Wisconsin-Nebraska Football - who should change?

[KJTALBOT]

I think it would be cool if the home team wears a special red helmet for the Nebraska - Wisconsin game. Wisconsin would just be an inverse. Nebraska could use the Block N from their logo.

[PackerBadger]

Regardless of Saturday's score, this ?

? looks better than this:

Abso-freaking-lutely.

White-white-white is so boring. Gimme white-red-white and white-white-red.

In addition to the CARDINAL, I could see:

(1) Either getting rid of the jersey stripes, or putting them somewhere besides where they are now, which is basically never-neverland. (The '60s jerseys had contrast-color sleeve cuffs.)

(2) Either TV numbers or bicep numbers, but not halfway-in-between numbers as now.

(3) Ditching the helmet stripes, given how large the motion W already is. Or going with the Tennessee Titans disappearing helmet stripes.

(4) Some kind of different pants stripes -- maybe the Carolina Panthers V with the motion W inside.

(5) The Badger don't-call-it-Aachen font, although thinner than now because otherwise the circular numbers will be hard to read (2 vs. 5, 6 vs. 9, 3 vs. 8, etc.).

[OnWis97]

In addition to the CARDINAL, I could see:

(1) Either getting rid of the jersey stripes, or putting them somewhere besides where they are now, which is basically never-neverland. (The '60s jerseys had contrast-color sleeve cuffs.)

(2) Either TV numbers or bicep numbers, but not halfway-in-between numbers as now.

(3) Ditching the helmet stripes, given how large the motion W already is. Or going with the Tennessee Titans disappearing helmet stripes.

(4) Some kind of different pants stripes -- maybe the Carolina Panthers V with the motion W inside.

(5) The Badger don't-call-it-Aachen font, although thinner than now because otherwise the circular numbers will be hard to read (2 vs. 5, 6 vs. 9, 3 vs. 8, etc.).

I'd rather not see 3-5, but as for likelyhood:

(1) This I could live with. Now that the sleeves are gone, these are very out of place. I'd like colts stripes (though Nebraska already almost looks like colts stripes), cuffs, or none. I think they'll try to stick with what they have though.

(2) I think they may move the TV numbers to the shoulders. I hope so. Just admit that it does not fit like it used to.

(3) I hope not. I love the stripes. I also love the NY Jets stripes...guess I just like the middle stripe matching the shell. I don't think they'll mess with this. It's something that is different from Nebraska anyway and I think the current helmet is the symbol of the program's success.

(4) I love the pants stripes, as they match the helmet (and I just love that simple style of stripes). I think it's possible they'll switch (but maybe Nebraska should, to try to match their helmet).

(5) Very possible. I assume you refer to the font on the b-ball uniforms. This is something they use a lot (just not for football/hockey, both of which have traditional uniforms) I hope not. I like block numbers, though...almost every time. I'd prefer (and I know most will disagree) the superfluous "white on red on white" extra outline style if they want to distinguish (Like Brees-era Purdue).

Also, is it actually confirmed that Barry Alverez consciously tried to "Nebraskize" the uniforms? It seems that jerseys became less "Cardinal" in the early 80s and the two thick sleeve stripes (which have since become thinner than Nebraska) definitely pre-dated Barry.

[STL FANATIC]

How about they change to Nike?

My biggest problem with both teams sets is that Adidas doesn't tailor the sleeves properly. Both schools are supposed to have sleeve stripes, but they end up with something between a sleeve and shoulder stripe as the stripe is on the sleeve but arches vertically downward instead of wrapping the sleeve. (And this isn't about not going all the way around--just about no stripes do that anymore, and I understand that.)

Adidas tailors the sleeves by pulling the inside of the sleeves down an in, thus creating that problem. Nike more properly tailors the sleeves by simply bringing the inside of the sleeve straight across horizontally. Looks so much better.

Also, Nebraska really should add a second stripe to their helmet or lose one on the pants. (I can deal with the sleeves being doubled up on the pants or helmet, but the helmet and pants should match each other). It wouldn't hurt to use their actual N logo also.

And Wisconsin should just drop the shadow on the W or incorporate it everywhere.

