Subway/Transit System logos

[Kantinaky]

spam

[The_Admiral]

Not a logo, but I felt like posting this anyway. I am in love with the Toronto Subway Font.

http://www.blogto.co...ster_treatment/

That is just pure early-20th-c public-works elegance right there. I want the CTA to steal it.

[habsfan1]

The metro stations are very nice over here. I remember during a trip to Toronto several years ago, that at some stations the metro comes out of the underground and the tracks continue on the streets and then go back under. Over here, all Metros are fully underground and the one on the yellow line passes under the St-Lawrence river.

[raysfan24]

When I was in college at George Washington in DC, I had to take the Metro everyday to classes and it is the worst thing ever. The subway cars are totally screwed up. On the hottest days the A/C doesn't work but on the coldest day in the middle of winter, they have them in full blast! I rememer seeing at least one rodent every week on there, and I don't know how many fights I got into on that thing. I think about 11. Is it convent? Yes! Especially for me because I was coming from. Its great to get around the District but it's not the best thing in the world

[illwauk]

Here's the official map for the long overdue Milwaukee Streetcar. The blue part is expected to be up and running by 2018.

[The_Admiral]

Looks good. Congratulations on finally getting reasonable public transit in Milwaukee!

[illwauk]

Thank you, sir. Glad to have it, even if it is coming about two decades later than it should have... stupid suburbs.

(For the uninitiated, the first modern Milwaukee rail proposal in the 90s was to span the entire metro area, but it was shut down by suburban NIMBYs.)

[BBTV]

That doesn't make sense since property values usually rise when regional rail stations are built.

Is this new thing like a trolley / tram / light rail system, or subway, or bus routes?

[The_Admiral]

It's light rail.

And no, it doesn't make sense to oppose commuter rail, but I get what he's saying. There are stark racial/political divides between Milwaukee County and Waukesha County (and other collar counties, but that's the big clash), and Waukesha County only wants to bridge those divides on their terms, not Milwaukee's. Basically, their fear is that trains would facilitate access to their communities for people who don't have cars. You probably could have sold them on only running inbound trains until they realized this would mean nobody would be able to get back home from work.

Light rail should work well, but I'm not sure greater Milwaukee has the population base nor the centralized economy to make a full-scale commuter rail system work like it works in Chicago. I mean, truth be told, you can get downtown by car really damn fast. You just have to have a car.

[illwauk]

It's light rail.

And no, it doesn't make sense to oppose commuter rail, but I get what he's saying. There are stark racial/political divides between Milwaukee County and Waukesha County (and other collar counties, but that's the big clash), and Waukesha County only wants to bridge those divides on their terms, not Milwaukee's. Basically, their fear is that trains would facilitate access to their communities for people who don't have cars. You probably could have sold them on only running inbound trains until they realized this would mean nobody would be able to get back home from work.

Light rail should work well, but I'm not sure greater Milwaukee has the population base nor the centralized economy to make a full-scale commuter rail system work like it works in Chicago. I mean, truth be told, you can get downtown by car really damn fast. You just have to have a car.

To further emphasize this, Milwaukee has both the whitest and most politically conservative suburbs of any major US city... that's not exactly a coincidence. They want Waukesha County to be an enclave of modern sundown towns, and don't exactly try to hide it.

Now far as whether or not Milwaukee could facilitate a full-scale commuter rail? That's debatable. However, I do think it would make perfect sense to run the METRA at least up to Downtown Milwaukee, since the population density to the south is much greater than it is to the west. Of course, a lot of the people who live south of the city who aren't in Racine or Kenosha have the same attitudes as their counterparts in Waukesha County, which is what killed that proposal the first time.

