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rams80

Bruce Pearl's in trouble with the NCAA

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Bruce Pearl? Mislead the NCAA? Unthinkable.

/sarcasm

As for why Illinoisans are laughing about this... (courtesy of wiki)

Pearl/Thomas incident

During the 1988-89 basketball season, Pearl, then an assistant coach at the University of Iowa, was at the center of a recruiting scandal involving the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Both Illinois and Iowa were recruiting Deon Thomas, a top high school player from Chicago. Pearl lost this recruiting battle when Thomas committed to Illinois. Thereafter, Pearl called the high school student and recorded a phone conversation with Thomas. During the conversation, Pearl asked Thomas if he had been offered an SUV and cash by Illinois assistant coach Jimmy Collins, and Thomas indicated he had. Pearl then turned over copies of the tapes to the NCAA, accompanied by a memo describing the events. During the subsequent NCAA investigation, Thomas denied the allegations and said the story was false; a lie detector test supported Thomas' claim. The NCAA did not find Illinois guilty of any wrongdoing relating to Thomas' recruitment, finding that the proof provided was not "credible, persuasive and of a kind on which reasonably prudent persons rely in the conduct of serious affairs." However, since the investigation uncovered other violations, including Illinois' third major violation in six years, the NCAA cited Illinois with a "lack of institutional control" charge and implemented several recruiting restrictions and a one-year post-season ban. The event led to a "blackballing" by many coaches in D?I, and even led ESPN commentator Dick Vitale to call Pearl's actions "career suicide" during a telecast.

When Pearl and Collins were both head coaches for four years in the Horizon League, the two men never engaged in the traditional postgame handshake, reportedly due to lingering feelings over the incident. When Thomas was asked about forgiving Pearl in a 2005 interview, he was quoted as saying "It's hard to forgive a snake." Thomas went on to play basketball at the University of Illinois, becoming its all-time leading scorer.

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It's real bad when you hear the names of certain coaches and/or schools in trouble with the NCAA and have no surprise.

Seriously, it was only a matter of time before Pearl ran afoul of the NCAA...again.

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Well, that explains why Pearl seems so snake like... He was an assistant at Iowa.

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How can anyone dislike Bruce Pearl?

His orange suit, and chest painting while watching the Lady Vols was fantastic and everything coach sports should be.

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Bruce Pearl's a jerk.

Illini fans anger maybe would be better served to be at least AS directed at the NCAA, though. Despite uncovering some violations as a result of the unrelated investigation, the lack of institutional control charge was a joke, mostly because the NCAA didn't base it on or use it as a precedent, as they to this day (although they seem to be getting better in the last couple of years) they pick and choose which schools they'll make examples of and which ones they'd rather do just enough to not be called on.

Back to Pearl, though. He's a jerk.

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Always felt the Illini's grudge against Bruce Pearl was childish and misplaced, even by the retarded standards of college sports fandom.

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Bruce Pearl's a jerk.

Illini fans anger maybe would be better served to be at least AS directed at the NCAA, though. Despite uncovering some violations as a result of the unrelated investigation, the lack of institutional control charge was a joke, mostly because the NCAA didn't base it on or use it as a precedent, as they to this day (although they seem to be getting better in the last couple of years) they pick and choose which schools they'll make examples of and which ones they'd rather do just enough to not be called on.

Back to Pearl, though. He's a jerk.

Today, we are all jerks.

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So did Pearl make up the Thomas story back in the day, or was it just that it couldn't be proven? Unless I'm missing something, the quoted portion of the story posted in the first post doesn't really indicate that Pearl was guilty of anything regarding the Thomas incident, merely that he violated some kind of code by ratting out one of his peers. What am I missing?

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So did Pearl make up the Thomas story back in the day, or was it just that it couldn't be proven? Unless I'm missing something, the quoted portion of the story posted in the first post doesn't really indicate that Pearl was guilty of anything regarding the Thomas incident, merely that he violated some kind of code by ratting out one of his peers. What am I missing?

Pearl made it up. Hence my lack of surprise at him misleading the NCAA again.

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So did Pearl make up the Thomas story back in the day, or was it just that it couldn't be proven? Unless I'm missing something, the quoted portion of the story posted in the first post doesn't really indicate that Pearl was guilty of anything regarding the Thomas incident, merely that he violated some kind of code by ratting out one of his peers. What am I missing?

Well the violating the code shouldn't be shrugged at first off. He didn't simply rat on anyone, he was pissed he lost a recruiting battle and secretly taped a conversation with said recruit to try and get revenge. The tape potentially implied violations might have occurred. In other words it was enough to investigate. The NCAA did and they found NOTHING (in regards to those accusations). It was a dirty scum move on Pearl's part.

