NHL 2011-2012: Possible Uniform Changes

[dgnmrwrw]

As Ice_Cap and others have tried to point out, the backlash so many of us have against these is not that they're bad designs per se (although that argument could be made effectively). The problem is that the Lightning eliminated two decades of tradition, which is much more than it might sound like when one considers the established identity they had. And to make matters worse, they abandoned this concrete, unique style for the sake of a look that is clearly a desperate attempt by Yzerman/management/ownership to style this team as if they were an Original Six club, instead of embracing what they actually are. The similarities between this and the Leafs/Wings are so annoying because, as Ice_Cap said, these things don't exist in a vacuum. It's not that they're identical. It's that they're pointlessly similar.

Just as people here often despise black-for-black's sake, this is unappealing to me because it's fake-simple-and-classic-for-fake-simple-and-classic's sake. It's an utterly arbitrary decision, like so many of the Edge paint-by-numbers templates, though for different reasons.

As I tried to point out earlier, the Bolts could have simplified things, put more emphasis on blue, and even gone with a more "classic" look without turning their backs on what was such a well-established look. Just because something has fewer colors and stripes doesn't make it better by default or more appropriate for the team.

[Sport]

In a vacuum, I like them. On its own, I rather like them. I like the logo sans wordmark as I don't think a team ever needs their logo to spell out their team name with letters. You gotta let the logo do the talking on its own. That's what they've done here and I really really like the logo though it would look even better complimented by black and gray. I also kinda like the uniforms on their own as well, but that's where my compliments end.

My issues:

1. As already mentioned, there's an original six team that pretty much owns blue and white. They play in the same conference and they look pretty similar. Dumb casual fans will confuse the two when they turn on a Lightning highlight. You don't wear New York Yankees ripoffs and you don't ripoff the Toronto Maple Leafs. Because of this, I don't see these uniforms lasting more than 5, maybe 6 years. Then they're going to become the team that is constantly changing their uniforms and that's just not smart from a branding sense.

2. They're not a historic NHL franchise so they shouldn't pretend like they are. They're not the Kenora Thistles here. It's the "Lightning". That's about as "rad" as it gets. You shouldn't pretend like you're something you're not. Be who you are. Embrace that you're a beach team born in the early 90's.

3. They just rebranded three years ago and IMO I think they fixed a lot of the problems of their original set. The Ottawa-Pittsburgh template isn't the best, but at least they're recognizable.

4. They're getting farther away from what they should be doing, IMO. The name "Lightning" lends itself to a lot of really great design options. They could (and probably should) be the San Diego Chargers of hockey, but instead they're copying the Maple Leafs.

5. They've only been around since 92, but they've sort of carved out their niche as "the black and blue team" and they've built a nice little identity for themselves. There's already a blue and white team. Furthermore, they won a GD stanley cup in black and blue. Why would you try to distance yourself from that? It wasn't even that long ago, and the team is heading in that positive direction again.

6. WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THE LIGHTNING BOLT ON THE PANTS!!!!!!!! WHY?

[Sport]

On the color issue that Kinger is trying to argue: So the blue their using is their blue, but that doesn't mean it's their color scheme. Black, silver, and blue is their color scheme. Blue and white is Toronto's.

It'd be like if the Milwaukee Bucks started wearing exclusively green and white and then said, "what? it's our green too. Just cause the Celtics are green and white doesn't mean we can't use our green with just white" Uh, yes, it does. There's an infinite number of design choices. It's perfectly reasonable to expect that a league of 30 teams would have 30 individually unique uniforms and color schemes. These are neither unique in design nor color scheme.

Let's see how people feel if the Devils dropped black and went with just red and white. Even if the jersey design isn't similar to Detroit, that still wouldn't sit well at all.

But don't confuse what I'm saying like you've been confusing what ice Cap's been saying. I like the uniforms and I like the new logos. I don't like that they're stepping on the toes of tradition while throwing away their own tradition and their own identity.

Once more, uniforms aren't worn in a vacuum and there are far more factors to consider when evaluating uniform design than simply the aesthetics and execution alone.

And I'm not a Leafs fan, I'm not blinded by blue colored glasses, though I really don't think Ice Cap is either.

[IceCap]

You claim others are blinded by Leafs hate... i think you're blinded by Leafs fanaticism.

Ok. Here's the thing. I actually agree with you for the most part. Except the logo. I think an equal width circle that connects to the bolt on both ends would look better then the lopsided oval. Other then that though? Yes, looking at only the Tampa Bay Lightning the new look is a marked improvement.