[BBTV]

That line of thinking is just so backwards and harms not only the city but the suburbs that they're so adamant about protecting. When I look at Philly as an example (granted, much larger than Milwaukee and has greater challenges when it comes to commuting), there are huge office parks containing some companies' world headquarters that pump tons of money into the wealthy suburbs and can exist in large part because they can draw young, educated talent from the City, because you can take an hour long rail ride out to work. Rail (among other things), is what's lead to Philly's revitalization, as tens of thousands of young, educated, talented people who 15 years ago would never have thought about setting foot in the city (and even then, only in the center city) are now choosing to live in teh city, get rid of their cars, and eventually spread outside of center city and totally turn over many of the surrounding neighborhoods. I am an example of this, as is my neighborhood (featured in NY Times in a case study gentrification, which in this case isn't a euphemism for whites moving in and blacks moving out.)

Basically, with public transportation, everybody wins. City, suburbs, poor people, rich people, everybody. It creates opportunities and competition, and it all trickles down. It saddens me that there are still communities that fail to realize this.

[The_Admiral]

Now far as whether or not Milwaukee could facilitate a full-scale commuter rail? That's debatable. However, I do think it would make perfect sense to run the METRA at least up to Downtown Milwaukee, since the population density to the south is much greater than it is to the west.

I don't know about that one. You're dealing with a line that I think is the second-longest behind the South Shore, and already has a ton of stops because those North Shore suburbs are the original 19th-century railroad suburbs and often have two or three stations per town. It's a heavy-traffic line and they probably need to get those trains moving back and forth as often as possible. They'd have to run express from Kenosha or Waukegan to Ogilvie for it to make any sense, and I don't know whether those logistics work. Maybe you could have a separate service that runs express from Milwaukee to Racine and Kenosha, and then transfer to the Metra at Kenosha if you want to continue south, but I can't envision a local where you get on at Milwaukee and get off at one of the bazillion Wilmette/Winnetka stations.

Frankly, I'm surprised Scooter hasn't tried to kick Metra out of Kenosha. I'm sure he has tried, he just hasn't succeeded yet. I think there's a yard up there where they turn the trains around and if they lost Kenosha, they'd have to end the line at Waukegan and lose a couple stops in between.

[illwauk]

There actually was a proposed KRM (Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee) line that was essentially what you're referring to which, again, wasn't built because of suburban NIMBYs.

One of the most frustrating things about living in Wisconsin is how all of BBTV's very valid points would go over the head of almost everyone who doesn't live in Milwaukee, Madison, Racine or Kenosha... and probably even a significant chunk of the people who live in those last two towns. It really is Wississippi outside of those places.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, it would have to be something like that. I just don't think there's going to be high enough demand for one-seat rides from Caledonia to downtown Chicago.

I don't think that people in Waukesha County would be oblivious, per se, to the points BBTV made. I think they would realize all that but have just decided in spite of those points that they like things just the way they are, with low population density, big wide roads to nowhere, and an artificial feeling of safety and separation from The City. I think people in Brookfield would happily miss out on attracting young talented professionals in Milwaukee if it also meant keeping "undesirable elements" out because that's the way their math works. It's silly, because plenty of American metropolitan areas have very nice places to live that also have rail transit. In Chicago, the best ones do. You can pass through them taking the Metra down from Kenosha. I don't think gangs are descending upon Kenilworth (though Chief Keef has decamped to Northbrook).

[illwauk]

I get why you'd think that, but I still think you're giving them too much credit.

I've read a lot of "threats" on social media from folks in Waukesha County who claim the suburbs will stop supporting Milwaukee economically if we go through with a streetcar. That's right... the same people who live in a place that wouldn't even exist if not for its ability to sponge off Milwaukee economically and haven't supported Milwaukee economically since Mayfair Mall and Brookfield Square have been around think Milwaukee couldn't possibly survive without their patronage.

Let that sink in for a moment....

[crashcarson15]

No, we've got the same thing in Indianapolis where the counties outside the city don't want anything to do with light/commuter rail.

Also, we may never even get to vote on mass transit because the state legislature might not let the Indy metro even vote on it. Because if we approve the plan, it'd be a tax increase, and all the Republicans in Indianapolis ran on "no new taxes."

Yes, the legislature may not let us vote on whether or not we want to increase our own taxes because they promised they wouldn't raise them.

