NHL 2011-2012: Possible Uniform Changes

[Lee.]

I've been pondering this, and really, a darker blue and an incredibly bright, almost highlighter yellow would be the nigh-perfect color combination for this team. The black and whatever blues they've been using to date have never had proper contrast, so by just eliminating the black and silver, darkening the blue, and bringing in a color that might actually simulate lightning, they could be on to something.

Also, had the main logo been more of a perfect circle ( \m/ ) rather than the angled style they went with, I think some of the criticism might be tempered a bit. And as I said earlier, that wordmark included on the white jersey doesn't help matters.

[tubby34]

Curious, anyone stop to think they wanted to catch some of the Rays new merchandising sales by selling a vintage and basic jersey?

Right now the Magic, Lightning, and Rays all seem to me like a set of teams in one city, with the Red/Orange Bucs the outcast.

Kind of like the

Mets/Knicks/Islanders

Yanks/Giants/Rangers

LA Clippers/Dodgers

Capitals/Nationals/Soon to be Wizards

As a Floridian who wished the Panthers will go back to red, the lightning jersey is one I'd buy before my own favorite team.

I like it. Even if it is a bastard child of the Wings and Leafs and the illegitimate son of the Rays current idenity.

[troy_3223]

I think the logo is definitely an upgrade. The lightning have always needed a simpler logo. It's generic now, but once it's been in the league a while, and the lightning throw together some good seasons, the logo will seem more iconic than generic.

As for the uniforms themselves - definitely too bland. The concepts with the previous color scheme look great, and even a uniform set in the new color scheme with white armpit victory stripes and white bolt pant shells would be a huge improvement over this. (I tried to whip up a concept in good old MS Paint, but I'll freely admit that even the stuff I work hard on ends up looking a bit like ass - maybe one of you young whippersnappers can do it up right)

I'm hoping the backlash will result in at least that amount of compromise with the fanbase, given that this is a midseason release. I just hope the trend starts to die out soon. The Original Six is the Original Six. There's a reason the expansion teams in 67 used untraditional bold colors (green, purple, orange, light blue, navy) and untraditional striping patterns.

On the other hand, at least we're not seeing the sublimated jerseys or whatever they were called from the olympics yet.

[Lights Out]

LA Clippers/Dodgers

To be honest, the Clippers are closer to the Angels, since red is the Clips' main color.

[JQK]

...but they stole a colour scheme from a team that had a monopoly on it for eighty-six years...

According to Colorwerx, the blue that the Lightning are using is the same same blue they've used for a while. (Which also happens to be the current shade of Leafs blue)

I wouldn't say a team has a monopoly on that color when another team has been using it for years now.

You claim others are blinded by Leafs hate... i think you're blinded by Leafs fanaticism.

[CubsFanBudMan]

EDIT: it doesn't apply to OCD in this case, since he did break down the uni earlier in the thread -- my apologiess for missing it initially -- but it does seem to be becoming more common to criticize the critics instead of the uniform itself, so I'll leave the rest of this here anyway:

I said this in the other thread, but I'll ask it again here:

Please defend this rather than ripping those of us that don't like it. I'm open minded. Three lightning logos on one jersey (that don't match), the addition of a played-out circle/script logo, using the color scheme of a historic team (and drawing obvious inspiration from another). It's not like the Lightning have no history. They did win a Stanley Cup. Again, please enlighten me. I'm not sure this is the set to draw the line in the sand for. (For the record, I mourned the loss of green but liked the simplification of their baseball neighbors a few years back.)

I'm not anti-simple or anti-everything, and by itself, the design isn't bad. But in the NHL, in Tampa Bay, I think this doesn't work for the reasons stated above. I also said in the other thread an easy way to go simple and make their own mark while staying true to their own history was to make this design in black and white. (Add back the victory stripes and bolt pants and remove the circles on the shoulder and it'd be even better, in my opinion.) That is still what we do here, right? Share opinions?

[JQK]

I already gave my critiques on the uniforms, and explained my reasons for liking it.

[CubsFanBudMan]

I already gave my critiques on the uniforms, and explained my reasons for liking it.

EDIT: It wasn't directed at you JQK, but I need to remove who it was specifically directed at because he had, in fact, stated his opinion earlier in the thread before ripping the critics. My apologies.

[JQK]

I already gave my critiques on the uniforms, and explained my reasons for liking it.

EDIT: It wasn't directed at you JQK, but I need to remove who it was specifically directed at because he had, in fact, stated his opinion earlier in the thread before ripping the critics. My apologies.

My apologies to you. I was not meaning for that to come across as a jab towards you, just as me clarifying my stance and separating myself from those you were pointing out...

[Morgan33]

At least they didn't run with vintage white.

This is true. Gotta be happy for the little things I suppose.

Wow I didn't even think about that. That would have been an even bigger disaster

[CubsFanBudMan]

I have now re-read all of the opinions in both threads, and while I have not been swayed and still think it's a tough change to defend as a whole, I respect anyone's right to do so.

