2011 BYU Basketball Jerseys (navy blue) - on sale anywhere?

[dakotapalm]

Okay let's clarify some things.

#1 The church is NOT affliated with BYU, it RUNS BYU.

#2 The rules of BYU are in harmony with the rules of the church, stating no sexual relations outside of the bonds of marriage including premarital sex. (Whether you agree with that or not, has nothing to do with this issue.)

#3 Everyone who agrees to go to BYU, signs a contract that they will adhere to church policies and rules (no drinking, smoking, sexual relations outside of marriage, etc.)

#4 The kid signed the contract, and acted on his free will and violated the contract knowing what the consequences would be.

#5 The church or BYU did not cause the kid to violate his contract.

#6 By airing this out in public? They probably sent out a press release stating that he was off the team for violations. When people asked they responded. The media was going to find out. Will this ruin his life, education, professional development and church standing? Not a chance.

#7 This team was not going to the Final Four like many predicted, it just wasn't going to happen. Final 16 maybe, Final Four, not a chance in hell. They played no one and beat no one. This was a good team, but not the team people are making it out to be.

#8 If you think people are idiots for sticking to their morals, well, I'm sorry for you. Life isn't about getting everything in life that you want. It's about growing as an individual and learning to deal with life's setbacks and trials. That is the real lesson in this whole story. How each individual deals with the setback from the kid who violated the code to the coaches and players who are playing without a good teammate.

Well said. Meanwhile, how about a school that doesn't have a separate set of rules for athletes. I'm glad to see they weren't hypocritical about this. Choices have consequences.

[The_Admiral]

On the contrary, BYU alumni have chimed in that there are indeed separate rules for athletes at BYU, and that honor code violations are handled more privately, if at all, when you're not suiting up on ESPN as an ambassador of the Mormon Church. So he gets more, not less, scrutiny for playing a sport and making the school a lot of money. Don't give me this "choices have consequences" finger-wagging crap. People weren't this hard on Jamar Smith when he left his teammate for dead in a crashed car and played X-Box. Safe and consensual sex among young adults should not be subject to this sort of punishment. That's not a world anyone should have to live in, not even in goofy-ass Utah.

Oh, here's a fun example of how the Mormons so admirably stuck to their principles. Until like 30 or 40 years ago, black people were thought to be cursed with black skin because of old biblical sins and were thus marked as sinners and subhumans unable to serve in the priesthood. Now, with the Mormons, "the priesthood" isn't like the Catholic priesthood, where it's just a weird little haven of creepy old men who want to have sex with boys and have it be socially acceptable. It's more like a confirmation or bar mitzvah sort of deal, where everyone past a certain age with a certain amount of religious education is eligible to do certain rituals and lead other ones and so forth. So pretty much every male is expected to be, in some sense, part of the "priesthood." When it became evident to the missionaries that they were really missing out on a target demographic with this whole second-class citizen thing, and they could get a lot more people's ten percents if they reconsidered that whole cursed-with-non-delightsome-black-skin deal, what do you think happened? Do you think the Church "stuck to its principles"? Hell no. Their withered old leader popped his head out of his phony-baloney Rocky Mountain Vatican and said "oops, there was a clerical error! Black people aren't spiritually scarred after all! My mistake!", and so black folks and their tithes were all warmly accepted as full-service Mormons. Where were their principles then? Why was it suddenly okay to be a black priest when their religion said they were made inferior in their scripture? WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THAT OR NOT, SUPERFLUOUS COMMA, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE. They wanted more money and got it.

[Mingjai]

On the contrary, BYU alumni have chimed in that there are indeed separate rules for athletes at BYU, and that honor code violations are handled more privately, if at all, when you're not suiting up on ESPN as an ambassador of the Mormon Church. So he gets more, not less, scrutiny for playing a sport and making the school a lot of money. Don't give me this "choices have consequences" finger-wagging crap. People weren't this hard on Jamar Smith when he left his teammate for dead in a crashed car and played X-Box. Safe and consensual sex among young adults should not be subject to this sort of punishment. That's not a world anyone should have to live in, not even in goofy-ass Utah.