And here's a lot of the reason why the NCAA probably found nothing and why Pearl is scum.

http://illinois.scout.com/2/276216.html

Here is some of what they discovered:

1. While the transcript appeared to incriminate Thomas, there was evidence of gaps in the tape, indicating the possibility of deletions or creative splicing.

2. The tape recording itself was vague. It showed an obvious attempt by Pearl to lead Thomas to agree with a predetermined conclusion, and Thomas' assertion that he was just agreeing with Pearl as if it were a joke could not be disproved. Certainly, Thomas never volunteered nor directly stated that he was offered or given anything on the tape.

3. An investigation of LaPhonso Ellis' claims proved to be totally incorrect. Even a member of his own family said the claims were untrue. Eventually, Ellis publicly admitted to lying about the episode. One must wonder why he made the claims in the first place and whether his coach or anyone else made Ellis lie. Was there a conspiracy to incriminate Illinois for some self-serving reason? Did Bobby Knight's earlier "whisper campaign" against Illinois influence Digger Phelps' attitude toward Illinois, or did Phelps wish to damage Illinois for some personal reason?

4. Iowa paid for a friend of Deon Thomas to visit the Iowa campus for the purpose of getting him to help recruit Thomas to Iowa. Was this student, Reynoldo Kyles, thus a representative of Iowa's athletic interest and therefore ineligible to be involved in recruiting?

5. Deon Thomas' grandmother said it was Iowa who offered her a new residence if Deon would attend Iowa, and that Illinois made no illegal offers. By the way, at no time did the NCAA follow up on recommendations to investigate either Iowa or Notre Dame for possible violations.

If the allegations were actually true, there are better ways for an opposing coach to contact the NCAA about them. But there was little evidence to support the allegations, and a decent bit to suggest they were lies.

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Always felt the Illini's grudge against Bruce Pearl was childish and misplaced, even by the retarded standards of college sports fandom.

Eh. You have an apparent grudge against the generally shared thinking of the state school.

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How can anyone dislike Bruce Pearl?

His orange suit, and chest painting while watching the Lady Vols was fantastic and everything coach sports should be.

Thanks for appreciating liars and those who cheat. When will you admonish Calipari, Pitino and Tarkanian from decades past?

Bruce Pearl's a jerk.

Illini fans anger maybe would be better served to be at least AS directed at the NCAA, though. Despite uncovering some violations as a result of the unrelated investigation, the lack of institutional control charge was a joke, mostly because the NCAA didn't base it on or use it as a precedent, as they to this day (although they seem to be getting better in the last couple of years) they pick and choose which schools they'll make examples of and which ones they'd rather do just enough to not be called on.

Back to Pearl, though. He's a jerk.

Is he dirty? What he told the NCAA regarding Deon Thomas can be read here.

On the other hand, Illinois played the same "game" as Michigan did in 1991 in hiring Perry Watson (Jalen Rose's HS coach) when they hired Wayne McClain (dad of former Illini player Sergio McClain and former Peoria Manual HC). Don't forget the issues with Marcus Liberty as well.

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So did Pearl make up the Thomas story back in the day, or was it just that it couldn't be proven? Unless I'm missing something, the quoted portion of the story posted in the first post doesn't really indicate that Pearl was guilty of anything regarding the Thomas incident, merely that he violated some kind of code by ratting out one of his peers. What am I missing?

Well the violating the code shouldn't be shrugged at first off. He didn't simply rat on anyone, he was pissed he lost a recruiting battle and secretly taped a conversation with said recruit to try and get revenge. The tape potentially implied violations might have occurred. In other words it was enough to investigate. The NCAA did and they found NOTHING (in regards to those accusations). It was a dirty scum move on Pearl's part.

By saying that he's scum for violating the code, you are effectively saying that if you know someone is cheating or breaking the rules, you shouldn't say anything, even if that cheating has a direct impact on your ability to succeed (and even maybe keep) your job. IF (and I've never even heard of this guy until this thread becaue I really don't follow college basketball much) his transcript did incriminate Thomas / UI and the NCAA ruled that something bad happened, would he still be scum? My guess is that if it was the other way around, UI fans be calling Pearl the scum for cheating, not the UI coach for calling him out.

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So did Pearl make up the Thomas story back in the day, or was it just that it couldn't be proven? Unless I'm missing something, the quoted portion of the story posted in the first post doesn't really indicate that Pearl was guilty of anything regarding the Thomas incident, merely that he violated some kind of code by ratting out one of his peers. What am I missing?

Well the violating the code shouldn't be shrugged at first off. He didn't simply rat on anyone, he was pissed he lost a recruiting battle and secretly taped a conversation with said recruit to try and get revenge. The tape potentially implied violations might have occurred. In other words it was enough to investigate. The NCAA did and they found NOTHING (in regards to those accusations). It was a dirty scum move on Pearl's part.