The problem? As I've said before these uniforms do not exist in a vacuum. A design cannot really be evaluated simply on its own. The rest of the league has to be taken into account because the new design exists as part of the league, not in a vacuum. As part of the NHL family of uniform design all of its positives are suddenly trivialized by the fact that stole one storied team's striping pattern and an other storied team's colour scheme. As part of a 30 part whole it becomes apparent how unoriginal this look really is.

To me, a solid arm stripe and solid waist stripe is not stealing Detroit's iconic jersey style. If the white jersey had blue sleeves in the same style as Detroit's i could understand. Saying that it's a direct rip of the Wings uniform is like saying the logo is a rip of The Flash. It may remind you of it, but it's not a carbon copy.

As for the color scheme, why did you not complain about Tampa stealing Toronto's blue before this reveal? It is the same blue they have been using for a while. All they've done is remove the black and silver. They have the right to use a color that has historically been a part of their scheme.

I will not argue that they are trying to make a much more simple, iconic uniform in the vein of a Detroit and Toronto, and that there is heavy inspiration from both teams' uniforms throughout their history. However, I see Tampa's look as a nice stand-alone look that will become iconic and provide Tampa with a brand that will stand for generations, not as a carbon copy of other NHL clubs. (I'm looking at you, Florida Panthers 3rd Uniform)

It was a matter of wanting to see how it turned out. Look at the NFL. The Cowboys' throwbacks and the Colts both use a basic blue and white colour scheme. Yet how the colours are used and even the shade of the blues are different enough. So much so that the Cowboys could switch to their throwbacks full time and I doubt anyone would complain about a similarity to the Colts' uniforms.

When I first heard the news that the Lightning were simply going with blue and white I thought "they'll either look like the Leafs or they'll manage to do use the two colours in a different enough way." That's why I didn't complain earlier, because I felt the team deserved a chance. Maybe they managed to use blue and white in a way that kept similarities to the Leafs to a minimum. I didn't feel it right to comment or accuse them of identity theft until I saw the uniforms.

As for the uniforms, when I first saw them I actually felt like they did a decent enough job distancing themselves from the Leafs (go back and find the first post I made after seeing them). My original thought was actually "well they're using the Leafs' colours, but they stole Detroit's striping, so I guess it's not that blatant a rip-off attempt."

The more I thought about it, though, the more I realized that striping differences aside it still is a Maple Leafs-ish look. Blue and white colour scheme? Yep. Simple striping pattern? Yep. Simple colour reversed logo? Yep. Lace-up? Yep. Blue collars on the white sweater and white collars on the blue sweater? Yep. Then I thought "I'm no Red Wings fan, but it's really not cool to so blatantly take the template of the most popular team in the world and claim it as your own."

Yes, the differences are in the details, especially here. Yes, the single, bold stripes the Bolts use do help differentiate them from the Leafs. That's not saying much, however, when that bold striping pattern has been taken from another storied team.

The difference in opinion between use seems to be "did the Lightning utilize blue and white in a way that avoids looking like the Maple Leafs?"

You say yes, I say no. I'm quite willing to continue this discussion, but I think both you and I are capable of that without petty stock insults.

Also, McCarthy and dgnmrwrw covered my other concerns.

[BroadwayBlueshirt]

It's so close to being nice. You can be simple without being boring, and creative without being tacky. I feel like all they would've needed to add are silver accents, a lightning bolt instead of a stripe on the pants, and the victory stripes. It would still be clean. It would still work toward establishing the unadorned lightning bolt crest as an iconic mark. But it would keep some personality, some history, and some tradition that had been an established part of the franchise for almost 20 years now.

[Lee.]

You know, had they even used a lightning bolt hem stripe instead of just a band, it would have perked this up nicely.

[-kj]

So that this thread doesn't turn into a big concept thread, I started a topic over in the Concepts area.

[OMMF]

So let's see if I have all the arguments right:

The team has no history, so why try to look classic?

The team just abandoned their 20-year history.

The jerseys look like the Maple Leafs.

The colours look like the Maple Leafs.

The jerseys look like the Red Wings in Maple Leafs colours.

The jerseys have so many differences from both Toronto and Detroit that they are unique.

Is that it?

[Sodboy13]

So let's see if I have all the arguments right:

The team has no history, so why try to look classic?

The team just abandoned their 20-year history.

The jerseys look like the Maple Leafs.

The colours look like the Maple Leafs.

The jerseys look like the Red Wings in Maple Leafs colours.

The jerseys have so many differences from both Toronto and Detroit that they are unique.

Is that it?

Different people think different things, and opinions about sports uniforms are subjective. So, yes.

[Lights Out]

The team has no history, so why try to look classic?

The team just abandoned their 20-year history.

Bingo. I couldn't give a damn about similarities to Toronto or Detroit because I'm not a hockey fan, but I am a sports design fan, and for those two reasons, these stink.

