots and bigger than any one player" approach is that, well, the Patriots haven't actually been able to fully replace some of the players they have shed since 2003. Which is why they haven't won a Super Bowl since that time either.

The Patriots won a Super Bowl after 2003, so I guess your logic does actually work.

Anyway, I like Randy Moss and would have liked him to stay a Patriot, but I guess what had to be done had to be done.

And by the way, does anyone else see this as a move for the Minnesota Vikings that makes not only this season Super Bowl victory or bust, but for the franchise staying in Minnesota as well seeing as how Favre and/or Moss may not be on the team after this season, coupled with the team's lease winding down in the Metrodome?

[gingerbreadmann]

That brings me to the next point. If he had played out the season here and then left in free agency, the Patriots would have received a third-round pick anyway (in 2012). Through things like the Seymour trade, this FO has shown a liking for the 2011 draft, but still, it seems impossible how the 2011 third round could be so significantly better than the 2012 third round, and I can't imagine the labor clusterf*k having any drastic effects on one of the two drafts. I could be wrong, but nothing so far has pointed to something huge like all 2012 draft picks being destroyed and the draft itself canceled. Therefore, by trading Moss, the Patriots are definitively stating this:

In their eyes, the amount that the value of a 2011 third-rounder is greater than that of a 2012 third-rounder is greater than the value of Randy Moss being on the Patriots from now until the end of this season.

And, assuming that the difference between the two picks is negligible (although possibly not exactly zero), that if he remained a member of the team, Randy Moss from now to the end of the season would have a negative overall effect on the success of the New England Patriots. Whom they end up taking in the draft and how they turn out is irrelevant because we are talking about the current value of the pick, not its value in ten years when that player has had a long career -- or not.

Think about that for a second. Apparently Randy Moss has more value to the New England Patriots when he is on another team than when he is on the Patriots. I don't know what that says about Randy Moss, or more importantly, what that says about the New England Patriots, but to me that is a completely absurd and indefensible statement. But the Pats just made it.

Just read that due to the "Faneca Rule", Randy would have only brought in a fifth-round compensatory pick in 2012 had he finished the year as a Patriot and left in the offseason. Randy has more than 10 years in the league...therefore, he's only worth a 5th. Strange but true.

Well that kind of screws up my thesis. I even read on NFL.com somewhere that it would have been a 3rd. Oh well. The main point remains.

The Seymour trade could result in the Patriots getting the #1 overall pick in the 2011 draft. That is most definitely a steal.

Yeah, remove the 'kinda.' I meant that not having Seymour actually still has a negative effect on the Patriots (though I admit I have no idea how Seymour is doing now), whereas not having Maroney doesn't.

The Patriots won a Super Bowl after 2003, so I guess your logic does actually work.

Anyway, I like Randy Moss and would have liked him to stay a Patriot, but I guess what had to be done had to be done.

And by the way, does anyone else see this as a move for the Minnesota Vikings that makes not only this season Super Bowl victory or bust, but for the franchise staying in Minnesota as well seeing as how Favre and/or Moss may not be on the team after this season, coupled with the team's lease winding down in the Metrodome?

Good point. I never got the impression, though, that the stadium situation threatened the team's future in Minnesota (not that I am too familiar with the subject). I think that might be a little drastic, but this is certainly a boom-or-bust season at this point from many perspectives for the Vikings. Although even if it wasn't, this trade would still be a no-brainer.

[gingerbreadmann]

DP

[rams80]

Moss is an overrated player, and would've inevitably brought drama to the team. He needs to be coddled, and Belichick really doesn't have time for that. Now if the Patriots end up choosing someone worthless in the draft (and let's face it, they haven't been picking many gems in the past few years), this is going to be looked at as a bad move. But if a good player comes out of it, every Patriots fan will be saying "Randy who?"

The problem with the " it we're the Patriots and bigger than any one player" approach is that, well, the Patriots haven't actually been able to fully replace some of the players they have shed since 2003. Which is why they haven't won a Super Bowl since that time either.

The Patriots won a Super Bowl after 2003, so I guess your logic does actually work.

Anyway, I like Randy Moss and would have liked him to stay a Patriot, but I guess what had to be done had to be done.

And by the way, does anyone else see this as a move for the Minnesota Vikings that makes not only this season Super Bowl victory or bust, but for the franchise staying in Minnesota as well seeing as how Favre and/or Moss may not be on the team after this season, coupled with the team's lease winding down in the Metrodome?

Thought it had been longer, my bad. Still, a 5 year title drought for a franchise that has had a Super Bowl or bust goal for that same period isn't exactly good and does suggest that some missteps have been made personnel wise.

For what its worth, unless Moss was doing something felonious or turning the rookies/youth against the coaching staff, I'm not sure how this helps the Patriots achieve that Super Bowl or bust goal this year or in the future. The Jets may yet self-destruct in some spectacular manner, but they are still tough enough to challenge New England in its own division, and there are enough good teams in the AFC North and South that you have to worry about getting past all of them.

-------------------------------------------

I don't see the Vikings going Super Bowl or bust as having an impact on the new stadium one way or the other. However, if they were contemplating a move, a youth movement would probably be better, so you have a good team in place when you move.