[PackerBadger]

How about they change to Nike?

Not happening in UW's case.

[mcrosby]

Since, I read, UW is putting in a new field at Camp Randall, maybe this is their opportunity for CARDINAL and red.

Where did you read this?

[denkerprime]

i agree with the people who say dont change. i mean, come on people, if you want these two teams to change, then we have to look at every sport. how many teams are the same/very similar? i would put it at around 40% of all sports teams.

but this argument is in direct violation of internets boards. haha. oh.

[TheOldRoman]

i agree with the people who say dont change. i mean, come on people, if you want these two teams to change, then we have to look at every sport. how many teams are the same/very similar? i would put it at around 40% of all sports teams.

but this argument is in direct violation of internets boards. haha. oh.

I can't think of two other sports teams in the same league which have identical uniforms in color and style (minus an additional helmet stripe), but maybe that is just me.

[PackerBadger]

Since, I read, UW is putting in a new field at Camp Randall, maybe this is their opportunity for CARDINAL and red.

Where did you read this?

Here.

[PackerBadger]

In addition to the CARDINAL, I could see:

(1) Either getting rid of the jersey stripes, or putting them somewhere besides where they are now, which is basically never-neverland. (The '60s jerseys had contrast-color sleeve cuffs.)

(2) Either TV numbers or bicep numbers, but not halfway-in-between numbers as now.

(3) Ditching the helmet stripes, given how large the motion W already is. Or going with the Tennessee Titans disappearing helmet stripes.

(4) Some kind of different pants stripes -- maybe the Carolina Panthers V with the motion W inside.

(5) The Badger don't-call-it-Aachen font, although thinner than now because otherwise the circular numbers will be hard to read (2 vs. 5, 6 vs. 9, 3 vs. 8, etc.).

I'd rather not see 3-5, but as for likelyhood:

(1) This I could live with. Now that the sleeves are gone, these are very out of place. I'd like colts stripes (though Nebraska already almost looks like colts stripes), cuffs, or none. I think they'll try to stick with what they have though.

(2) I think they may move the TV numbers to the shoulders. I hope so. Just admit that it does not fit like it used to.

(3) I hope not. I love the stripes. I also love the NY Jets stripes...guess I just like the middle stripe matching the shell. I don't think they'll mess with this. It's something that is different from Nebraska anyway and I think the current helmet is the symbol of the program's success.

(4) I love the pants stripes, as they match the helmet (and I just love that simple style of stripes). I think it's possible they'll switch (but maybe Nebraska should, to try to match their helmet).

(5) Very possible. I assume you refer to the font on the b-ball uniforms. This is something they use a lot (just not for football/hockey, both of which have traditional uniforms) I hope not. I like block numbers, though...almost every time. I'd prefer (and I know most will disagree) the superfluous "white on red on white" extra outline style if they want to distinguish (Like Brees-era Purdue).

Also, is it actually confirmed that Barry Alverez consciously tried to "Nebraskize" the uniforms? It seems that jerseys became less "Cardinal" in the early 80s and the two thick sleeve stripes (which have since become thinner than Nebraska) definitely pre-dated Barry.

(2) The TV numbers should go wherever they are most visible from the main camera locations at Camp Randall. I think that's an argument for biceps instead of shoulders, but I'm not in love with one over the other.

(3-4) I'd agree with helmet stripes = jersey stripes = pants stripes.

As for the Alvarez/Bielema era unis, that is a conclusion based on visual evidence, not anything Alvarez said. (As if he'd admit to changing the uniforms to match his alma mater's -- which, IIRC, had the Colts stripes and a typewriter-like font when Alvarez played for Nebraska.) He said at the time he wanted to "clean up" the uniforms, which probably really meant "let's erase any vestige of the moron who preceded me here."

[Markmansion]

How about BOTH teams keep them the same and anyone who can't read the team name on the score bar can be slapped in the face. And if you are actually at the game and can't tell who is playing then you have problems.

<img> Stupid Picture </img>

That doesn't really fit...

