2011 NFL Offseason Thread

[Lights Out]

Looking at his overall record with Tampa, if the team Tony Dungy built had nothing to do with Gruden's success then why were the Bucs so mediocre for the six years following the 2002 season?

Extremely poor drafting and complacency as far as replacing players. Ultimately, that fell on Rich McKay (the GM), not Gruden.

If Gruden went to San Diego, he would instantly inherit way more talent than he had in his final years in Tampa. Not only that, but he would have a group of talent that NEED his energetic, motivational coaching style. He'd also be a great foil for Rivers as they're both really firey, competitive guys with a passion for the game. I think it would be a perfect fit.

[infrared41]

Looking at his overall record with Tampa, if the team Tony Dungy built had nothing to do with Gruden's success then why were the Bucs so mediocre for the six years following the 2002 season?

Extremely poor drafting and complacency as far as replacing players. Ultimately, that fell on Rich McKay (the GM), not Gruden.

If Gruden went to San Diego, he would instantly inherit way more talent than he had in his final years in Tampa. Not only that, but he would have a group of talent that NEED his energetic, motivational coaching style. He'd also be a great foil for Rivers as they're both really firey, competitive guys with a passion for the game. I think it would be a perfect fit.

Right up until Bruce Allen came over from the Raiders in 2004 and gave Gruden the GM he wanted. So what's the excuse after that? And do you really think Gruden had no say on draft picks with McKay?

No offense my friend, but you're just a fan. You have no idea what the Chargers need or don't need in a coach. I realize that to a fan of a team being coached by Norv Turner that Gruden seems like a dream come true but as I said earlier, be careful what you wish for. Gruden is indeed "intense", "fiery", "competitive", and every other coaching term that gets ESPN hard for the guy. But at the end of the day he's still lousy with personnel decisions and his coaching record really isn't that great. Then there's this, name one "great" coach that won a Super Bowl, retired, got fired, whatever, then came back win another one. Bill Parcells, who I think we can agree has a much better track record than Gruden, wasn't able to do it. Neither was "fiery/intense" coach Ditka. Hell, even Vince Lombardi couldn't do it.

It's just my opinion and I don't know a thing about what the Chargers need but, if they insist on hiring a retread then I think Jeff Fisher is a much better choice. Not that any of this matters anyway, it doesn't look like your buddy Norv is going anywhere any time soon.

Just my opinion.

[Drakonius26]

Looking at his overall record with Tampa, if the team Tony Dungy built had nothing to do with Gruden's success then why were the Bucs so mediocre for the six years following the 2002 season?

Extremely poor drafting and complacency as far as replacing players. Ultimately, that fell on Rich McKay (the GM), not Gruden.

If Gruden went to San Diego, he would instantly inherit way more talent than he had in his final years in Tampa. Not only that, but he would have a group of talent that NEED his energetic, motivational coaching style. He'd also be a great foil for Rivers as they're both really firey, competitive guys with a passion for the game. I think it would be a perfect fit.

Right up until Bruce Allen came over from the Raiders in 2004 and gave Gruden the GM he wanted. So what's the excuse after that? And do you really think Gruden had no say on draft picks with McKay?

No offense my friend, but you're just a fan. You have no idea what the Chargers need or don't need in a coach. I realize that to a fan of a team being coached by Norv Turner that Gruden seems like a dream come true but as I said earlier, be careful what you wish for. Gruden is indeed "intense", "fiery", "competitive", and every other coaching term that gets ESPN hard for the guy. But at the end of the day he's still lousy with personnel decisions and his coaching record really isn't that great. Then there's this, name one "great" coach that won a Super Bowl, retired, got fired, whatever, then came back win another one. Bill Parcells, who I think we can agree has a much better track record than Gruden, wasn't able to do it. Neither was "fiery/intense" coach Ditka. Hell, even Vince Lombardi couldn't do it.

It's just my opinion and I don't know a thing about what the Chargers need but, if they insist on hiring a retread then I think Jeff Fisher is a much better choice. Not that any of this matters anyway, it doesn't look like your buddy Norv is going anywhere any time soon.

Just my opinion.

Well, he did die, so that's not really fair to say after barely a year with the Redskins. At least he improved their jerseys, while he was there. I believe he was 7-5-2 that year, which wasn't too bad either. Who knows what he could've done, but Bill Parcells on the other hand is a perfect example.