[FiddySicks]

Moss is an overrated player, and would've inevitably brought drama to the team. He needs to be coddled, and Belichick really doesn't have time for that. Now if the Patriots end up choosing someone worthless in the draft (and let's face it, they haven't been picking many gems in the past few years), this is going to be looked at as a bad move. But if a good player comes out of it, every Patriots fan will be saying "Randy who?"

The problem with the " it we're the Patriots and bigger than any one player" approach is that, well, the Patriots haven't actually been able to fully replace some of the players they have shed since 2003. Which is why they haven't won a Super Bowl since that time either.

The Patriots won a Super Bowl after 2003, so I guess your logic does actually work.

Anyway, I like Randy Moss and would have liked him to stay a Patriot, but I guess what had to be done had to be done.

And by the way, does anyone else see this as a move for the Minnesota Vikings that makes not only this season Super Bowl victory or bust, but for the franchise staying in Minnesota as well seeing as how Favre and/or Moss may not be on the team after this season, coupled with the team's lease winding down in the Metrodome?

I thought Moss had to agree to an extension with the Vikings before the trade went down.

I think the Pats are overrating their ability to win without Randy Moss. It'd be pretty funny to see the Pats lose the AFC title game because the receiver who takes over Moss' spot drops a game winning TD with no time left.

[Brendan]

My opinion on this trade is that its mostly about Belichick's ego. The guy is so arrogant that he traded one of the best receivers currently, and in history to prove a point. Prove to Moss that he doesn't need him, and that he's a better coach, than Moss is a receiver. Now the success of this trade for Minnesota all depends of Favre. With AD in the backfield Moss should get more single coverage than he's used to seeing, and as long as good ol Brett can start throwing to his own team then he and Moss will be best pals. Once Sidney Rice comes back this offense should be dangerous, but it all depends on Brett not sucking.

[Audiodrama]

And oh by the way, with this trade now being final, New England Patriots Dynasty: OVER.

Remind me again how many championships Moss won with that dynasty?

Tell the Jets to win something before their fans start talking trash about ending dynasties and such.

[mania]

And oh by the way, with this trade now being final, New England Patriots Dynasty: OVER.

Remind me again how many championships Moss won with that dynasty?

Tell the Jets to win something before their fans start talking trash about ending dynasties and such.

Nothing's funnier than over the top obnoxious Jets fans declaring themselves Super Bowl champions after 4 games.

Maybe the Jets should actually win a division before the talking should start.

[Lights Out]

Well, the Pats are done for this year. Moss got all the double coverage and all the defense's attention, and therefore allowed the offense to function like a well-oiled machine and Welker to come up big. Now, with Moss gone, Welker's going to get double-covered, Edelman's still too inexperienced to strike fear into the hearts of defenses, the running backs and Brady aren't getting any younger, and if the tepid offense they have left without Moss has a crappy game, they'll lose because the defense sucks too. This is the dumbest trade since, well, the Raiders trading away Moss for a fourth-round pick.

Does anyone else think this trade was primarily to save money that could then be put into Patriot Place? I don't think it's a coincidence that the organization has been less willing to spend since its opening.

[Lights Out]

New England Patriots Dynasty: OVER.

New York Jets Dynasty: NEVER.

[lightning25]

No excuses for the Jets now that the Patriots have suddenly become 'sellers'. Having already beaten the Pats and Dolphins head-to-head, anything short of an AFC East title would have to be considered a massive failure for Gang Green.

And oh by the way, with this trade now being final, New England Patriots Dynasty: OVER.

Did you even watch Monday Night Football?

The Pats won, 41-14, and Moss didn't have a single reception.

Not to mention that Taylor was hurt.

[RyanMcD29]

New England Patriots Dynasty: OVER.

New York Jets Dynasty: NEVER.

I'm not a brash Jet fan by any means but you gave me a lay-up

San Diego Chargers, Los Angeles Clippers, and Boise State Broncos Championships: NONE

(Though there is the Chargers AFL Championship, but Super Bowl-era, it's none.)

[TopCat]

Mike and Mike say that Vick should come to QB the Vikes next year. I say hell :censored:ing yeah! Your entire fantasy roster could be the Vikes and you'd win your league championship.

[arr1023]

yeah, i think this is a bad trade for the patriots. moss was a huge part of the offense even when he wasn't involved. i guess this means julio jones is coming with oakland's pick in this years draft. was hoping for a pass rusher the team desperately needs.

[Cujo]

No excuses for the Jets now that the Patriots have suddenly become 'sellers'. Having already beaten the Pats and Dolphins head-to-head, anything short of an AFC East title would have to be considered a massive failure for Gang Green.

And oh by the way, with this trade now being final, New England Patriots Dynasty: OVER.

Did you even watch Monday Night Football?

The Pats won, 41-14, and Moss didn't have a single reception.

Not to mention that Taylor was hurt.

With most of those points coming off of flukey special teams/defensinve scores -- ones that come few and far between for almost all teams. Aside from MNF, the Patriots got doubled-up by the Jets and barely got by that JV team from Buffalo. While they are currently 3-1, this definitely isn't the same Patriots team who won 3 Super Bowls, nor are they the juggernaut that started out 18-0 in '07. Brady has only Welker now on offense, no help at all running the ball, and addressing the defense has been ignored for too long. If the New England dynasty isn't dead yet, it sure as hell is on life support!