Sure it does. Stomping your feet and saying "anyone who doesn't agree with me should be slapped" and building a strawman about the people who disagree with you is more than fitting. Yes, I could tell by the giant W on Wisconsin's helmet that they are the Badgers and not Cornhuskers. Still there is no reason why two schools, let alone two schools in the same conference, should have identical uniforms except for a chest patch, helmet decal and one extra helmet stripe. It is even worse considering Wisconsin's school color is different, and they ackonwledged ditching their color and stealing their look from Nebraska.

Is it earthshattering that sports teams should consider branding and distinguishing themselves? What the heck do we talk about on this board? People complain about every other MLB using red-white-blue, yet it is A-OK for two college football teams who will play almost every year to have not just the same colors, but carbon copy unis? Why not just put each team in Raiders unis with different logos and say "If you can't tell who is playing by the helmet logos and players you are a moron?"

Thank you Dr. Phil. Let me rephrase that.

Both teams should keep their uniforms the same because they will only play each other once in a while. When they do people can simply deduce who is who by observing all the graphics on the screen. No one is an idiot if they are incapable of such a task.

[guest23]

If Wisconsin were to change their red jersey to the darker version of red on their 'W' helmet logo, then we'd have a post created on here complaining that they look too much like Indiana.

You may be right, but let's get our reds straight:

NEBRASKA: Scarlet and cream

OHIO STATE: Scarlet and gray

WISCONSIN: Cardinal and white

INDIANA: Cream and crimson

MINNESOTA: Maroon and gold

UW should be darker than Nebraska and Ohio State, but lighter than Indiana. (As it is, the above photo looks as if they stole the Kansas City Chiefs' red pants.)

And for that matter, perhaps the answer is for Nebraska to replace its white with cream. (Makes you wonder why America's Dairyland didn't have cream as a color for its world class university.)

for the average college fan and when viewing on television without graphics or when sitting in the stands the identities are much more simple:

NEBRASKA: red and white

OHIO STATE: red and silver

WISCONSIN: red and white

INDIANA: dark red and white

MINNESOTA: Maroon and yellow

therein lies the problem between wisconsin and nebraska...the only unique identifiers between the two uniforms are the number of stripes on the helmet and the letter on the side...if the big 10 is going to pretend that they are the premier conference in the nation...as others have mentioned they can't have 2 schools play each other that has the visual appearance of a spring game...talk about second rate...for a textbook example on how to have distinct and iconic football colors look no further than the pac 12...there is no way in hell that anyone is going to mistake one school for another in the stands or on tv.

[TheOldRoman]

Thank you Dr. Phil. Let me rephrase that.

Both teams should keep their uniforms the same because they will only play each other once in a while. When they do people can simply deduce who is who by observing all the graphics on the screen. No one is an idiot if they are incapable of such a task.

Okay, once again, this is not only an issue when the two teams play, and we can all tell which team is playing based on the helmet decal and the TV graphics. Nobody is arguing that, but you seem to be arguing that branding is irrelevant in uniform design. If "you can tell who is playing by the screen graphics" then why even design uniforms? Give each team the same uni with different decals and let the fans read the graphics to see who is playing.

[Markmansion]

Thank you Dr. Phil. Let me rephrase that.

Both teams should keep their uniforms the same because they will only play each other once in a while. When they do people can simply deduce who is who by observing all the graphics on the screen. No one is an idiot if they are incapable of such a task.

Okay, once again, this is not only an issue when the two teams play, and we can all tell which team is playing based on the helmet decal and the TV graphics. Nobody is arguing that, but you seem to be arguing that branding is irrelevant in uniform design. If "you can tell who is playing by the screen graphics" then why even design uniforms? Give each team the same uni with different decals and let the fans read the graphics to see who is playing.

You keep blowing things way out of proportion and suggesting ridiculous situations. I only said that each team keep their current unis. Your making it sound like I would suggest both teams or all of college football for that matter go to a white helmet/pants and red jersey scheme and only a different helmet decal and people can read the screen to figure out who is playing. Come on man.

I just don't see why people can't look at the score bar for ONE time to establish if it's Wisconsin or Nebraska or whoever else is playing for that matter. I get it that they will be in the same conference and if someone is watching TV they may not know right away which of the "red" Big Ten teams are playing but that problem already existed before they were in the same conference.