Oh, here's a fun example of how the Mormons so admirably stuck to their principles. Until like 30 or 40 years ago, black people were thought to be cursed with black skin because of old biblical sins and were thus marked as sinners and subhumans unable to serve in the priesthood. Now, with the Mormons, "the priesthood" isn't like the Catholic priesthood, where it's just a weird little haven of creepy old men who want to have sex with boys and have it be socially acceptable. It's more like a confirmation or bar mitzvah sort of deal, where everyone past a certain age with a certain amount of religious education is eligible to do certain rituals and lead other ones and so forth. So pretty much every male is expected to be, in some sense, part of the "priesthood." When it became evident to the missionaries that they were really missing out on a target demographic with this whole second-class citizen thing, and they could get a lot more people's ten percents if they reconsidered that whole cursed-with-non-delightsome-black-skin deal, what do you think happened? Do you think the Church "stuck to its principles"? Hell no. Their withered old leader popped his head out of his phony-baloney Rocky Mountain Vatican and said "oops, there was a clerical error! Black people aren't spiritually scarred after all! My mistake!", and so black folks and their tithes were all warmly accepted as full-service Mormons. Where were their principles then? Why was it suddenly okay to be a black priest when their religion said they were made inferior in their scripture? WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THAT OR NOT, SUPERFLUOUS COMMA, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE. They wanted more money and got it.

If you want to bash my or anyone else's religion, at least go over to the lounge so I won't ever have to see it.

[O.C.D]

On the contrary, BYU alumni have chimed in that there are indeed separate rules for athletes at BYU, and that honor code violations are handled more privately, if at all, when you're not suiting up on ESPN as an ambassador of the Mormon Church. So he gets more, not less, scrutiny for playing a sport and making the school a lot of money. Don't give me this "choices have consequences" finger-wagging crap. People weren't this hard on Jamar Smith when he left his teammate for dead in a crashed car and played X-Box. Safe and consensual sex among young adults should not be subject to this sort of punishment. That's not a world anyone should have to live in, not even in goofy-ass Utah.

Oh, here's a fun example of how the Mormons so admirably stuck to their principles. Until like 30 or 40 years ago, black people were thought to be cursed with black skin because of old biblical sins and were thus marked as sinners and subhumans unable to serve in the priesthood. Now, with the Mormons, "the priesthood" isn't like the Catholic priesthood, where it's just a weird little haven of creepy old men who want to have sex with boys and have it be socially acceptable. It's more like a confirmation or bar mitzvah sort of deal, where everyone past a certain age with a certain amount of religious education is eligible to do certain rituals and lead other ones and so forth. So pretty much every male is expected to be, in some sense, part of the "priesthood." When it became evident to the missionaries that they were really missing out on a target demographic with this whole second-class citizen thing, and they could get a lot more people's ten percents if they reconsidered that whole cursed-with-non-delightsome-black-skin deal, what do you think happened? Do you think the Church "stuck to its principles"? Hell no. Their withered old leader popped his head out of his phony-baloney Rocky Mountain Vatican and said "oops, there was a clerical error! Black people aren't spiritually scarred after all! My mistake!", and so black folks and their tithes were all warmly accepted as full-service Mormons. Where were their principles then? Why was it suddenly okay to be a black priest when their religion said they were made inferior in their scripture? WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THAT OR NOT, SUPERFLUOUS COMMA, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE. They wanted more money and got it.

If you want to bash my or anyone else's religion, at least go over to the lounge so I won't ever have to see it.

I absolutely agree with Mingjai. I'm not a fan of any organized religion, but don't piggy back your religious moral ideals on a jersey thread dude.

[The_Admiral]

Threads evolve. I'm not sorry. Someone made a joke, and another guy made a dumbass remark about the school, and I responded. If the last few posts can be spun off into a dedicated thread on the relative merits of booting a player for shtupping a girl, that would be terrific. We can discuss it further and not burn any tender eyes along the way.

[Mings]

The question needs asked...who in the hell told the school? A voyuer? A roommate that was kicked out of the room so he could have private time or did someone file a noise complaint and see the cowboy hat on the door knob?

