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Sammy Sosa upset that Cubs haven't retired No. 21


Gothamite

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I understand where you are coming from. But what the team should do and what they do are not always the same thing. Let's also not forget that the Cubs have done this sort of thing before. Ferguson Jenkins last wore the number 31 in 1983, but three years later the Cubs give it to rookie Greg Maddux. (Which I'm sure is why they broke the Hall of Fame rule for the Maddux deal)

So it's not like they are singling out Sosa. He is just being a cry baby about it. But the whole 'just because they have the power doesn't mean they should exert it' argument never gets anywhere. I don't think the IRS should exert their power to take my money. But they do every year. The organization may be poorly run. (They are like the Mets of the NL Central) But the truth of the matter is they can decide when to retire a number and who gets to wear it.

 
 
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I didn't make a point about the Cavs/LeBron. LeBron has less than nothing to do with this thread - please don't turn this into a cry for Cleveland thread.

As for Sosa, of course they knew. Just like the Cardinals knew about McGwire, just like everyone knew about just about everyone that was crushing 50+ home runs. It's impossible not to have known, and it's naive to think that nobody in the organization knew what was going on.

I wasn't turning it into a Cry for Cleveland thread. Wasn't even close to being one. You made a point about the franchise turning a blind eye to shady things they new were happening. This was the case for LeBron and the Cavs. If anything, I was making a point for your statement.

Don't criticize every post that mentions Cleveland, a Cleveland team, or someone who played for Cleveland as being a Cry for Cleveland or homer post, when it clearly is not the case.

Vet doesn't criticize every post that mentions Cleveland. He just criticizes yours.

 

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Sammy Who?

By his final year in Chicago, he was on very thin ice with all the steroid talk going on. The corked bat happens. Dumb move, yes. But the Wrigley Faithful let that slide since it's pretty much been proven that a corked bat hurts more than it helps. But at the end of the year, Sammy left the team high and dry in the middle of a game, told Dusty Baker to "stick it", and then no-showed the final game of the season. For me, that was the final straw. What a piece of :censored:. After he leaves town, he's linked to 'roids. End of story.

Looking back now, I hardly remember Sosa was a Cub. Now, I just see him as one of the games all-time frauds and a Jacko wannabe freak.

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Some teams (generally newer teams, can't think of a specific example but I'm sure I could find a handful of guys who don't deserve the honor but have received it) look for any reason to retire numbers. He shouldn't go public with it, but if I'm him I'm a little upset too.

The Rays retired Wade Boggs' 12, just to have it. I think thats really lame of them.

But idk about Sammy. He seemed like a crowd favorite for a long time, and brought baseball back with McGwire. I think that they should retire it, but the steroids and everything tainted it.

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I think I can speak for most Cubs fan when I say having Tyler Colvin in that number is much better than having it wave from the foul pole. Well, they could retire it as long as they honor Milton Bradley and Jason Marquis, other legends of '21'. They accomplished just as many clean home runs, yes, even Marquis (he's a good hitter) as Sosa did. Cry me a river, Sammy

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---Owner of the NHA's Philadelphia Quakers, the UBA's Chicago Skyliners, and the CFA's Portland Beavers (2010 CFA2 Champions)---

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I didn't make a point about the Cavs/LeBron. LeBron has less than nothing to do with this thread - please don't turn this into a cry for Cleveland thread.

As for Sosa, of course they knew. Just like the Cardinals knew about McGwire, just like everyone knew about just about everyone that was crushing 50+ home runs. It's impossible not to have known, and it's naive to think that nobody in the organization knew what was going on.

I wasn't turning it into a Cry for Cleveland thread. Wasn't even close to being one. You made a point about the franchise turning a blind eye to shady things they new were happening. This was the case for LeBron and the Cavs. If anything, I was making a point for your statement.

Don't criticize every post that mentions Cleveland, a Cleveland team, or someone who played for Cleveland as being a Cry for Cleveland or homer post, when it clearly is not the case.

Vet doesn't criticize every post that mentions Cleveland. He just criticizes yours.

The whole point of the post was that in some cases, franchises ignore what a player does or how he treats situations. In the case of Sosa, it's just like the rest of the players in the era... they were hitting HRs, bringing in fan, and helping win ball games. There was no upside for the team or organization to bring attention to it. The only benefit they had was to turn the other way. Which is similar to the way the Cavs handled the LeBron issues.

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SAINT IGNATIUS WILDCATS | CLEVELAND BROWNS | CLEVELAND CAVALIERS | CLEVELAND INDIANS | THE OHIO STATE BUCKEYES

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I didn't make a point about the Cavs/LeBron. LeBron has less than nothing to do with this thread - please don't turn this into a cry for Cleveland thread.

As for Sosa, of course they knew. Just like the Cardinals knew about McGwire, just like everyone knew about just about everyone that was crushing 50+ home runs. It's impossible not to have known, and it's naive to think that nobody in the organization knew what was going on.

I wasn't turning it into a Cry for Cleveland thread. Wasn't even close to being one. You made a point about the franchise turning a blind eye to shady things they new were happening. This was the case for LeBron and the Cavs. If anything, I was making a point for your statement.

Don't criticize every post that mentions Cleveland, a Cleveland team, or someone who played for Cleveland as being a Cry for Cleveland or homer post, when it clearly is not the case.

Vet doesn't criticize every post that mentions Cleveland. He just criticizes yours.

The whole point of the post was that in some cases, franchises ignore what a player does or how he treats situations. In the case of Sosa, it's just like the rest of the players in the era... they were hitting HRs, bringing in fan, and helping win ball games. There was no upside for the team or organization to bring attention to it. The only benefit they had was to turn the other way. Which is similar to the way the Cavs handled the LeBron issues.

