Next Move Or Expansion

[Still MIGHTY]

NFL - Jacksonville, St. Louis, San Diego to Los Angeles

The interesting thing is what will happen to the odd team out? Jacksonville can't draw, and both San Diego and St. Louis need new facilities. The NFL only wants two teams in LA, and once that's accomplished the odd team out will no longer be able use a move to LA as leverage in stadium negotiations.

I still don't know how real it would be to get two teams back in LA.

I think the NFL will get the one team here and stick with that. There's no need for a second team.

The only way there will be two teams in LA is if St. Louis or Jacksonville moves first, and then the Chargers join whoever goes to LA. If there are two teams in LA, one of them will be the Chargers.

[MadmanLA]

With regard to NFL-calibre stadium plans in Greater Los Angeles, Tim Leiweke and Casey Wasserman are investigating the possibility of building a stadium behind Staples Center, on a site now occupied by the West Hall of the Los Angeles Convention Center.

Of course, that's the second such proposal in the Staples Center area; the first proposal was around 2002-03, where the L.A. Live complex currently sits, right on 11th Street (Chick Hearn Court) and Figueroa Street.

I think Roski's plan has the right idea, but as it was stated, he won't commit to even putting a shovel in the ground until he gets a firm commitment (and an ownership stake) from a team wanting to move to Greater Los Angeles. Location-wise, although it's about 30 miles from downtown L.A., it's a central location to neighboring San Bernardino, Riverside, and Orange counties.

[The_Admiral]

NFL - Jacksonville, St. Louis, San Diego to Los Angeles

The interesting thing is what will happen to the odd team out? Jacksonville can't draw, and both San Diego and St. Louis need new facilities. The NFL only wants two teams in LA, and once that's accomplished the odd team out will no longer be able use a move to LA as leverage in stadium negotiations.

I still don't know how real it would be to get two teams back in LA.

I think the NFL will get the one team here and stick with that. There's no need for a second team.

The only way there will be two teams in LA is if St. Louis or Jacksonville moves first, and then the Chargers join whoever goes to LA. If there are two teams in LA, one of them will be the Chargers.

You'd know better than I: Haven't the Chargers really ramped up their marketing efforts in greater L.A., to the point that they're practically squatting?

As for IceCap's question, I suppose the dangling carrot becomes whichever extant market is vacated by a move to Los Angeles (St. Louis, San Diego, God forbid the Twin Cities), unless it's Jacksonville or Buffalo, which would be abandoned forever. Then the threat is Toronto. And if you've seen the SkyDome for Bills games, it's an empty threat.

[Still MIGHTY]

NFL - Jacksonville, St. Louis, San Diego to Los Angeles

The interesting thing is what will happen to the odd team out? Jacksonville can't draw, and both San Diego and St. Louis need new facilities. The NFL only wants two teams in LA, and once that's accomplished the odd team out will no longer be able use a move to LA as leverage in stadium negotiations.

I still don't know how real it would be to get two teams back in LA.

I think the NFL will get the one team here and stick with that. There's no need for a second team.

The only way there will be two teams in LA is if St. Louis or Jacksonville moves first, and then the Chargers join whoever goes to LA. If there are two teams in LA, one of them will be the Chargers.

You'd know better than I: Haven't the Chargers really ramped up their marketing efforts in greater L.A., to the point that they're practically squatting?

I've seen a couple billboards in LA and they are most definitely marketing on TV and Radio. Plus Charger games are shown in LA more often than any other team, moreso than Raider games now (for the best. I hated getting terrible Raider games, just because there are some leftover fans in LA).

But yeah, they definitely upped their efforts to lure in fans from Orange County and LA. It's an easy drive, and an easier train ride. I think that there were even packages offered of Amtrak tickets and Charger tickets for a little while for LA/OC. I can't remember if they still do it, though.

"Squatting" might be taking it a little far, but yeah they are most definitely trying pretty hard.

[Corvus]

Phx Coyotes to Kansas City.

Because crushing Winnipeg's dreams makes Betman giggle.