I agree with Infrared on this one, Lights Out. Your main priority should be getting rid of that egotistical General Manager, who nearly ran off a solid left tackle and wide receiver in Marcus McNeill, and Vincent Jackson. Not to mention, he was too cheap to keep either LaDainian Tomlinson or Michael Turner, then drafted... Ryan Mathews. He's going to be the guy to replace a possible Hall of Fame runningback, and a solid starter in this league... is A.J. Smith retarded? Then, you have Shawne Merriman, who is pretty much a bust, primarily because his good play was a result of using performance-enhancing drugs, but here's the best thing... he's glad he's out of San Diego? Are you kidding me? You're happy to be in Buffalo, New York over San Diego, California? Sweet Christ... is this day of free-agency, San Diego on looks alone should be racking up the best free agents alone on name value. You combine that with decent draft classes, and the Chargers should have at least a Super Bowl to show for it. A.J. Smith thinks he's Scott Pioli or Bill Belichick, but in all reality he isn't, so if I was Dean I'd tell him to stop playing moneyball with the players, or take Norvell Turner and get the out of San Diego. Sadly, whether it was Gene Kline or Dean Spanos, the Chargers franchise has always been known for acquiring loads of talent and then refusing to pay or straight up being cheap. If I wanted a coach, it wouldn't be Gruden, it wouldn't be Dungy, maybe it would be Fisher... but really Tomlin is going to have a ton of leverage if he wins the Super Bowl, so not only would I grab him, but I'd grab Kevin Colbert too. Why? Think about it, proven track record, San Diego is a lot more alluring than Pittsburgh, and I'd pay them a hell of a lot more than what the Rooney's could ever pay/or want to pay either of them. If you can't beat 'em, raid 'em of their talented people.

[HedleyLamarr]

You're dumb as hell if you think the Chargers can lure Mike Tomlin away from Pittsburgh....especially when the Steelers are known for their excellent job security.

[illwauk]

Eagles to 'franchise' Vick, Kolb now being shopped

Don't ask why, but I have a feeling this is gonna end badly for the Eagles...

[BlueSky]

Eagles to 'franchise' Vick, Kolb now being shopped

Don't ask why, but I have a feeling this is gonna end badly for the Eagles...

A distinct possibility. As a metro Atlanta resident, I had a front-row seat for the whole Vick fiasco and his body language is beginning to look at lot like it did then, i.e. arrogant and untouchable. I hoped I'm wrong; my hope is he's really changed. But even if he has, as great as he looked on the field at times last season, at other times he looked terribly human. That trait - maddening inconsistency - was another hallmark of the Vick years in Atlanta.

Turning to the "Pro" Bowl - that was as hideous a walk-through as they've ever had in that game - did anybody see Tony Gonzalez' interview with Jay Glazer, and/or hear Jason Witten's comments about Gonzalez? Didn't realize Tony was such an ass.

[Jigga]

Eagles to 'franchise' Vick, Kolb now being shopped

Don't ask why, but I have a feeling this is gonna end badly for the Eagles...

A distinct possibility. As a metro Atlanta resident, I had a front-row seat for the whole Vick fiasco and his body language is beginning to look at lot like it did then, i.e. arrogant and untouchable. I hoped I'm wrong; my hope is he's really changed. But even if he has, as great as he looked on the field at times last season, at other times he looked terribly human. That trait - maddening inconsistency - was another hallmark of the Vick years in Atlanta.

Turning to the "Pro" Bowl - that was as hideous a walk-through as they've ever had in that game - did anybody see Tony Gonzalez' interview with Jay Glazer, and/or hear Jason Witten's comments about Gonzalez? Didn't realize Tony was such an ass.

Ooooh, Pro Bowl gossip! What did Jason Witten say about Tony Gonzalez? What did Gonzalez say to Jay Glazer? Inquiring minds (who can't bring themselves to watch the Pro Bowl) want to know!

[BBTV]

Eagles to 'franchise' Vick, Kolb now being shopped

Don't ask why, but I have a feeling this is gonna end badly for the Eagles...

A distinct possibility. As a metro Atlanta resident, I had a front-row seat for the whole Vick fiasco and his body language is beginning to look at lot like it did then, i.e. arrogant and untouchable. I hoped I'm wrong; my hope is he's really changed. But even if he has, as great as he looked on the field at times last season, at other times he looked terribly human. That trait - maddening inconsistency - was another hallmark of the Vick years in Atlanta.

Turning to the "Pro" Bowl - that was as hideous a walk-through as they've ever had in that game - did anybody see Tony Gonzalez' interview with Jay Glazer, and/or hear Jason Witten's comments about Gonzalez? Didn't realize Tony was such an ass.

Going to have to disagree with you there - he's been absolutely the opposite. As opposed to McNabb, who rarely (if ever) did any local radio or TV interviews, and also rarely went out to the schools or talked to people on the streets (as if he was a Michael Jackson -esque mega star who couldn't be spoken to or looked at directly), Vick has been (sort of) humble and more than willing to come on local radio and TV and speak to people, go to schools and interact with the kids, and has been by all accounts a model citizen. Don't get me wrong - as I've said before I don't want this to happen because there is only one strike left and who knows how a contract will change him, but I really disagree with your assessment. He has a natural "smirk" on his face, and he's really soft spoken and at times doesn't come accross like he's comfortable in front of cameras and doesn't go out of his way to articulate, which I think is where the perception of arrogance comes from, but I think that's just how he is, and it shouldn't be read in to.

