2011 Pro Football Hall of Fame Finalists

[infrared41]

Still unbelievable that Jim Plunkett is not in the HOF!

You're joking right? Or is this another ESPN inspired case of "he won two Super Bowls so he's an all-time great?" Plunkett wasn't even the starter at the beginning of the season in either of the years the Raiders won those Super Bowls.

[The_Admiral]

Without the media presentation that turned football into a really cool television program, America's favorite sport is still baseball, the way it ought to be. If the guy who ran NFL Films isn't in, then nobody's in.

[DDR]

This is a good class of finalists. Here's my take.

Ed Sabol. Agree with admiral. NFL Films has done as much to put the NFL on the map as anyone.

Deion Sanders. A Hall-of-Famer as a cornerback in my mind. His prowess in the return game just makes it a no-brainer.

Marshall Faulk. As versatile a back as maybe there ever was. One of the most electric RBs I had the pleasure of watching.

And then it gets tough. I'd probably put in Curtis Martin, Tim Brown and Cris Carter, but if only two can go, it's Carter and Martin.

[infrared41]

This will probably result in me getting a lot of flack but...I don't think Tim Brown was a HOF receiver. I think Carter is borderline at best. Fire away!

[Joshawaggie]

This will probably result in me getting a lot of flack but...I don't think Tim Brown was a HOF receiver. I think Carter is borderline at best. Fire away!

What more would you have wanted Carter to do, besides winning a Super Bowl? He finished second in WR receptions and touchdowns to Jerry Rice.

[dfwabel]

This will probably result in me getting a lot of flack but...I don't think Tim Brown was a HOF receiver. I think Carter is borderline at best. Fire away!

I have read or heard on a few occasions on how the debate goes. Basically, a committee member "represents" the nominee and stated the nominee's case. For both Carter and Brown, the writer will state that Carter was elected first team "All Decade" for the 1990's or that Tim Brown was second team "All Decade", meanwhile Andre Reed did not make either list. Rice was the other first teamer with Irvin as the other second teamer.

In addition to stats and records they may have, they won't talk about Pro Bowls made, but rather if they were voted on All-Pro teams since that is harder to do and most in that room vote for All-Pro. Brown also has the distinction to also be a kick returner and be only guy with 10 consecutive 75 catch seasons. I think he should eventually be in, but not this year.

Dave Goldberg (formerly with the AP, now with Fanhouse), one of the 44 voters, was quoted saying ?this may be the best class ? or close to it ? that I?ve seen in my nearly two decades of voting, and there are people on the final list that I will be very unhappy about leaving to wait another year.?

For 2012, both Cowher and Parcells become eligible for the first time too

[oddball]

Les Richter, Ted Sabol, and Deion Sanders. Past those three, none of them stand out as Hall of fame players. If you don't know what Les Richter did as an athlete look it up, it's just simply amazing. Then throw on top of it what he did after he left the football scene and in racing, this guy was Hall of Famers that crossed into multiple areas!

[infrared41]

This will probably result in me getting a lot of flack but...I don't think Tim Brown was a HOF receiver. I think Carter is borderline at best. Fire away!

What more would you have wanted Carter to do, besides winning a Super Bowl? He finished second in WR receptions and touchdowns to Jerry Rice.

Not winning a Super Bowl has no bearing on whether or not I think someone is "HOF worthy." Players don't win Super Bowls, teams do.

That said, let me explain my reasoning... I just don't recall Carter or Brown being "dominant players" in their era. Yes, they piled up catches and yards but I never saw them as "game breakers." Maybe I'm remembering him as better than he really was, but at the time it seemed to me that Andre Reed was just at a level that Brown and Carter weren't. I'll be the first to admit that my standards for HOF induction are probably too high but I just think there needs to be a "wow factor" with a HOF player. In my completely subjective opinion, Carter and Brown didn't have the same "wow factor" that Andre Reed did. So in my mind, if Reed isn't in then Carter and Brown shouldn't be in either.

EDIT: Nah, I changed my mind again. Reed was just better.

[mania]

You and Andre Reed's immediate family are the only people who feel that way.

[Joshawaggie]

This will probably result in me getting a lot of flack but...I don't think Tim Brown was a HOF receiver. I think Carter is borderline at best. Fire away!

What more would you have wanted Carter to do, besides winning a Super Bowl? He finished second in WR receptions and touchdowns to Jerry Rice.

Not winning a Super Bowl has no bearing on whether or not I think someone is "HOF worthy." Players don't win Super Bowls, teams do.

That said, let me explain my reasoning... I just don't recall Carter or Brown being "dominant players" in their era. Yes, they piled up catches and yards but I never saw them as "game breakers." Maybe I'm remembering him as better than he really was, but at the time it seemed to me that Andre Reed was just at a level that Brown and Carter weren't. I'll be the first to admit that my standards for HOF induction are probably too high but I just think there needs to be a "wow factor" with a HOF player. In my completely subjective opinion, Carter and Brown didn't have the same "wow factor" that Andre Reed did. So in my mind, if Reed isn't in then Carter and Brown shouldn't be in either.

EDIT: Nah, I changed my mind again. Reed was just better.

It's probably because I watched Carter play every week, but if you don't think he was a "game breaker", then you must not have watched him play too much. When it was in the red zone area, the game play was centered around Carter. He made catches back then that nobody made, which seem the norm now. He wasn't flashy, and he wasn't the fastest, but he was the go-to guy for first downs and touch downs. Scoring 130 touchdowns is a little more than "piling up catches and yards".

I assume you are just trying to debate for the sake of debate though

[Magnus]

Damon Allen?