By saying that he's scum for violating the code, you are effectively saying that if you know someone is cheating or breaking the rules, you shouldn't say anything, even if that cheating has a direct impact on your ability to succeed (and even maybe keep) your job. IF (and I've never even heard of this guy until this thread becaue I really don't follow college basketball much) his transcript did incriminate Thomas / UI and the NCAA ruled that something bad happened, would he still be scum? My guess is that if it was the other way around, UI fans be calling Pearl the scum for cheating, not the UI coach for calling him out.

What Illini fans here fail to say is that from the result of the bidding war for Deon Thomas and the Pearl story to the NCAA is that Jimmy Collins, then an Illini Assistant Coach, was forced to resign and thus limiting their recruiting within the Chicago's PSL (Public School League) for two to three seasons. Collins went on to coach UIC the following season and held that position until August of this year.

1996 was the same time of retirement of Lou Henson and many Chicago PSL (Public School League) coaches did not appreciate the fact that Collins was not hired to replace Henson and did not want their players to attend Illinois.

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Pearl called Thomas at all hours of the night, asking leading questions, pestering Thomas about an SUV U of I allegedly bought him until he got the answer he wanted. Thomas' answer was something along the lines of "yeah, whatever." I would say that is scummy and dishonest thing for Pearl to do. He didn't expose anything, he preyed on a high school kid who had scorned him, taped their conversations and spliced the tape together to make things sound worse. Digger Phelps and Bob Knight were more than happy to jump into the thing with allegations. After all, Knight was your best friend when he was beating you, but once Henson started beating him and taking back in state recruits, he got angry.

As for Illinois' penalty, the NCAA originally was going to give them a swift but light punishment for the Thomas "violations." Illinois had the audacity to sue the NCAA about the issue, and they didn't take well to that. So, in the expanded investigation they cleared U of I from the Thomas charges and drummed up other BS to tag the school for.

Tennessee and USC are both being investigated for serious violations for football AND basketball. Those seem like slam dunk "lack of institutional control" cases. I am eagerly awaiting the ruling.

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So did Pearl make up the Thomas story back in the day, or was it just that it couldn't be proven? Unless I'm missing something, the quoted portion of the story posted in the first post doesn't really indicate that Pearl was guilty of anything regarding the Thomas incident, merely that he violated some kind of code by ratting out one of his peers. What am I missing?

Well the violating the code shouldn't be shrugged at first off. He didn't simply rat on anyone, he was pissed he lost a recruiting battle and secretly taped a conversation with said recruit to try and get revenge. The tape potentially implied violations might have occurred. In other words it was enough to investigate. The NCAA did and they found NOTHING (in regards to those accusations). It was a dirty scum move on Pearl's part.

By saying that he's scum for violating the code, you are effectively saying that if you know someone is cheating or breaking the rules, you shouldn't say anything, even if that cheating has a direct impact on your ability to succeed (and even maybe keep) your job. IF (and I've never even heard of this guy until this thread becaue I really don't follow college basketball much) his transcript did incriminate Thomas / UI and the NCAA ruled that something bad happened, would he still be scum? My guess is that if it was the other way around, UI fans be calling Pearl the scum for cheating, not the UI coach for calling him out.

You're not reading the context of my post. Pearl is scum for how he handled the situation. To secretly record telephone conversations and try and force out incriminating answers is what makes him scum. If he has a pretty solid hunch something happened, report it to the NCAA, report what he knows, and let the NCAA go about getting the rest of the details. The way he took on the situation was dirty.

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On the other hand, Illinois played the same "game" as Michigan did in 1991 in hiring Perry Watson (Jalen Rose's HS coach) when they hired Wayne McClain (dad of former Illini player Sergio McClain and former Peoria Manual HC). Don't forget the issues with Marcus Liberty as well.

That's not really a fair comparison. Wayne McClain was hired because he was a damn good HS basketball coach in a talent rich area in the state. I have no doubt the Illini had recruiting in mind, but it was a lot broader vision than just getting Sergio McClain in the fold. They knew Wayne offered coaching experience and an in to the entire Peoria region.

Also, Watson spent how many years at Michigan? 1991-1993. What about Wayne McClain? Yes, he's still coaching here now in his 10th season and has survived two head coaching changes.

Now that said, I'm not saying the Illini have a sparkling past, because clearly they don't. They've had some problems throughout the years, but for the last 10-15, things seem to be very clean (although I don't trust Bill Self with KU, so who knows what he did here). I do know that our athletic dept., headed by AD Ron Guenther goes above and beyond with compliance regulations. Ron Guenther gets a lot of negative reviews, but everyone commends him for cleaning up and keeping clean the DIA. And Bruce Weber? I don't think he even knows how to cheat. But now I'm being overly defensive since you didn't say anything about him or recent years even, so I'll just shut up.