[BigShoop]

OK, so during 1st intermission tonight, Mr CEO explains the new look.....he says the bolt can be iconic, and then mentions 2 teams as examples: the Leafs and the Red Wings.

[expletive filled tirade]

24 hours later. Still hate them.

[rams80]

OK, so during 1st intermission tonight, Mr CEO explains the new look.....he says the bolt can be iconic, and then mentions 2 teams as examples: the Leafs and the Red Wings.

[expletive filled tirade]

24 hours later. Still hate them.

Waaaay to dissuade us from the "you're ripping off the Wings and the Leafs" notion.

For what it's worth, I really don't care much for the faux retro design trend that's been going around in the NHL the last couple of years. Teams should stick with the identities they have more or less previously carved out for themselves rather than playing pretend Original 6.

EDIT-Also, the next "let's make a retro-ish alternate logo by taking our existing logo and sticking it in a circle with the team's name surrounding it" trend needs to stop. Yesterday.

[charger77]

Do you think they expected this kind of backlash and went ahead with it anyways or are they completely surprised that people are calling the new uniforms a rip off?

[Morgan33]

Anyone think the NHL will allow the Lightning to use their new duds in the playoffs this year? Normally I'd say no but they've been pretty accommodating as of late (Vancouver wearing their vintage blue and green in comes to mind). If they can't my guess is they'll wear the "Bolts" third at home.

[oddball]

I actually don't have a problem with the Lightning's new uniforms. I'm not a real fan of their current uniforms, and I loved the prior look with the black shoulders on white and the white shoulders on black. These are a nice, simplistic take on a hockey jersey. I will say, and I tend to be one of the ones that hates adding black just to add black, but I think black accents would really make this pop. Overall I give this a "B" grade. My biggest fear is that these will end up like Phoenix, whom I loved at first, but now I'm tired of and their black monstrosities don't help either. Tampa adding black wouldn't just be adding black as it was part of the team's color scheme for 20 years.

[twi]

The new logo already started appearing on commercials and stuff during the game tonight. I didn't catch any in-arena ads with the new logo but I did see a few fasn with hats and t-shirts already. I'm assuming they have some merchandise already rolling out.

[IceCap]

Anyone think the NHL will allow the Lightning to use their new duds in the playoffs this year? Normally I'd say no but they've been pretty accommodating as of late (Vancouver wearing their vintage blue and green in comes to mind). If they can't my guess is they'll wear the "Bolts" third at home.

I don't think the league can stop them from wearing them if the team's dead set on it. They'll probably be fined if the league has a problem with it, but I don't think they can physically stop them from wearing the new set.

[Sport]

I actually don't have a problem with the Lightning's new uniforms. I'm not a real fan of their current uniforms, and I loved the prior look with the black shoulders on white and the white shoulders on black. These are a nice, simplistic take on a hockey jersey. I will say, and I tend to be one of the ones that hates adding black just to add black, but I think black accents would really make this pop. Overall I give this a "B" grade. My biggest fear is that these will end up like Phoenix, whom I loved at first, but now I'm tired of and their black monstrosities don't help either. Tampa adding black wouldn't just be adding black as it was part of the team's color scheme for 20 years.

It's not BFBS if you've always used black. I'd be okay with the monochrome blue if it had either black or silver accents (or both) and they used some lightning bolt imagery on the pants or in place of the stripes on the jersey.

In my opinion, their best look would be a blue jersey with blue socks with black pants and black helmets.

[DustDevil61]

I'll compare these new Lightning duds with the Utah Jazz' "Boozer-era" (2004-2010) dual-blue look in that it's not bad, but it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm starting to miss the black/blue/silver/white look more and more. If you've seen lightning at night (picture or otherwise), you'll notice the major colors involved are black (from the darkness, of course), blue (around the bolt), silver/gray (from the lit clouds), and white (the bolt itself):

Now the 2003-2007 uniforms themselves:

Of course, there are other colors as well--purplish-gray, yellow to red in the bolt, but most lightning strikes at night tend to have black/blue/silver or gray/white involved. Up until this change, the Lightning have been one of the most colorly (I guess) accurate teams in the North American Big 4, and it's a shame that they're moving away from that, in addition to their history.

[hecticbro]

OK, so during 1st intermission tonight, Mr CEO explains the new look.....he says the bolt can be iconic, and then mentions 2 teams as examples: the Leafs and the Red Wings.

[expletive filled tirade]

24 hours later. Still hate them.

Waaaay to dissuade us from the "you're ripping off the Wings and the Leafs" notion....

When you think about it, that makes sense, since there are so many Wings and TO fans down in that area. I've been to a couple games in Tampa Bay (pretty early on, when the team was quite new), and the arena was filled with people from Michigan and Southern Ontario who migrated south.