Lions-Patriots

[josh1068a]

Legend has it that the Patriots' uniforms from 1995 - 1999 were inspired by the two franchises Robert Kraft (then a relatively new owner of the team) admired most: the Cowboys and the 49ers. From the Cowboys' 1994 alternate uniforms, he borrowed the idea of the stars on the shoulders and put the Flying Elvis on the shoulders..from that same uniform he also borrowed the idea of putting a logo / wordmark just below the collar (at that time still fairly uncommon.) From the Niners' NFL 75 throwbacks, he borrowed the idea of drop shadow numbers. Lastly, the two-tone striped jerseys came from European professional soccer, something the Krafts (also owners of the New England Revolution) were big fans of.

[Lights Out]

I take it you wouldn't see an issue with Celtic FC wearing orange, eh?

If I actually gave a crap about soccer in general, I wouldn't see a problem with that.

[tBBP]

Legend has it that the Patriots' uniforms from 1995 - 1999 were inspired by the two franchises Robert Kraft (then a relatively new owner of the team) admired most: the Cowboys and the 49ers. From the Cowboys' 1994 alternate uniforms, he borrowed the idea of the stars on the shoulders and put the Flying Elvis on the shoulders..from that same uniform he also borrowed the idea of putting a logo / wordmark just below the collar (at that time still fairly uncommon.) From the Niners' NFL 75 throwbacks, he borrowed the idea of drop shadow numbers. Lastly, the two-tone striped jerseys came from European professional soccer, something the Krafts (also owners of the New England Revolution) were big fans of.

If that is in fact true, then it makes a helluva lot of sense...and is pretty daggone cool.

And now that I think about it, aside from the stars in the Pro Bowl jerseys, I've often wondered why no other NFL team has ever bothered trying the sublimated jersey thing.

[IceCap]

I take it you wouldn't see an issue with Celtic FC wearing orange, eh?

If I actually gave a crap about soccer in general, I wouldn't see a problem with that.

Oh boy.

Celtic FC is the premier Catholic club in the Scottish Premier League. The Rangers are the premier Protestant club in the SPL. Catholic/Protestant tensions in the British Isles came to a head in 1688 when the Catholic King James II/VII managed to piss the Protestant Parliament off to the point where they asked his staunchly Protestant son-in-law, the Dutch William of Orange, to invade and take the crown. He took them up on the offer, and James' forces in Britain abandoned him for William. James retreated to Ireland, which was predominantly Catholic. William followed him over, however, and defeated him at the Battle of the Boyne, forcing James to flee to France.

Orange, in the British context, thus became the colour of Protestantism (remember, William was the head of the Dutch House of Orange), most visible through the Orange Order, a Protestant organization with branches throughout the Commonwealth that celebrate the Protestant heritage of the British Empire and celebrate William's victory at the Boyne. Dressing Celtic FC, a Catholic club, in orange would not go over well to say the least.

My point is that often times colours have very concrete meanings, especially when you base your club's identity off of a historical figure, group of people, or concept. You won't see the Columbus Blue Jackets wearing grey sweaters for the same reason Celtic FC won't be wearing orange; it's the colour of the enemy of the team's historical namesake. So why not logically extent this to the New England Patriots?

Besides, you hate Pat (with good reason, as he is he's a terrible logo). I'd have guessed you would support any argument that argues against him taking the field

[Lights Out]

I do hate Pat Patriot, as well as the red uniforms, but not because of a historical reason that has diddly crap to do with the franchise. My reasoning is that every version of the red uniforms were total ugly eyesores with too many stripes and a blobby, muddled helmet logo. They also represent embarrassing memories like the locker room sexual harassment scandal, the Sullivans having to live in the owners' box at Foxboro Stadium because they actually LOST money on a Michael Jackson concert, and the Bears using the Patriots as toilet paper in the Super Bowl. That should be enough to keep those red uniforms off the field entirely.

I had no idea there were religious teams in soccer, BTW.

[BBTV]

Legend has it that the Patriots' uniforms from 1995 - 1999 were inspired by the two franchises Robert Kraft (then a relatively new owner of the team) admired most: the Cowboys and the 49ers. From the Cowboys' 1994 alternate uniforms, he borrowed the idea of the stars on the shoulders and put the Flying Elvis on the shoulders..from that same uniform he also borrowed the idea of putting a logo / wordmark just below the collar (at that time still fairly uncommon.) From the Niners' NFL 75 throwbacks, he borrowed the idea of drop shadow numbers. Lastly, the two-tone striped jerseys came from European professional soccer, something the Krafts (also owners of the New England Revolution) were big fans of.

Wasn't the star-wordmark on the double-star jerseys originally on the side, like the Steelers and Jets have theirs? Then it moved under the collar at some point? Or do I have the sequence reversed? I clearly remember it switching, and pointing it out to people and getting made fun of for looking at their uniforms.

[josh1068a]

Legend has it that the Patriots' uniforms from 1995 - 1999 were inspired by the two franchises Robert Kraft (then a relatively new owner of the team) admired most: the Cowboys and the 49ers. From the Cowboys' 1994 alternate uniforms, he borrowed the idea of the stars on the shoulders and put the Flying Elvis on the shoulders..from that same uniform he also borrowed the idea of putting a logo / wordmark just below the collar (at that time still fairly uncommon.) From the Niners' NFL 75 throwbacks, he borrowed the idea of drop shadow numbers. Lastly, the two-tone striped jerseys came from European professional soccer, something the Krafts (also owners of the New England Revolution) were big fans of.