[The_Admiral]

Wait, why are the suburbanites protesting Milwaukee's streetcar that appears to run entirely within Milwaukee city limits? Because they might expand it later? Maybe I am giving them too much credit. It's too bad, because Brookfield and Waukesha and all those seem like perfectly nice places to live and raise a family, but you shouldn't have to be such an ass about it.

I think the only case of a collar county not wanting to support the Metra is DeKalb County, which is stretching the definition of "collar county," anyway. Metra has floated the idea of extending the Union Pacific West to DeKalb so that NIU would have a rail connection to Chicago, but the rest of the county, which is rural to say the least, has dug its heels on No New Taxes, even though the RTA tax is only like 0.5% or something and would make DeKalb feel like a little less of an island in a sea of corn. (From the other side, I suspect Metra also wanted to get an entire county's worth of sales-tax revenue with a college town where lots of money changes hands while only having to provide limited service to that area.) But they don't want it, so that's that.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are bitching that they're raising our fares again.

[OnWis97]

Wait, why are the suburbanites protesting Milwaukee's streetcar that appears to run entirely within Milwaukee city limits? Because they might expand it later? Maybe I am giving them too much credit. It's too bad, because Brookfield and Waukesha and all those seem like perfectly nice places to live and raise a family, but you shouldn't have to be such an ass about it.

I think the only case of a collar county not wanting to support the Metra is DeKalb County, which is stretching the definition of "collar county," anyway. Metra has floated the idea of extending the Union Pacific West to DeKalb so that NIU would have a rail connection to Chicago, but the rest of the county, which is rural to say the least, has dug its heels on No New Taxes, even though the RTA tax is only like 0.5% or something and would make DeKalb feel like a little less of an island in a sea of corn. (From the other side, I suspect Metra also wanted to get an entire county's worth of sales-tax revenue with a college town where lots of money changes hands while only having to provide limited service to that area.) But they don't want it, so that's that.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are bitching that they're raising our fares again.

It could be because of a (perceived or real) belief that the money to pay for it will come at the cost of another interchange to facilitate leapfrog development. Even if 80% of the money is to be federal (and would go to some state place if not the streetcar), a lot of people don't want the state/local to cover the match and/or they think they are making a big statement that will trickle nationwide and we'll stop "wasting money on choo choos and put it into expanding the (apparently) inadequate roadway system." This is the state that reelected a Governor who set high-speed rail way back but still believes in the old system of pouring money into roads.

That is going on big time in the Twin Cities right now. It's in large part a function of the fact that transportation resources are as scarce as ever and it's pitting cities vs. suburbs (actually suburbs are whining and cities are not saying much) and road warriors vs. transit (and bike/ped). Combine that with the fact that over the last 10-20 years attitudes and federal priority have shifted from moving cars to moving people and a lot of folks are really struggling with the change. We'll have to find money just to maintain the roads we have and these people want to continue the 1970s practice of laying more pavement to "build out of congestion" (which really cannot be done or there'd be no congestion in places like LA and Atlanta).

I cannot speak for Milwaukee but here I don't really see a ton of racial undertones (outside of newspaper comment sections, of course). It's mostly about the perception of competing with transit/cities for money. Most of the money is not that flexible...so they cannot kill the Milwaukee Streetcar and put it towards the Brookfield Luxury Lane and Interchange, but some locals probably don't understand that.

On topic, I ride the below train every day and I had to google to see whether the Twin Cities even has a logo. They have the "T" and a wordmark. No 70s-looking logo (like much of this thread) but not too memorable.

[illwauk]

Wait, why are the suburbanites protesting Milwaukee's streetcar that appears to run entirely within Milwaukee city limits? Because they might expand it later? Maybe I am giving them too much credit. It's too bad, because Brookfield and Waukesha and all those seem like perfectly nice places to live and raise a family, but you shouldn't have to be such an ass about it.