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On the other hand, Illinois played the same "game" as Michigan did in 1991 in hiring Perry Watson (Jalen Rose's HS coach) when they hired Wayne McClain (dad of former Illini player Sergio McClain and former Peoria Manual HC). Don't forget the issues with Marcus Liberty as well.

That's not really a fair comparison. Wayne McClain was hired because he was a damn good HS basketball coach in a talent rich area in the state. I have no doubt the Illini had recruiting in mind, but it was a lot broader vision than just getting Sergio McClain in the fold. They knew Wayne offered coaching experience and an in to the entire Peoria region.

Also, Watson spent how many years at Michigan? 1991-1993. What about Wayne McClain? Yes, he's still coaching here now in his 10th season and has survived two head coaching changes.

Now that said, I'm not saying the Illini have a sparkling past, because clearly they don't. They've had some problems throughout the years, but for the last 10-15, things seem to be very clean (although I don't trust Bill Self with KU, so who knows what he did here). I do know that our athletic dept., headed by AD Ron Guenther goes above and beyond with compliance regulations. Ron Guenther gets a lot of negative reviews, but everyone commends him for cleaning up and keeping clean the DIA. And Bruce Weber? I don't think he even knows how to cheat. But now I'm being overly defensive since you didn't say anything about him or recent years even, so I'll just shut up.

like Perry Watson. Wayne McClain staying proves that he is not that good a coach and is/was used for the player (Sergio) only, then as an attempt to lead recruiting within the inner cities. If he was that good, he would have been hired by Bradley or any other school. Instead, Sergio got a JuCo job in Campaign at Parkland and has left that.

If many of us lied as Pearl did, we would have been fired. Even HP CEO Mark Hurd resigned after doing much less for a company which is bigger than the UT system. Granted, Hurd had a sexual tryst with it, but he was far more important than Pearl, and knew that a lie is a lie (and Pearl lied to his version of the SEC or FCC) and needed to leave.

STL FANATIC- I have my M.S. from Illinois (2000), but I never blindly followed them or other teams due to location or academic association.

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How can anyone dislike Bruce Pearl?

His orange suit, and chest painting while watching the Lady Vols was fantastic and everything coach sports should be.

Thanks for appreciating liars and those who cheat. When will you admonish Calipari, Pitino and Tarkanian from decades past?

Bruce Pearl's a jerk.

Illini fans anger maybe would be better served to be at least AS directed at the NCAA, though. Despite uncovering some violations as a result of the unrelated investigation, the lack of institutional control charge was a joke, mostly because the NCAA didn't base it on or use it as a precedent, as they to this day (although they seem to be getting better in the last couple of years) they pick and choose which schools they'll make examples of and which ones they'd rather do just enough to not be called on.

Back to Pearl, though. He's a jerk.

Is he dirty? What he told the NCAA regarding Deon Thomas can be read here.

On the other hand, Illinois played the same "game" as Michigan did in 1991 in hiring Perry Watson (Jalen Rose's HS coach) when they hired Wayne McClain (dad of former Illini player Sergio McClain and former Peoria Manual HC). Don't forget the issues with Marcus Liberty as well.

I actually liked Tark too, I thought it was funny how he used to eat his towel

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How can anyone dislike Bruce Pearl?

His orange suit, and chest painting while watching the Lady Vols was fantastic and everything coach sports should be.

Thanks for appreciating liars and those who cheat. When will you admonish Calipari, Pitino and Tarkanian from decades past?

Bruce Pearl's a jerk.

Illini fans anger maybe would be better served to be at least AS directed at the NCAA, though. Despite uncovering some violations as a result of the unrelated investigation, the lack of institutional control charge was a joke, mostly because the NCAA didn't base it on or use it as a precedent, as they to this day (although they seem to be getting better in the last couple of years) they pick and choose which schools they'll make examples of and which ones they'd rather do just enough to not be called on.

Back to Pearl, though. He's a jerk.

Is he dirty? What he told the NCAA regarding Deon Thomas can be read here.

On the other hand, Illinois played the same "game" as Michigan did in 1991 in hiring Perry Watson (Jalen Rose's HS coach) when they hired Wayne McClain (dad of former Illini player Sergio McClain and former Peoria Manual HC). Don't forget the issues with Marcus Liberty as well.

I actually liked Tark too, I thought it was funny how he used to eat his towel

Tank and Tark never pay for a meals in Fresno or Las Vegas since Tank is so smart on things. You know a lot about meals, but little about college recruitment. And even less about the names of actual NFL players you fail to know. Elvis Dumervil. Why is he on IR Tank?

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