[tvko]

How many times does he have to say that these designs don't exist in vacuums? It doesn't matter that the Colts have the same colors as the Maple Leafs, because the Colts don't play the Maple Leafs four times a year. Seeing as this isn't baseball where you can have everyone wearing navy and red because they've been doing so for well over a hundred years, it's imperative to come up with an identity that can't be confused for anybody else's.

Tradition shouldn't be an issue. Yzerman doesn't have to bow down to older hockey clubs.

Also, there's a huge lightning bolt in the middle of the jersey. I wouldn't confuse it with another identity (Toronto, Pittsburgh's alt, Florida's alt, Vancouver, Columbus, Edmonton, Nashville, St. Louis) and neither would any educated hockey fan. The issue is the design, and I think it looks quite nice by itself AND when you look at it alongside the rest of the NHL.

[IceCap]

...but they stole a colour scheme from a team that had a monopoly on it for eighty-six years...

According to Colorwerx, the blue that the Lightning are using is the same same blue they've used for a while. (Which also happens to be the current shade of Leafs blue)

I wouldn't say a team has a monopoly on that color when another team has been using it for years now.

The Lightning have always used that shade of blue in conjunction with black and silver. The Leafs have used that blue with nothing but white for close to a century, and during that time were the only team to wear that shade of blue with no other colour but white. For eighty six years blue and white was associated with the Leafs, like midnight navy pinstripes on white were for the Yankees.

Now Tampa Bay, a team that has always been a primarily black team that used blue as a secondary colour, has decided to "adopt" the blue and white colour scheme after eighty six years of it being the Leafs' domain.

I propose a hypothetical. The Tampa Bay Rays release a new home uniform. White, with midnight blue pinstripes, and a midnight blue TB monogram on the left chest.

You claim others are blinded by Leafs hate... i think you're blinded by Leafs fanaticism.

No, I'm just aware that uniforms don't exist in a vacuum.

You have indeed listed why you like these new uniforms. And for the sake of clarity of the conversation, lets go over them again.

You feel these are superior because they've basically stripped down all the clutter. A simplified and nice colour scheme, a better striping pattern, and a simplified, more iconic logo.

Ok. Here's the thing. I actually agree with you for the most part. Except the logo. I think an equal width circle that connects to the bolt on both ends would look better then the lopsided oval. Other then that though? Yes, looking at only the Tampa Bay Lightning the new look is a marked improvement.

The problem? As I've said before these uniforms do not exist in a vacuum. A design cannot really be evaluated simply on its own. The rest of the league has to be taken into account because the new design exists as part of the league, not in a vacuum. As part of the NHL family of uniform design all of its positives are suddenly trivialized by the fact that stole one storied team's striping pattern and an other storied team's colour scheme. As part of a 30 part whole it becomes apparent how unoriginal this look really is.

See Kinger? I'm capable of having a disagreement with you without throwing out stock insults in an attempt to be clever

Thing is, you're a cool guy. So lighten up.

[epper]

Wait, so how many years have the Leafs been using blue-and-white again?

[hecticbro]

People overreacting though really confuses me. It's not like they unveiled the Fisherman or Buffaslug.

No, but they stole a colour scheme from a team that had a monopoly on it for eighty-six years and a striping pattern from one of, if not the, most famous hockey teams in the world.

How many times are you going to repeat that line about 86 years? We get it, you're a Laffs fan. I can think of something the Lightning have done in the past 43 years that your boys in Toronto haven't.

And like someone else mentioned, Quebec basically used blue and white for their time in the league. There was hardly any red in it. Come to think of it, the Jets looked pretty similar to Toronto for a while too. Should I be all pissed off about Phoenix or Carolina trying to emulate Detroit's look? Maybe I would be, but I'm too busy enjoying a watchable, competitive team!

You're entire point is completely shot to hell by the fact that your blinded to the obvious by your Leafs hatred. Your entire point is lost in the tirade of Leafs bashing.

Winnipeg's look included red.

Quebec's look included a much lighter shade of blue and a predominantly red logo.

Phoenix's look uses a darker red then Detroit does, and their logo utilizes the colours sand and black.

Carolina uses black and silver in addition to red and white.

Tampa Bay, on the other hand, flat out took a colour scheme that's been the Leafs' monopoly for 86 years. You may not like me repeating the 86 years thing, but guess what sparky? That's the reality of the situation. A team with a monopoly on a colour scheme for close to a century has had their look stolen by a 90s expansion team that's thrown out their own history so they can pretend to be an Original 6 franchise.

When you're willing to comment on all of this without your (irrelevant) Leafs hate/jokes I'll discuss this with you.

Why would I hate the Leafs? They've been irrelevant for nearly half a century!

The point remains that it's really silly to complain about a franchise adopting a similar look when yours is so non-complex in the first place. Tampa Bay clearly wanted to jump on the fauxback bandwagon and strip back their identity to its simplest essence. In doing so, they were bound to either end up with a black and white uniform or a blue and white uniform. There's only so much you can do with one color. If, say, the Senators or the Flames did the same thing, they'd probably end up looking very Wings-like. Who cares?

