2011 NFL Offseason Thread

[BlueSky]

"how's this Olin Kreutz?"

"old, undisciplined, can't snap a ball, screwed up his negotiations and took a 50% pay cut because he got butthurt"

"well we'll just have to see about THAT!"

Haha, what an exchange. If it were fumbled any worse, I'd say Olin Kreutz himself did it!

EDIT: I forgot, he can't run a shotgun. have fun

Nice. You must be a real insider. The truth is, all any of us know is what we get from the media. You're also totally dismissing the effect attitude can have on a player's performance.

I'll admit, I'd be tempted to rag Reggie Bush to Miami fans based on his play in New Orleans, but who knows? Some guys blossom after a change of pace. God knows he'll love the South Beach scene and being in a bigger media market.

So I'll stand by "we'll see." Because wait and see (and hope for the best) is all we can do.

[The_Admiral]

Okay, so now you're going with "years of steady decline are no match for New Orleans Saints Pixie Dust." Okay. I mean, you asked if he was good, you were told no, then you said he might be good anyway because the Saints don't make mistakes. I wasn't going to pretend that that dialogue was anything other than odd and stupid. Sorry.

Oh, and I don't know much in life, but I'm pretty certain that 13-year-veteran offensive linemen tend not to "blossom." Not even in New Orleans.

I don't know, maybe it's just that I really resent the whole Olin Kreutz thing and how it's been the top sports story for days. He was a jerk to the media, he was a jerk to his teammates, he was a liability to his quarterbacks, and even at his peak his behavior wasn't counterbalanced by any quantifiable achievements because he is an offensive lineman. Pre-Cutler, having to hear that Olin Kreutz was the "head of the offense" or the Locker Room Leader™ just made the Bears look so goddamn lame, you know? Like, other teams have their offenses represented by their quarterbacks, or their running backs, or maybe even their wide receivers, but no, not us; we're all looking for leadership from our x-time all-star center. A center! One who can't even snap a ball, at that! It's like how when the Buffalo Bills could claim nothing more than Brian Moorman (this might still be extant), but at least you can point to a coffin-corner punt and say "wow, that was a really good punt." What do you say about a franchise center? "Hey, Thomas Jones just got a five-yard gain on that run up the middle. Just think, it could've been only two!"? Sigh. The Bears are basically the Bengals, except nobody ever did a Saturday Night Live sketch about the Bengals.

So in conclusion, enjoy your crappy old guy.

[The_Admiral]

The Bears had to cancel their big open-to-the-public Soldier Field practice because the field wasn't ready. This is so bush-league.

[Sodboy13]

The Bears had to cancel their big open-to-the-public Soldier Field practice because the field wasn't ready. This is so bush-league.

Well, there's a new low. Beats the time in '94 when they had to play the Saints in a sand pit because the HBCU College Football Marching Band Showcase ruined the turf the day before. Wow, that was 17 years ago, and literally nothing's been done to improve it.

There's some interesting behind-the-scenes stuff from the run-up to the cancellation, too. Not putting that here, though.

UPDATE: The team is headed back to Bourbonnais for a closed practice. Fans who were waiting outside Soldier Field for over an hour will now be let in, given free food and drinks, and a fireworks show at some point. In a way, this makes sense, as it prepares Bears fans for the upcoming 8 times this year at Soldier Field when the Bears probably won't show up.

[The_Admiral]

There's some interesting behind-the-scenes stuff from the run-up to the cancellation, too. Not putting that here, though.

PM

[CS85]

You've peaked my interest. PM share?

[ninersdd]

Floyd will remain a San Diego Charger.

[BlueSky]

Okay, so now you're going with "years of steady decline are no match for New Orleans Saints Pixie Dust." Okay. I mean, you asked if he was good, you were told no, then you said he might be good anyway because the Saints don't make mistakes. I wasn't going to pretend that that dialogue was anything other than odd and stupid. Sorry.

Oh, and I don't know much in life, but I'm pretty certain that 13-year-veteran offensive linemen tend not to "blossom." Not even in New Orleans.