[MadmanLA]

NFL - Jacksonville, St. Louis, San Diego to Los Angeles

The interesting thing is what will happen to the odd team out? Jacksonville can't draw, and both San Diego and St. Louis need new facilities. The NFL only wants two teams in LA, and once that's accomplished the odd team out will no longer be able use a move to LA as leverage in stadium negotiations.

I still don't know how real it would be to get two teams back in LA.

I think the NFL will get the one team here and stick with that. There's no need for a second team.

The only way there will be two teams in LA is if St. Louis or Jacksonville moves first, and then the Chargers join whoever goes to LA. If there are two teams in LA, one of them will be the Chargers.

You'd know better than I: Haven't the Chargers really ramped up their marketing efforts in greater L.A., to the point that they're practically squatting?

I've seen a couple billboards in LA and they are most definitely marketing on TV and Radio. Plus Charger games are shown in LA more often than any other team, moreso than Raider games now (for the best. I hated getting terrible Raider games, just because there are some leftover fans in LA).

But yeah, they definitely upped their efforts to lure in fans from Orange County and LA. It's an easy drive, and an easier train ride. I think that there were even packages offered of Amtrak tickets and Charger tickets for a little while for LA/OC. I can't remember if they still do it, though.

"Squatting" might be taking it a little far, but yeah they are most definitely trying pretty hard.

My feeling has been that the Chargers, if they can't get anything done in San Diego County, will be the most likely candidate to move up here to L.A. As mentioned, their games air on radio and TV here and have for several years. KCBS-TV carries any Charger game they have available to them from the network, and co-produces the preseason telecasts with KFMB-TV, San Diego's CBS station.

From a television market standpoint, if another team moves to L.A. (specifically an AFC team), it'll definitely affect the Chargers because they'll lose the much larger and more lucrative L.A. TV market. It basically cannibalizes their L.A./Orange County marketing. Also, thanks to the horrific wildfires from a few years ago, the San Diego TV market has shrank (it lost households), where it was usually ranked in the mid-20s, now is currently the 28th largest TV market in the country.

[Gothamite]

The only way there will be two teams in LA is if St. Louis or Jacksonville moves first, and then the Chargers join whoever goes to LA. If there are two teams in LA, one of them will be the Chargers.

I'm not sure about that. I could definitely see two teams in LA, but they'd have to be one from each conference.

If the Rams move first, then there's still an AFC spot open in town. On the other hand, if the Jaguars move first, then LA is closed to the Chargers. Similarly, the Chargers could freeze the Jaguars out of the LA market if they jump before Jacksonville is ready to.

For that reason, I don't think it matters what the Chargers or Jaguars do when it comes to the Rams' lease being up in a couple seasons. I suspect the Rams will move back to LA, whether they're the first or second team to do so.

[DustDevil61]

With the Coyotes on-again/off-again talks as to who their owner will be, I could see the Rams being one of, if not the first, team to jump ship, even if it takes until 2014 to do so.

As for the odd man (Jacksonville or St. Louis, as San Diego would likely move to LA) out, there are always places like Toronto, San Antonio, Oklahoma (the City or Tulsa), and Portland. Even Salt Lake City, I would say, has an outside shot (I know, I know); Dave Checketts, who sought to buy the Rams, believes that Salt Lake may have a team after 10 years, in a local sports talk show. Take it for what it's worth.

Let's not forget that there was a day when an NFL team in Nashville seemed unlikely.

Let's just hope that the Vikings don't end up moving anywhere soon, and that Santa Clara stadium ends up being the next home of the 49ers and Raiders.

[ZapRowsdower8]

I dont know if this has come up in this thread yet, but awhile back (in a different thread) somebody posted an article (I believe it came from Forbes magazine) that showed all of the markets that could currently handle a new franchise. It studied MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLS. If I remember correctly the only new market they said could handle a MLB team was New Jersey. Does anybody else remember this/have the link to that article?

[Brian in Boston]

If the Rams move first, then there's still an AFC spot open in town. On the other hand, if the Jaguars move first, then LA is closed to the Chargers. Similarly, the Chargers could freeze the Jaguars out of the LA market if they jump before Jacksonville is ready to.