Personally, I don't think the Lightning set out to look anything like Toronto. It's just an inevitable coincidence. After all, if anything, teams tend to emulate the looks of successful organizations or those that they grew up with or had close ties to. But if it makes you feel important, all you Toronto fans can tell yourselves that the world actually does revolve around you and that everyone in the league wants to be a Maple Leaf.

[JQK]

You claim others are blinded by Leafs hate... i think you're blinded by Leafs fanaticism.

Ok. Here's the thing. I actually agree with you for the most part. Except the logo. I think an equal width circle that connects to the bolt on both ends would look better then the lopsided oval. Other then that though? Yes, looking at only the Tampa Bay Lightning the new look is a marked improvement.

The problem? As I've said before these uniforms do not exist in a vacuum. A design cannot really be evaluated simply on its own. The rest of the league has to be taken into account because the new design exists as part of the league, not in a vacuum. As part of the NHL family of uniform design all of its positives are suddenly trivialized by the fact that stole one storied team's striping pattern and an other storied team's colour scheme. As part of a 30 part whole it becomes apparent how unoriginal this look really is.

To me, a solid arm stripe and solid waist stripe is not stealing Detroit's iconic jersey style. If the white jersey had blue sleeves in the same style as Detroit's i could understand. Saying that it's a direct rip of the Wings uniform is like saying the logo is a rip of The Flash. It may remind you of it, but it's not a carbon copy.

As for the color scheme, why did you not complain about Tampa stealing Toronto's blue before this reveal? It is the same blue they have been using for a while. All they've done is remove the black and silver. They have the right to use a color that has historically been a part of their scheme.

I will not argue that they are trying to make a much more simple, iconic uniform in the vein of a Detroit and Toronto, and that there is heavy inspiration from both teams' uniforms throughout their history. However, I see Tampa's look as a nice stand-alone look that will become iconic and provide Tampa with a brand that will stand for generations, not as a carbon copy of other NHL clubs. (I'm looking at you, Florida Panthers 3rd Uniform)

[GFB]

You claim others are blinded by Leafs hate... i think you're blinded by Leafs fanaticism.

Ok. Here's the thing. I actually agree with you for the most part. Except the logo. I think an equal width circle that connects to the bolt on both ends would look better then the lopsided oval. Other then that though? Yes, looking at only the Tampa Bay Lightning the new look is a marked improvement.

The problem? As I've said before these uniforms do not exist in a vacuum. A design cannot really be evaluated simply on its own. The rest of the league has to be taken into account because the new design exists as part of the league, not in a vacuum. As part of the NHL family of uniform design all of its positives are suddenly trivialized by the fact that stole one storied team's striping pattern and an other storied team's colour scheme. As part of a 30 part whole it becomes apparent how unoriginal this look really is.

To me, a solid arm stripe and solid waist stripe is not stealing Detroit's iconic jersey style. If the white jersey had blue sleeves in the same style as Detroit's i could understand. Saying that it's a direct rip of the Wings uniform is like saying the logo is a rip of The Flash. It may remind you of it, but it's not a carbon copy.

As for the color scheme, why did you not complain about Tampa stealing Toronto's blue before this reveal? It is the same blue they have been using for a while. All they've done is remove the black and silver. They have the right to use a color that has historically been a part of their scheme.

I will not argue that they are trying to make a much more simple, iconic uniform in the vein of a Detroit and Toronto, and that there is heavy inspiration from both teams' uniforms throughout their history. However, I see Tampa's look as a nice stand-alone look that will become iconic and provide Tampa with a brand that will stand for generations, not as a carbon copy of other NHL clubs. (I'm looking at you, Florida Panthers 3rd Uniform)

Truth.

[knnhrvy16]

Eh, the only real similarity I see between the Leafs and Lightning is the color. Other than that, they really aren't that similar. If the two were to play against each other, I could easily tell the two apart. One has a maple leaf on the front, the other has a lightning bolt. One has two stripes on the sleeves and the bottom of the jersey with triple striped socks, the other has one stripe on the sleeves and bottom of the jersey. It's like the whole Wisconsin-Nebraska argument - there really are more differences than people realize, yet a worthless argument is still brought about how they are "carbon copies".

Yeah, maybe a black and white combo would have been a better route (I do think, after some thought, that route would look better), but I don't think this is as catastrophic as some people are putting on. I'm not saying that no one is entitled to an opinion, but it's just my own opinion that this is getting blown up alot farther than it has to be.

[hecticbro]

I've been pondering this, and really, a darker blue and an incredibly bright, almost highlighter yellow would be the nigh-perfect color combination for this team....

Oh, that wouldn't do. Then we'd have to hear it from all the St. Louis Blose fans!

[-kj]

General mod note:

Please drop the team partisanship that's been popping up in this thread. We're here to discuss the logos/jerseys, not your team or how you hate other teams.