I don't know, maybe it's just that I really resent the whole Olin Kreutz thing and how it's been the top sports story for days. He was a jerk to the media, he was a jerk to his teammates, he was a liability to his quarterbacks, and even at his peak his behavior wasn't counterbalanced by any quantifiable achievements because he is an offensive lineman. Pre-Cutler, having to hear that Olin Kreutz was the "head of the offense" or the Locker Room Leader™ just made the Bears look so goddamn lame, you know? Like, other teams have their offenses represented by their quarterbacks, or their running backs, or maybe even their wide receivers, but no, not us; we're all looking for leadership from our x-time all-star center. A center! One who can't even snap a ball, at that! It's like how when the Buffalo Bills could claim nothing more than Brian Moorman (this might still be extant), but at least you can point to a coffin-corner punt and say "wow, that was a really good punt." What do you say about a franchise center? "Hey, Thomas Jones just got a five-yard gain on that run up the middle. Just think, it could've been only two!"? Sigh. The Bears are basically the Bengals, except nobody ever did a Saturday Night Live sketch about the Bengals.

So in conclusion, enjoy your crappy old guy.

Wow, where to start? First, glad you're not bitter. Second, I said the Saints seldom, not never, make mistakes. And yeah, I was told he's no good...by some guy posting on an internet board. So my point was that maybe, just maybe, Super Bowl-winning coaches and GMs are more competent and reliable judges of a player's worth than that random guy posting on an internet board. Especially when the coach and GM are risking millions of dollars on that judgement.

I think the second bolded statement wraps up your attitude here. No offense taken. I've been there. All I'll say is that I try - without a 100% success rate, but try - to be more reasonable, balanced, and just plain courteous than you've been here. But if ranting helps you feel better, who I am to complain?

[BBTV]

So why did you ask for people's opinions?

[BlueSky]

So why did you ask for people's opinions?

Because 1) at the time there all I knew was he was visiting New Orleans and 2) while I could look up his achievements, I hoped to get something more objective from a fan perspective. These guys are clearly bitter and wouldn't be bitching if he'd returned to Chicago. The incompetent idiot they described, who is supposedly incapable of snapping a football or having a conversation without committing assault, is also a multi-year Pro Bowl selectee and was on the NFL's All-Decade team for the 2000s. Yeah, obviously a downgrade.

I get that he's not in his prime, and that if he doesn't pan out I'll probably hear about it in here. So be it. But if he's just a solid starter, the Saints should be okay, and that's what I was trying to figure out.

[Seadragon76]

Plus, didn't the Saints need a center after they lost their old center via free agency?

This works well for New Orleans. They get someone who can replace the old center and has experience at his position, which I assume is good for New Orleans.

[Billy B]

So why did you ask for people's opinions?

Because 1) at the time there all I knew was he was visiting New Orleans and 2) while I could look up his achievements, I hoped to get something more objective from a fan perspective. These guys are clearly bitter and wouldn't be bitching if he'd returned to Chicago. The incompetent idiot they described, who is supposedly incapable of snapping a football or having a conversation without committing assault, is also a multi-year Pro Bowl selectee and was on the NFL's All-Decade team for the 2000s. Yeah, obviously a downgrade.

I get that he's not in his prime, and that if he doesn't pan out I'll probably hear about it in here. So be it. But if he's just a solid starter, the Saints should be okay, and that's what I was trying to figure out.

Yeah, he's been the starter here the entire decade, but the admiral's analysis isn't far off. And he's not just bashing him because Kreutz is gone, I can remember him posting about his inability to snap on here before. It's really not hard to snap a ball straight 5 yards behind you. He'll be a decent player for a few years, but he's definitely on the decline. I think the pretty big dropoff in his game came either the year after the Super Bowl or another year later.

[Cujo]

It's now official. Derrick Mason to the Jets.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, he's been the starter here the entire decade, but the admiral's analysis isn't far off. And he's not just bashing him because Kreutz is gone, I can remember him posting about his inability to snap on here before. It's really not hard to snap a ball straight 5 yards behind you.