[wyopokes2]

The question needs asked...who in the hell told the school? A voyuer? A roommate that was kicked out of the room so he could have private time or did someone file a noise complaint and see the cowboy hat on the door knob?

He should have locked the door No but I heard he turned himself in. Not exactly the thing I would have done with such consequences. How would you go about turning yourself in anyway? "Hey Coach I have something to tell you. Last night I turned a single into an inside the park home run."

On a side note I feel obligated to mention the "Black 14" as a UW student. I feel most people forget about it, and it was a great notion by great kids.

[Mingjai]

The question needs asked...who in the hell told the school? A voyuer? A roommate that was kicked out of the room so he could have private time or did someone file a noise complaint and see the cowboy hat on the door knob?

I will say this before this thread dies--as a BYU student, I didn't mind the Honor Code itself, but I disliked the way it tended to create a culture of snitches. 99% of the student body was cool and wouldn't say anything to anyone unless the behavior was a safety issue--e.g., drinking and driving, robbery, etc. But it takes only one squealer to ruin it for everyone.

To me, the annoying thing was that any violation of the Honor Code was likely a violation of some church commandment, which put you in a feeling of double jeopardy. Around campus, the general sentiment was that ecclesiastical leaders were often very forgiving and would hold anything told to them in confidence, while the Honor Code Office--mere school administrators have no ecclesiastical authority over individuals--are the ones who invoke the stiffer penalties (anything from probation to expulsion).

I suppose there is an inevitable amount of hypocrisy that shows up in any organized religion, and parochial nature of BYU makes hypocrisy even more apparent, but adherents of any religion have to learn to deal with the "enforcers" who seem to be jealous that you can get away a little sin while they're living the straight and narrow. Don't get me wrong, I'm a true blue 3rd-gen BYU grad, but I've never been a fan of the BYU Honor Code administrators and their henchmen.

[Mings]

The question needs asked...who in the hell told the school? A voyuer? A roommate that was kicked out of the room so he could have private time or did someone file a noise complaint and see the cowboy hat on the door knob?

I will say this before this thread dies--as a BYU student, I didn't mind the Honor Code itself, but I disliked the way it tended to create a culture of snitches. 99% of the student body was cool and wouldn't say anything to anyone unless the behavior was a safety issue--e.g., drinking and driving, robbery, etc. But it takes only one squealer to ruin it for everyone.

To me, the annoying thing was that any violation of the Honor Code was likely a violation of some church commandment, which put you in a feeling of double jeopardy. Around campus, the general sentiment was that ecclesiastical leaders were often very forgiving and would hold anything told to them in confidence, while the Honor Code Office--mere school administrators have no ecclesiastical authority over individuals--are the ones who invoke the stiffer penalties (anything from probation to expulsion).

I suppose there is an inevitable amount of hypocrisy that shows up in any organized religion, and parochial nature of BYU makes hypocrisy even more apparent, but adherents of any religion have to learn to deal with the "enforcers" who seem to be jealous that you can get away a little sin while they're living the straight and narrow. Don't get me wrong, I'm a true blue 3rd-gen BYU grad, but I've never been a fan of the BYU Honor Code administrators and their henchmen.

I find it quite odd that a bureaucratic office is responsible for Honor Code violations. I would much rather see church leaders involved in that due to as you pointed out, their better handling of those situations.

[gdu]

The question needs asked...who in the hell told the school? A voyuer? A roommate that was kicked out of the room so he could have private time or did someone file a noise complaint and see the cowboy hat on the door knob?

I heard it was the dad of the white girl he knocked up, who is a minister (or whatever it is called) in the LDS church.

[The_Admiral]

Guess he's lucky he just got kicked out of school/minor league basketball. He could've been shot so as to atone for his sins!

[Mings]

Are they going to castrate him and replace his nuts with neuticles now?

[ltjets21]

I'm looking for a St.Johns Jersey anyone know where I can find one?

[ltjets21]

?

[DrAwesomeberry]

There ya go, chief.

[WSU151]

I'm looking for a St.Johns Jersey anyone know where I can find one?

?

Did Google go out of business recently?

Try the St. John's Bookstore - they have them in stock. Found it using Google though. Watch out...it's a little intimidating at first.