[Sport]

Nobody Wants Carson Palmer

I thought the Onion was supposed to be satirical. This is a fact.

[Sport]

DP

[BlueSky]

Eagles to 'franchise' Vick, Kolb now being shopped

Don't ask why, but I have a feeling this is gonna end badly for the Eagles...

A distinct possibility. As a metro Atlanta resident, I had a front-row seat for the whole Vick fiasco and his body language is beginning to look at lot like it did then, i.e. arrogant and untouchable. I hoped I'm wrong; my hope is he's really changed. But even if he has, as great as he looked on the field at times last season, at other times he looked terribly human. That trait - maddening inconsistency - was another hallmark of the Vick years in Atlanta.

Turning to the "Pro" Bowl - that was as hideous a walk-through as they've ever had in that game - did anybody see Tony Gonzalez' interview with Jay Glazer, and/or hear Jason Witten's comments about Gonzalez? Didn't realize Tony was such an ass.

Going to have to disagree with you there - he's been absolutely the opposite. As opposed to McNabb, who rarely (if ever) did any local radio or TV interviews, and also rarely went out to the schools or talked to people on the streets (as if he was a Michael Jackson -esque mega star who couldn't be spoken to or looked at directly), Vick has been (sort of) humble and more than willing to come on local radio and TV and speak to people, go to schools and interact with the kids, and has been by all accounts a model citizen. Don't get me wrong - as I've said before I don't want this to happen because there is only one strike left and who knows how a contract will change him, but I really disagree with your assessment. He has a natural "smirk" on his face, and he's really soft spoken and at times doesn't come accross like he's comfortable in front of cameras and doesn't go out of his way to articulate, which I think is where the perception of arrogance comes from, but I think that's just how he is, and it shouldn't be read in to.

I hope you're right, I'm basing that on just the last few times I've seen him.

Know what's weird? I watched him for all those years in Atlanta, on the field, in interviews, and so on, and not until this season did I ever see the guy smile. I mean a true, happy, holy-crap smile of joy. It was a close-up of his reaction after a Philly TD.

[Saintsfan]

Eagles to 'franchise' Vick, Kolb now being shopped

Don't ask why, but I have a feeling this is gonna end badly for the Eagles...

A distinct possibility. As a metro Atlanta resident, I had a front-row seat for the whole Vick fiasco and his body language is beginning to look at lot like it did then, i.e. arrogant and untouchable. I hoped I'm wrong; my hope is he's really changed. But even if he has, as great as he looked on the field at times last season, at other times he looked terribly human. That trait - maddening inconsistency - was another hallmark of the Vick years in Atlanta.

Turning to the "Pro" Bowl - that was as hideous a walk-through as they've ever had in that game - did anybody see Tony Gonzalez' interview with Jay Glazer, and/or hear Jason Witten's comments about Gonzalez? Didn't realize Tony was such an ass.

Going to have to disagree with you there - he's been absolutely the opposite. As opposed to McNabb, who rarely (if ever) did any local radio or TV interviews, and also rarely went out to the schools or talked to people on the streets (as if he was a Michael Jackson -esque mega star who couldn't be spoken to or looked at directly), Vick has been (sort of) humble and more than willing to come on local radio and TV and speak to people, go to schools and interact with the kids, and has been by all accounts a model citizen. Don't get me wrong - as I've said before I don't want this to happen because there is only one strike left and who knows how a contract will change him, but I really disagree with your assessment. He has a natural "smirk" on his face, and he's really soft spoken and at times doesn't come accross like he's comfortable in front of cameras and doesn't go out of his way to articulate, which I think is where the perception of arrogance comes from, but I think that's just how he is, and it shouldn't be read in to.

I hope you're right, I'm basing that on just the last few times I've seen him.

Know what's weird? I watched him for all those years in Atlanta, on the field, in interviews, and so on, and not until this season did I ever see the guy smile. I mean a true, happy, holy-crap smile of joy. It was a close-up of his reaction after a Philly TD.

So right there is a difference. My own opinion is that in it's own way redemption is an important motivating factor for Vick, and that at least as long as that is in play Vick will perform to a high standard.

[dfwabel]

Looking at his overall record with Tampa, if the team Tony Dungy built had nothing to do with Gruden's success then why were the Bucs so mediocre for the six years following the 2002 season?

Extremely poor drafting and complacency as far as replacing players. Ultimately, that fell on Rich McKay (the GM), not Gruden.