MAAAYBE kruetz.

Olin Kreutz struggles with snapping the ball, which isn't good when that's the primary responsibility at your position.

I'd be disdainful of Olin Kreutz too if I kept getting pancaked behind him or dealing with his dwindling ability to snap a football, and when your receivers seemingly live on another planet like Knox and Hester do, everyone is distant. It's so hard to assess anything interpersonal about Cutler when he's so thoroughly surrounded by jackasses.

I am nothing if not consistent.

[BBTV]

Yeah, he's been the starter here the entire decade, but the admiral's analysis isn't far off. And he's not just bashing him because Kreutz is gone, I can remember him posting about his inability to snap on here before. It's really not hard to snap a ball straight 5 yards behind you.

MAAAYBE kruetz.

Olin Kreutz struggles with snapping the ball, which isn't good when that's the primary responsibility at your position.

I'd be disdainful of Olin Kreutz too if I kept getting pancaked behind him or dealing with his dwindling ability to snap a football, and when your receivers seemingly live on another planet like Knox and Hester do, everyone is distant. It's so hard to assess anything interpersonal about Cutler when he's so thoroughly surrounded by jackasses.

I am nothing if not consistent.

But you don't get it - he's a Saint now. Besides - nobody asked for your opinion.

[BlueSky]

Yeah, he's been the starter here the entire decade, but the admiral's analysis isn't far off. And he's not just bashing him because Kreutz is gone, I can remember him posting about his inability to snap on here before. It's really not hard to snap a ball straight 5 yards behind you.

MAAAYBE kruetz.

Olin Kreutz struggles with snapping the ball, which isn't good when that's the primary responsibility at your position.

I'd be disdainful of Olin Kreutz too if I kept getting pancaked behind him or dealing with his dwindling ability to snap a football, and when your receivers seemingly live on another planet like Knox and Hester do, everyone is distant. It's so hard to assess anything interpersonal about Cutler when he's so thoroughly surrounded by jackasses.

I am nothing if not consistent.

But you don't get it - he's a Saint now. Besides - nobody asked for your opinion.

BBTV, I don't get you. Usually you make a lot of sense but every now and again...

One would think you'd be too busy being excited about the Dream Team or plotting some horrific revenge on whatever Ryan it is opening his big mouth down in Dallas to get up in arms over stuff like this. In any case, sorry my (perfectly logical) explanation doesn't meet your standard, or for whatever it is that has a bug up your a** about this.

[IceCap]

If I may BlueSky, it's that you seem to be drifting into Cleveland territory.

"Cleveland's different, you just have to be from here to get it." It's that kind of attitude applied to the Saints from you that's causing these types of responses.

[BlueSky]

If I may BlueSky, it's that you seem to be drifting into Cleveland territory.

"Cleveland's different, you just have to be from here to get it." It's that kind of attitude applied to the Saints from you that's causing these types of responses.

Have to disagree. I go out of my way to try and be as balanced as any sports fan can be (nobody's 100% non-homer), and I admit when I'm being unashamedly homer.

I never said Kreutz or anyone else would magically improve because they went to New Orleans. I said a change of scene often benefits players in general (citing Reggie may be better in Miami) and that Payton & Loomis hadn't signed many duds, which is simply a fact. The question about what's wrong in Chicago based on Kreutz going elsewhere is legit - his destination has nothing to do with it.

Here are these supposedly "you're not a Saints fan so you don't get it" posts. Seriously, you think this is homer material?

===

Saints are quietly doing a fantastic job of signing their own free agents (they had 29) and picking up quality guys who will compete for playing time. (Okay, sounds moderately homer but it's still true.)

Saints lost C Jonathan Goodwin to SF; nola.com is reporting free agent C Olin Kreutz is visiting N.O. Guy seemed pretty solid with the Bears - Chicago fans, think he has anything left?