Wasn't the star-wordmark on the double-star jerseys originally on the side, like the Steelers and Jets have theirs? Then it moved under the collar at some point? Or do I have the sequence reversed? I clearly remember it switching, and pointing it out to people and getting made fun of for looking at their uniforms.

You are correct. The very first time the Cowboys wore the jerseys, the tiny logo/wordmark was to the left (a la Steelers and Jets.) After one game, it was moved to center below the collar. No idea why that happened, but it did.

[Mings]

I take it you wouldn't see an issue with Celtic FC wearing orange, eh?

If I actually gave a crap about soccer in general, I wouldn't see a problem with that.

Oh boy.

Celtic FC is the premier Catholic club in the Scottish Premier League. The Rangers are the premier Protestant club in the SPL. Catholic/Protestant tensions in the British Isles came to a head in 1688 when the Catholic King James II/VII managed to piss the Protestant Parliament off to the point where they asked his staunchly Protestant son-in-law, the Dutch William of Orange, to invade and take the crown. He took them up on the offer, and James' forces in Britain abandoned him for William. James retreated to Ireland, which was predominantly Catholic. William followed him over, however, and defeated him at the Battle of the Boyne, forcing James to flee to France.

Orange, in the British context, thus became the colour of Protestantism (remember, William was the head of the Dutch House of Orange), most visible through the Orange Order, a Protestant organization with branches throughout the Commonwealth that celebrate the Protestant heritage of the British Empire and celebrate William's victory at the Boyne. Dressing Celtic FC, a Catholic club, in orange would not go over well to say the least.

My point is that often times colours have very concrete meanings, especially when you base your club's identity off of a historical figure, group of people, or concept. You won't see the Columbus Blue Jackets wearing grey sweaters for the same reason Celtic FC won't be wearing orange; it's the colour of the enemy of the team's historical namesake. So why not logically extent this to the New England Patriots?

Besides, you hate Pat (with good reason, as he is he's a terrible logo). I'd have guessed you would support any argument that argues against him taking the field

Dude are you in my English History class? That is what we covered last Tuesday.

[IceCap]

I take it you wouldn't see an issue with Celtic FC wearing orange, eh?

If I actually gave a crap about soccer in general, I wouldn't see a problem with that.

Oh boy.

Celtic FC is the premier Catholic club in the Scottish Premier League. The Rangers are the premier Protestant club in the SPL. Catholic/Protestant tensions in the British Isles came to a head in 1688 when the Catholic King James II/VII managed to piss the Protestant Parliament off to the point where they asked his staunchly Protestant son-in-law, the Dutch William of Orange, to invade and take the crown. He took them up on the offer, and James' forces in Britain abandoned him for William. James retreated to Ireland, which was predominantly Catholic. William followed him over, however, and defeated him at the Battle of the Boyne, forcing James to flee to France.

Orange, in the British context, thus became the colour of Protestantism (remember, William was the head of the Dutch House of Orange), most visible through the Orange Order, a Protestant organization with branches throughout the Commonwealth that celebrate the Protestant heritage of the British Empire and celebrate William's victory at the Boyne. Dressing Celtic FC, a Catholic club, in orange would not go over well to say the least.

My point is that often times colours have very concrete meanings, especially when you base your club's identity off of a historical figure, group of people, or concept. You won't see the Columbus Blue Jackets wearing grey sweaters for the same reason Celtic FC won't be wearing orange; it's the colour of the enemy of the team's historical namesake. So why not logically extent this to the New England Patriots?

Besides, you hate Pat (with good reason, as he is he's a terrible logo). I'd have guessed you would support any argument that argues against him taking the field

Dude are you in my English History class? That is what we covered last Tuesday.

Four years and countless essays on British and Imperial/Commonwealth history my friend. Four long, tyring years....

I do hate Pat Patriot, as well as the red uniforms, but not because of a historical reason that has diddly crap to do with the franchise.

It does have something to do with the franchise though. The Patriots, throughout their entire history, have based their team's identity around American soldiers from the Revolution. Soldiers who primarily fought an enemy that dressed in red. The team made that historical connection themselves when they decided to homage those soldiers with their name. The Blue Jackets won't wear grey, Celtic FC won't wear orange, and the Patriots should avoid wearing red.

My reasoning is that every version of the red uniforms were total ugly eyesores with too many stripes and a blobby, muddled helmet logo.

Pat does suck, but I like the uniforms themselves, red coat arguments no withstanding. They tend to come off as slightly generic, but they're not the worst things in the world. They're better then some of the stuff that's out there today anyway.

They also represent embarrassing memories like the locker room sexual harassment scandal, the Sullivans having to live in the owners' box at Foxboro Stadium because they actually LOST money on a Michael Jackson concert, and the Bears using the Patriots as toilet paper in the Super Bowl. That should be enough to keep those red uniforms off the field entirely.

Agreed.

I had no idea there were religious teams in soccer, BTW.

Just like Montreal had two NHL teams for years (the Canadiens to represent the French and the Maroons to represent the English), Glasgow has two SPL teams, one to represent Protestants, the other to represent Catholics. When you're dealing with teams that have been around for a while in a country with a long history of religious tension things that soccer teams with religious affiliations aren't so strange.

My point, again, is that there's a very good historical reason why Celtic FC won't wear orange. So you extend the logic there to a similar situation with the Patriots, and the red coat argument holds up.