Rick McKay left the Bucs in December 2003.

[Lights Out]

No offense my friend, but you're just a fan. You have no idea what the Chargers need or don't need in a coach.

I do know that the Chargers have started the season slowly and refused to wake up until November every season under Norv. That's evidence of a lack of motivation and preparation. Norv has created an environment where it's okay to lose and start slow as long as he can say stupid platitudes in the press conference like "we worked hard" or "we got ourselves in a hole." Clearly his laid-back approach is not working, otherwise the Chargers would be concentrating for 16 games at the very least.

Then there's this, name one "great" coach that won a Super Bowl, retired, got fired, whatever, then came back win another one. Bill Parcells, who I think we can agree has a much better track record than Gruden, wasn't able to do it. Neither was "fiery/intense" coach Ditka. Hell, even Vince Lombardi couldn't do it.

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't ever happen.

It's just my opinion and I don't know a thing about what the Chargers need but, if they insist on hiring a retread then I think Jeff Fisher is a much better choice.

Jeff Fisher is just Norv with an ugly moustache.

[infrared41]

Then there's this, name one "great" coach that won a Super Bowl, retired, got fired, whatever, then came back win another one. Bill Parcells, who I think we can agree has a much better track record than Gruden, wasn't able to do it. Neither was "fiery/intense" coach Ditka. Hell, even Vince Lombardi couldn't do it.

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't ever happen.

True but I think it's highly unlikely that Jon Gruden will be the first. Whatever the case, I'm all for the Chargers getting their act together. If it's Jon Gruden who gets the job done then good for him. It's not like I hate the guy or anything. I just think he's way overrated. I also believe the Chargers problems go well beyond the head coach.

[Lights Out]

I wholeheartedly agree that Norv isn't the only problem. AJ sucks too. He ruins entire seasons with his stubbornness in contract negotiations, he hasn't had a good draft in forever (although he's still living off his reputation as a good drafter), and he refuses to get truly involved in free agency when it's clear that the team could use a few more experienced veterans other than Gates and Binn.

Not only that, but after Marty was fired, he interviewed Rex Ryan for the job and reportedly really liked him... before going off and hiring Norv Turner, who already had a history of ruining franchises. Did he even look at Norv's resume before hiring him? Ugh.

[Saintsfan]

Then there's this, name one "great" coach that won a Super Bowl, retired, got fired, whatever, then came back win another one. Bill Parcells, who I think we can agree has a much better track record than Gruden, wasn't able to do it. Neither was "fiery/intense" coach Ditka. Hell, even Vince Lombardi couldn't do it.

Just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't ever happen.

True but I think it's highly unlikely that Jon Gruden will be the first. Whatever the case, I'm all for the Chargers getting their act together. If it's Jon Gruden who gets the job done then good for him. It's not like I hate the guy or anything. I just think he's way overrated. I also believe the Chargers problems go well beyond the head coach.

Its interesting that only 5 men have even coached 2 different franchises in Superbowls. Its also true that other than those 5, of coaches who have one the Superbowl, I believe I am right in saying, only Mike Shanahan,Bill Belichick, Jon Gruden and Tony Dungy have coached another NFL franchise before winning the Superbowl. (Dick Vermeil and Don Shula being the only head coaches to have reached the Superbowl with one franchise, and then won it with a different franchise).

Although I am sure one day a coach will win Superbowls with 2 different franchises, I tend to agree with Infrared in that in general retreads don't work as NFL head coaches, except for those who have been given a full chance at another franchise (Mike Shanahan at Oakland, Bellichick at the Browns types). The best appointments, historically, are almost always good coordinators who've learnt the trade and know what it is they want to do in the position. Truth is that the Cowboys have probably given themselves a better chance of succeeding with Jason Garrett as Head Coach than they would have if they hads thrown money at Cowher or Fisher, for instance.

[dfwabel]

I wholeheartedly agree that Norv isn't the only problem. AJ sucks too. He ruins entire seasons with his stubbornness in contract negotiations, he hasn't had a good draft in forever (although he's still living off his reputation as a good drafter), and he refuses to get truly involved in free agency when it's clear that the team could use a few more experienced veterans other than Gates and Binn.

Not only that, but after Marty was fired, he interviewed Rex Ryan for the job and reportedly really liked him... before going off and hiring Norv Turner, who already had a history of ruining franchises. Did he even look at Norv's resume before hiring him? Ugh.

Which teams have signed "big contract free agents" in the last ten seasons which have impacted a team so much that they either reach or win the Super Bowl? With the salary cap, we have seen that a team just cannot buy a title.

I could only think of a few: Drew Brees, T.O., possibly Bertrand Berry?

[BigEd76]

Also remember the Eagles signed Kearse the same year they got TO

[BBTV]

Technically they traded for TO.