Guy turns down $4 million to stay in Chicago and I'm sure he's not getting paid that in New Orleans. Makes you wonder about things in the Windy City, doesn't it? (He could've gone to any team and this would still be a valid question.)

Well, time will tell who got the best end of the deal. But since Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton came to town, they haven't signed many duds.

The truth is, all any of us know is what we get from the media. You're also totally dismissing the effect attitude can have on a player's performance.

I'll admit, I'd be tempted to rag Reggie Bush to Miami fans based on his play in New Orleans, but who knows? Some guys blossom after a change of pace. God knows he'll love the South Beach scene and being in a bigger media market.

So I'll stand by "we'll see." Because wait and see (and hope for the best) is all we can do.

So my point was that maybe, just maybe, Super Bowl-winning coaches and GMs are more competent and reliable judges of a player's worth than that random guy posting on an internet board. Especially when the coach and GM are risking millions of dollars on that judgement.

I get that he's not in his prime, and that if he doesn't pan out I'll probably hear about it in here. So be it. But if he's just a solid starter, the Saints should be okay, and that's what I was trying to figure out.

===

Sorry, I'm not seeing it. The point of most of that is sometimes guys go to another team, whatever team that might be, and play well because it's a better situation for them. Anybody who says those are homer rantings just isn't being objective, and anybody who wants to prove any of the facts wrong, fire away. Show valid evidence and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.

[The_Admiral]

Guy turns down $4 million to stay in Chicago and I'm sure he's not getting paid that in New Orleans. Makes you wonder about things in the Windy City, doesn't it? (He could've gone to any team and this would still be a valid question.)

sigh

He turned down 4 million because he demanded 4.5 and wouldn't budge on that figure. The Bears were not lowballing him; if anything, they were offering to overpay for the continuity of having their veteran continue to anchor an otherwise untested offensive line, despite his myriad ills as an ever-aging player. He (by which I mean his agent on behalf of him and with too much input from him) walked away from 4 and instead of kowtowing to those demands, the Bears called his bluff and not only replaced him but announced they were moving on from him altogether. He quickly found out that when you take away the stupid Chicago Bears, the market for aging centers who draw fouls and fumble snaps is a very bleak one indeed, and so he had to settle for half the money he was offered and no guarantee that he'll be the starting center, to say nothing of losing the locker room equity he so loved. This is no reflection on the desire to take less money to be a glorious New Orleans Saint and is more a reflection on what happens when a stupid man hires representation that doesn't know well enough to dissociate his client from negotiations.

[BlueSky]

Guy turns down $4 million to stay in Chicago and I'm sure he's not getting paid that in New Orleans. Makes you wonder about things in the Windy City, doesn't it? (He could've gone to any team and this would still be a valid question.)

sigh

He turned down 4 million because he demanded 4.5 and wouldn't budge on that figure. The Bears were not lowballing him; if anything, they were offering to overpay for the continuity of having their veteran continue to anchor an otherwise untested offensive line, despite his myriad ills as an ever-aging player. He (by which I mean his agent on behalf of him and with too much input from him) walked away from 4 and instead of kowtowing to those demands, the Bears called his bluff and not only replaced him but announced they were moving on from him altogether. He quickly found out that when you take away the stupid Chicago Bears, the market for aging centers who draw fouls and fumble snaps is a very bleak one indeed, and so he had to settle for half the money he was offered and no guarantee that he'll be the starting center, to say nothing of losing the locker room equity he so loved. This is no reflection on the desire to take less money to be a glorious New Orleans Saint and is more a reflection on what happens when a stupid man hires representation that doesn't know well enough to dissociate his client from negotiations.

Wow, you finally bought in!

I see your point, and maybe you're right. You're definitely closer to what's going on with the Bears than I am. With that said, Lance Briggs had nothing but good things to say about Kreutz in a Sirius NFL Radio interview the other day. Briggs doesn't strike me as the type to say what other people want to hear. So maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle. In any case, as I said, we'll see how it works out. That black and gold pixie dust is strong, you know.