Both teams have reason to keep their current unis, if one team wants to change their identity then good for them.

[whitedawg22]

i agree with the people who say dont change. i mean, come on people, if you want these two teams to change, then we have to look at every sport. how many teams are the same/very similar? i would put it at around 40% of all sports teams.

but this argument is in direct violation of internets boards. haha. oh.

I can't think of two other sports teams in the same league which have identical uniforms in color and style (minus an additional helmet stripe), but maybe that is just me.

You're splitting hairs here. Boston College and Florida State are similar enough, as were Maryland (pre-Under Armour crapfest) and NC State. As an earlier poster mentioned, Notre Dame and Navy play every year and have essentially identical uniforms. Other similar examples are Texas A&M and Oklahoma, or New Mexico and UNLV (if anyone cares about this one). I know this is a sports logos community, and we revel in minutiae, but saying one team should change because they look similar to another in their league is really plumbing the depths of useless discussions. Plus, we're talking about two pretty iconic looks - Nebraska has had theirs forever (minus a short stretch of Adidas-inspired wackery in the late-90s) and Wisconsin has experienced most of the program's historical success since adopting theirs 20 years ago.

[TruColor]

Comparison:

For the record, Ohio State's Scarlet and Wisconsin's Cardinal are exactly the same.

[PackerBadger]

Comparison:

For the record, Ohio State's Scarlet and Wisconsin's Cardinal are exactly the same.

So (Ohio State) Scarlet = (Wisconsin) Cardinal, but (Ohio State) Scarlet ≠ (Nebraska) Scarlet.

[guest23]

i agree with the people who say dont change. i mean, come on people, if you want these two teams to change, then we have to look at every sport. how many teams are the same/very similar? i would put it at around 40% of all sports teams.

but this argument is in direct violation of internets boards. haha. oh.

I can't think of two other sports teams in the same league which have identical uniforms in color and style (minus an additional helmet stripe), but maybe that is just me.

You're splitting hairs here. Boston College and Florida State are similar enough, as were Maryland (pre-Under Armour crapfest) and NC State. As an earlier poster mentioned, Notre Dame and Navy play every year and have essentially identical uniforms. Other similar examples are Texas A&M and Oklahoma, or New Mexico and UNLV (if anyone cares about this one). I know this is a sports logos community, and we revel in minutiae, but saying one team should change because they look similar to another in their league is really plumbing the depths of useless discussions. Plus, we're talking about two pretty iconic looks - Nebraska has had theirs forever (minus a short stretch of Adidas-inspired wackery in the late-90s) and Wisconsin has experienced most of the program's historical success since adopting theirs 20 years ago.

each of those examples have ate least one distinguishing characteristic that makes them unique: spears on helmet/no helmet logo and solid pants vs. striped, black side paneling and yellow trim vs. red and white, navy masks and NAVY on the front, maroon and white with pipinng with A&M on front vs. SOONERS on front with striped pants, two silver and red disasters.

this is the opposite of splitting hairs...the looks are beyond similar and nearly identical to the point of a game between the two looking like a spring game...I think wisconsin should adopt a modern version of the W W dark red throwback and go back to an original identity instead of the husker knock off.

[TruColor]

So (Ohio State) Scarlet = (Wisconsin) Cardinal, but (Ohio State) Scarlet ≠ (Nebraska) Scarlet.

Yep.

Reason #1023758 why color descriptions don't mean diddly.

[andrewharrington]

So (Ohio State) Scarlet = (Wisconsin) Cardinal, but (Ohio State) Scarlet ≠ (Nebraska) Scarlet.

Yep.

Reason #1023758 why color descriptions don't mean diddly.

Or reason #1023758 why color descriptions need to be standardized. There should be a scale, i.e., any color in this range is the 'scarlet' family and any color in that range is in the 'crimson' family. Or, PANTONE® just needs to start laying down the law and flexing their power by assigning their colors official names and adopting that as the standard, so there's only one official 'burgundy' and one official 'maroon.'