[tj4eck]

Curtis Martin - look up the word "underappreciated" and this guy's picture is probably next to it. It may also appear next to the words "quiet", "underrated", and "consistent". He was never a loud, brash, look-at-me type of guy; he just buckled and laced it up, went out there, and performed. And if his HoF really needs to be questioned, one look at the all-time NFL rushing yards leaderboard should quell that. That list goes something like this: E. Smith, W. Payton, B. Sanders...C. Martin.

This!

[tBBP]

Damon Allen?

Well hell...I guess if Warren Moon got in, then this guy should probably have a shot, too.

[infrared41]

That said, let me explain my reasoning... I just don't recall Carter or Brown being "dominant players" in their era. Yes, they piled up catches and yards but I never saw them as "game breakers." Maybe I'm remembering him as better than he really was, but at the time it seemed to me that Andre Reed was just at a level that Brown and Carter weren't. I'll be the first to admit that my standards for HOF induction are probably too high but I just think there needs to be a "wow factor" with a HOF player. In my completely subjective opinion, Carter and Brown didn't have the same "wow factor" that Andre Reed did. So in my mind, if Reed isn't in then Carter and Brown shouldn't be in either.

EDIT: Nah, I changed my mind again. Reed was just better.

It's probably because I watched Carter play every week, but if you don't think he was a "game breaker", then you must not have watched him play too much. When it was in the red zone area, the game play was centered around Carter. He made catches back then that nobody made, which seem the norm now. He wasn't flashy, and he wasn't the fastest, but he was the go-to guy for first downs and touch downs. Scoring 130 touchdowns is a little more than "piling up catches and yards".

I assume you are just trying to debate for the sake of debate though

Nah, not really. I honestly do believe Reed was better than Carter. To be honest, you guys are actually starting to sway my opinion on Cris Carter. In Tim Brown's case, I just don't think he was a HOF receiver. He played a long time and he has big numbers but I never saw him as one of the top receivers of his era.

[mania]

Brown played ONE more season than Reed did, and his final season, in a limited role, was better than Reed's, in a limited role.

Brown also had 9 consecutive seasons where he topped 1000 yards, a mark that Reed topped 4 times in his career, and never consecutively, and this was while catching passes from a Hall of Fame QB in a pass-centric offense, while Brown caught from Jeff :censored:ing Hostetler and Rich Gannon.

Your only argument seems to be your eyes, but eyes lie, eyes are biased.

But I think Carter and Brown are both deserving. Reed? A great receiver, but he didn't stand out among his own team or his peers at the position. It won't be an injustice if Reed is inducted, but I would put him squarely behind the other two.

PFR blog

[Drakonius26]

Honestly, Andre Reed is going to be the next Art Monk. He'll probably go in about 8-10 years from now. Personally, I voted for Ed Sabol, Sanders, Martin, Carter, and Faulk.

Ed Sabol is clearly a slam-dunk, and NFL Films is one of the Top Five reasons why professional football is so popular in the United States. NFL Films, and the NBA on NBC, had the uncanny ability to make a blowout seem dramatic and majestic. They could probably play their music to paint drying and make it seem incredible.

Deion Sanders I'm sort of torn on, because his stops in Washington and Baltimore were really sub-par, specifically his "comeback" with the Ravens. But his career with the Falcons, 49ers, and Cowboys was so good, it would be a crime to not vote him in.

Curtis Martin and Cris Carter are fairly similar for their positions. Statistically dominant, never a champion, and very under-appreciated by some of the media and football fans. They never played on the greatest teams, and only had a couple of decent playoffs runs, but through a lot of upheaval, they remained consistent and at the top of their games for a long time. Plus, like Deion, they passed the "eye-test."

As for Marshall Faulk, I personally think of him as Roger Craig version 2.0, who got more credit than Craig ever did, and it my mind, both men are Hall-of-Famers. So once again, it was a slam-dunk choice for me to make.

[infrared41]

Brown played ONE more season than Reed did, and his final season, in a limited role, was better than Reed's, in a limited role.

Brown also had 9 consecutive seasons where he topped 1000 yards, a mark that Reed topped 4 times in his career, and never consecutively, and this was while catching passes from a Hall of Fame QB in a pass-centric offense, while Brown caught from Jeff :censored:ing Hostetler and Rich Gannon.

Your only argument seems to be your eyes, but eyes lie, eyes are biased.

But I think Carter and Brown are both deserving. Reed? A great receiver, but he didn't stand out among his own team or his peers at the position. It won't be an injustice if Reed is inducted, but I would put him squarely behind the other two.

PFR blog

Could be. It's just my opinion. There's a distinct possibility I may have my head up my ass on this. But I stand by what I said. It's not bias. I have no allegiance to the Buffalo Bills. In fact, if being biased had anything to do with it, wouldn't I be supporting the Ohio State guy? To paraphrase Drakonious26; Brown just doesn't pass the "eye-test" with me. Sorry but that's where I stand on it.

[rams80]

Inductees named.

In no particular order...

Ed Sabol

Deion Sanders

Marshall Faulk

Richard Dent

Shannon Sharpe

Chris Hanburger

Les Richter

Better luck next year to everybody else.

[The_Admiral]

I don't fully believe that Shannon Sharpe walks among the the greats, but I don't understand football as well as others do.

[rams80]

I don't fully believe that Shannon Sharpe walks among the the greats, but I don't understand football as well as others do.

When he retired he held pretty much every Tight End record. Granted that was partially a function of nobody in the league using tight ends prior to him, but that's his claim to fame.

I am kind of confused about how the Chris Carter-Tim Brown-Andre Reed circle of death was resolved by saying "None of you go to the hall", except I seem to recall that, for reasons they never have seen fit to put in writing, the selection committee hates wideouts.