For that reason, I don't think it matters what the Chargers or Jaguars do when it comes to the Rams' lease being up in a couple seasons. I suspect the Rams will move back to LA, whether they're the first or second team to do so.

I don't see an early move by the Chargers or Jaguars serving to "freeze" the other current AFC team out of Los Angeles. If the two AFC franchises were the first to commit to relocating to LA, I could see the NFL's owners approving a conference swap between the Jaguars and a current NFC franchise. That's how much of a "millstone around the neck" of the NFL's owners the Jaguars continued woes in Jacksonville have threatened to become - if, indeed, they haven't already achieved that status.

I could very easily see the NFL powers-that-be approving a Jaguars-for-Panthers conference swap. Why? Having debuted alongside the Jaguars in 1995, the Panthers are relative "newcomers" to the NFL and, as such, having the two teams swap places would provide a certain symmetry to the arrangement. More importantly, Panthers owner Jerry Richardson has proven himself to be very amenable to working for the greater good of the league since joining the ranks of NFL ownership.

So, if the Jaguars and Chargers were ready to pull-the-trigger on moves to LA before the Rams, I could see Jacksonville and Carolina swapping conferences. The Panthers would take the Jaguars' old slot in the AFC South. Then, the Los Angeles Jaguars could move to the NFC West, with the St. Louis Rams moving to the NFC South. Kroenke would be unlikely to put-up much of a fuss in such a scenario, given the fact that he's aware that the NFL's owners are already cutting him some slack by giving him the time to "divest" of the Avalanche and Nuggets.

Bottom line? I can see any two-team combination of Jacksonville, San Diego and St. Louis winding-up in Los Angeles. Whichever team is left out in the cold is then going to be forced to either become very creative in attempting to squeeze a new stadium deal out of their current market (after all, they won't be able to use LA as leverage anymore), or will have to try and wrangle something out of a market like San Antonio - or, one of the just-jilted municipalities.

[IceCap]

The Jaguars will be one of the two eventual LA teams. The league wants out of Jacksonville. As for the other team, it's a toss-up. The Rams can get out of St. Louis quickly, but the Chargers have the most to lose, having invested so much in advertising to LA/OC.

[DustDevil61]

In the event of the Jaguars moving to LA, a conference swap is likely, but I've never seen the Jaguars-for-Panthers proposal before. That sure makes more sense than keeping the Jaguars in the AFC, moving them to the West, and the Chiefs to the South. It would be very odd to see the Panthers in the AFC, though the Jaguars would likely re-brand and/or rename themselves upon arrival.

What happens, then, if the Jaguars and the Rams eventually wind up on the West Coast? My guess is that the Jags stay in the AFC south (aka the Division of Misfit Teams), while the Rams (obviously) remain in the NFC West, refreshing their rivalry with the 49ers.

(Uh-oh...just realized that this could turn into a Reel-Line-Mint thread very quickly. I'll stop now.)

I have a couple of other relocation-related questions:

As for Kansas City and either the NBA/NHL, which of the two would you say is closer to calling the Sprint Center home?

I've heard somewhere that the Rays, should they fail to get any kind of stadium in the Tampa Bay area, could move to Connecticut. Is this true? If so, then where?

[dfwabel]

I dont know if this has come up in this thread yet, but awhile back (in a different thread) somebody posted an article (I believe it came from Forbes magazine) that showed all of the markets that could currently handle a new franchise. It studied MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLS. If I remember correctly the only new market they said could handle a MLB team was New Jersey. Does anybody else remember this/have the link to that article?

It was from portfolio.com (American Business Journals). The big item they used in consideration was total personal income and nothing related to how a facility would be financed or the area's current economic situation.

[Luigi74]

I thought that Tampa Bay, Seattle, Jacksonville, Carolina and Houston could have their conference and/or divisions switched by the league due to some agreement that was made when they joined the league.

[Gothamite]

I thought that Tampa Bay, Seattle, Jacksonville, Carolina and Houston could have their conference and/or divisions switched by the league due to some agreement that was made when they joined the league.

I don't know about that. The Diamondbacks and Devil Rays had such an arrangement when they joined MLB, but only for the first x number of seasons.