Except LeBron's "issues" are comparatively minor to teams turning a blind eye to steroid abuse. Unless LeBron was running a drug and/or white slavery ring out of the Cavs locker room, the "issues" are not comparable.

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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But at the end of the year, Sammy left the team high and dry in the middle of a game, told Dusty Baker to "stick it", and then no-showed the final game of the season.

I had forgotten how bad that relationship ended. After that and then the steriods story exloding, I can see why the organization wants to keep their distance.

it's frustrating when you've hit historic marks, yet don't get the same honor that other guys do who accomplished less than half of what you did.

Yes, but when you burn your bridges on the way out of town, you can't expect the team to embrace you so soon. I can't imagine the Red Sox retiring Manny Ramirez's number any time soon, depite his prodigious HR numbers and two World Series titles.

However, time heals (most) wounds. There was a lot of bad blood between the Red Sox and Carlton Fisk when Fisk left in 1980, but 25 years (and an ownership change) later and Fisk's "27" hangs on the right field facade.

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Except LeBron's "issues" are comparatively minor to teams turning a blind eye to steroid abuse. Unless LeBron was running a drug and/or white slavery ring out of the Cavs locker room, the "issues" are not comparable.

The point being, the Franchise/Organization turning a blind eye to actions and behavior that they don't like or don't approve of because they are winning games or putting fans in the seats.

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SAINT IGNATIUS WILDCATS | CLEVELAND BROWNS | CLEVELAND CAVALIERS | CLEVELAND INDIANS | THE OHIO STATE BUCKEYES

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Except LeBron's "issues" are comparatively minor to teams turning a blind eye to steroid abuse. Unless LeBron was running a drug and/or white slavery ring out of the Cavs locker room, the "issues" are not comparable.

The point being, the Franchise/Organization turning a blind eye to actions and behavior that they don't like or don't approve of because they are winning games or putting fans in the seats.

I fail to equate "quirks" and "possibly high maintenance" with "flouting, if not breaking the law regularly"

On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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But at the end of the year, Sammy left the team high and dry in the middle of a game, told Dusty Baker to "stick it", and then no-showed the final game of the season.

I had forgotten how bad that relationship ended. After that and then the steriods story exloding, I can see why the organization wants to keep their distance.

it's frustrating when you've hit historic marks, yet don't get the same honor that other guys do who accomplished less than half of what you did.

Yes, but when you burn your bridges on the way out of town, you can't expect the team to embrace you so soon. I can't imagine the Red Sox retiring Manny Ramirez's number any time soon, depite his prodigious HR numbers and two World Series titles.

However, time heals (most) wounds. There was a lot of bad blood between the Red Sox and Carlton Fisk when Fisk left in 1980, but 25 years (and an ownership change) later and Fisks' "27" hangs on the right field facade.

I suppose that it doesn't help his character any that he stated "I will calmly wait for my induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame." Who does that? I can't remember the last person I've heard say they are going to be a hall of famer because 'they have the numbers'. (http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4229022)

I'm sorry, that's an ego that's gotten too big for it's own good. Getting your number retired and to be inducted into the Hall of Fame are honours bestowed on you, not 'things' that you get to choose for yourself.

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Agreed.

Personally, I think statements like that should count against you when the voters are deciding. The Hall of Fame is an honor, not a right.

I couldn't disagree more. The hall tells the story of the game, by enshrining the game's greats. To omit a guy based on a questionable personality trait is doing a disservice to the game.

If you want to exclude a guy due to steroids, well I can see that. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I can certainly understand it. But assume steroids weren't in the picture - you want to exlude a guy for having an ego - the very ego which (at least in his case) was what drove him to acheive. That doesn't seem right to me.

Note that I realize you can't take steroids out of the picture, I'm just playing devil's advocat.

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See, I don't think the Cubs should retire #21 for Sosa. Although I wouldn't have retired 23 or 31 or 10 or 14 or 26 either. But maybe that's because I feel differently on how numbers should be treated.

I believe there is nothing that Sosa can do now that he is retired to have his number retired. To use the Cardinals, there's nothing Albert Pujols could really do to merit retirement of his number (to me).

As much as I hate the team, the Toronto Maple Leafs have it right - retire numbers for those who performed well for the team and had a career-ending incident while with the team. Numbers can still be honored, of course, and that, to me, works out well, with those numbers only being issued to those who deserve it (similar to how the #1 football jersey used to be handled at the University of Michigan). Just think of it, for the Phils, my hometown team, if the organization thought enough of you to let you wear the #20 that Mike Schmidt once wore, or the #32 that Steve Carlton once wore.

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16 years with the White Sox and almost 2000 games? wtf are you talking about? How can somebody post a stat like this: (There are only six other players in history who have both hit more home runs and have a higher career batting average than Thomas: Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Babe Ruth, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and Willie Mays) and be in the dugout for 96% of his career?

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16 years with the White Sox and almost 2000 games? wtf are you talking about? How can somebody post a stat like this: (There are only six other players in history who have both hit more home runs and have a higher career batting average than Thomas: Hank Aaron, Jimmie Foxx, Babe Ruth, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and Willie Mays) and be in the dugout for 96% of his career?

1) He's exaggerating...that's something folks on the Internet like to do to make jokes.

2) As a DH for a great deal of his career (especially at the end), you've got to admit, he spent an awful lot of time sitting on his ass. :P

On January 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, NJTank said:

Btw this is old hat for Notre Dame. Knits Rockne made up George Tip's death bed speech.

 

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