I think the only case of a collar county not wanting to support the Metra is DeKalb County, which is stretching the definition of "collar county," anyway. Metra has floated the idea of extending the Union Pacific West to DeKalb so that NIU would have a rail connection to Chicago, but the rest of the county, which is rural to say the least, has dug its heels on No New Taxes, even though the RTA tax is only like 0.5% or something and would make DeKalb feel like a little less of an island in a sea of corn. (From the other side, I suspect Metra also wanted to get an entire county's worth of sales-tax revenue with a college town where lots of money changes hands while only having to provide limited service to that area.) But they don't want it, so that's that.

Meanwhile, the rest of us are bitching that they're raising our fares again.

The short answer? There really is that much of an irrational hatred of Milwaukee engrained into the culture of our suburbs... mind you, these are the same dopes who b~tched about our friggin' bike sharing program! It's really hard to explain to people who don't live here because there doesn't seem to be any other urban/suburban divide that's as pronounced as ours. Detroit comes close, but Detroit isn't a growing city and hasn't seen nearly as much urban renewal as Milwaukee has over the past decade and some change.

It seems that a couple cats have been let out of the bag in recent years that are really sticking in the craw of most suburbanites... one that Milwaukee can (and in many ways, has) turned itself around econmically and culturally without any support or cooperation from its suburbs, and another that nothing short of Leave It To Beaver perfection in Milwaukee will ever be good enough for the suburbs. Milwaukee is starting to realize these things and make decisions accordingly, without regard for how its suburbs might feel. While I understand why that would make a lot of suburbanites insecure, as you said, they don't have to be dicks about it. Heck, they could do the sensible thing and stop assuming everywhere in Milwaukee that's not Miller Park is just scary dark-skinned welfare recipients ready to prey on innocent honkies, but I won't hold my breath.

Metra to DeKalb seems like a no-brainer. I would imagine the mentality of those who live in rural DeKalb County is very akin to what we deal with from every collar county around here.

It could be because of a (perceived or real) belief that the money to pay for it will come at the cost of another interchange to facilitate leapfrog development. Even if 80% of the money is to be federal (and would go to some state place if not the streetcar), a lot of people don't want the state/local to cover the match and/or they think they are making a big statement that will trickle nationwide and we'll stop "wasting money on choo choos and put it into expanding the (apparently) inadequate roadway system." This is the state that reelected a Governor who set high-speed rail way back but still believes in the old system of pouring money into roads.

Most of the money is not that flexible...so they cannot kill the Milwaukee Streetcar and put it towards the Brookfield Luxury Lane and Interchange, but some locals probably don't understand that.

There is a frustrating element of this, but that's because it's easy for the AM talkers (who are insanely popular with commuters) to sell to audiences who are too lazy to fact check.

Anyway, my contribution to still keep this thread somewhat in the spirit of the topic is a photo of a Milwaukee streetcar from the early 20th century. LOVE that color scheme and hope they use it on the new one.

[The_Admiral]

Metra to DeKalb seems like a no-brainer. I would imagine the mentality of those who live in rural DeKalb County is very akin to what we deal with from every collar county around here.

Yes and no. It's too far west to really be a satellite of Chicago. There are no suburbs and not even any exurbs; DeKalb County (and we pronounce the L, for any Georgians reading) is just a university and a whole lot of corn. Rail service to DeKalb would be for students to go home/to the city on weekends inasmuch as there's not really any commuting going on between DeKalb and Chicago. Unfortunately, the students wouldn't be able to vote for the RTA tax because they don't really live in the county. The farmers aren't going to vote to throw money away. Also, I suspect service to a DeKalb terminus would be rather limited (most trains on that line end at Geneva as it is), so the county would be paying for just a couple trains at one station rather than the full service the rest of the Metra counties get. I realize this is a "the food was terrible and such small portions" thing, yeah.

It would be nice to give students the perk of train rides to/from Chicago, but ultimately, I'd rather see Metra focus on improving service in the city, like an Addison Street stop on the North Line for easier access to Cubs games, or any number of improvements to the piss-soaked electric lines on the south side.

I like that shade of yellow-orange. It's very eye-catching. I especially like the WPA-era poster on the front.