IIRC, the Cardinals had to be forced by the NFL to leave the NFC East (didn't want to lose the lucrative division games), but the NFL got its way.

[Waffles]

We have a winner, sorta...

The Liberty will spend two seasons in Newark while MSG is being renovated.

[CubsFanBudMan]

If the Rams move first, then there's still an AFC spot open in town. On the other hand, if the Jaguars move first, then LA is closed to the Chargers. Similarly, the Chargers could freeze the Jaguars out of the LA market if they jump before Jacksonville is ready to.

For that reason, I don't think it matters what the Chargers or Jaguars do when it comes to the Rams' lease being up in a couple seasons. I suspect the Rams will move back to LA, whether they're the first or second team to do so.

I don't see an early move by the Chargers or Jaguars serving to "freeze" the other current AFC team out of Los Angeles. If the two AFC franchises were the first to commit to relocating to LA, I could see the NFL's owners approving a conference swap between the Jaguars and a current NFC franchise. That's how much of a "millstone around the neck" of the NFL's owners the Jaguars continued woes in Jacksonville have threatened to become - if, indeed, they haven't already achieved that status.

I could very easily see the NFL powers-that-be approving a Jaguars-for-Panthers conference swap. Why? Having debuted alongside the Jaguars in 1995, the Panthers are relative "newcomers" to the NFL and, as such, having the two teams swap places would provide a certain symmetry to the arrangement. More importantly, Panthers owner Jerry Richardson has proven himself to be very amenable to working for the greater good of the league since joining the ranks of NFL ownership.

So, if the Jaguars and Chargers were ready to pull-the-trigger on moves to LA before the Rams, I could see Jacksonville and Carolina swapping conferences. The Panthers would take the Jaguars' old slot in the AFC South. Then, the Los Angeles Jaguars could move to the NFC West, with the St. Louis Rams moving to the NFC South. Kroenke would be unlikely to put-up much of a fuss in such a scenario, given the fact that he's aware that the NFL's owners are already cutting him some slack by giving him the time to "divest" of the Avalanche and Nuggets.

Bottom line? I can see any two-team combination of Jacksonville, San Diego and St. Louis winding-up in Los Angeles. Whichever team is left out in the cold is then going to be forced to either become very creative in attempting to squeeze a new stadium deal out of their current market (after all, they won't be able to use LA as leverage anymore), or will have to try and wrangle something out of a market like San Antonio - or, one of the just-jilted municipalities.

I've always thought that if two AFC teams moved to L.A. and one of them was Jacksonville and the other was either Oakland or San Diego, then St. Louis is a simple trade to the AFC South. The L.A. Jaguars take the place of the Rams in the NFC West, and St. Louis enters a division with Tennessee, Indianapolis and Houston that is as much "Central" as it is South (and perhaps offers a built-in rivalry with the Titans). It makes a lot of sense geographically, but I'm not sure that that would override the Rams' NFC tradition in the NFL's mind. However, the tradition of the NFC West consists of a former NFC East team (Cardinals) and a former AFC team (Seahawks) so the Rams' only real complaint would be the loss of the 49ers. At any rate, I don't see conference affiliation being a factor in which two teams go to L.A. And if the NFL wants two, they also should really go at the same time, just like how the Raiders and Rams left.

To answer the question, the next major move will likely come from the NBA or NHL. The NFL has labor issues to deal with first and MLB is stable with the A's the only team overdue for a stadium. The NHL's Coyotes seem like the front-runners, but the NBA's Pistons or Kings are up there, too. Here's hoping the Pistons' move would only be from Auburn Hills to Detroit (or more likely, the Red Wings in the opposite direction until a new building is built downtown). But the Kings just seem like a team that fits the criteria. And if they were just flirting with Seattle... could Anaheim or Vegas be on the radar? And is anyone going to Kansas City besides the reborn Brigade?

[Panhead1]

Oakland to Los Angeles.

Raiders? A's? Warriors?

Any substantiation to this claim? Or just a wild guess?

Raiders.

[Gothamite]

So that would be "wild guess," then.

[Magnus]

Chicago Wolves to NHL, Atlanta Thrashers to AHL. See my hackneyed reasoning in the Pointless Realignment thread.