2012 MLB & Logo Changes

[powersurge]

The logo, Chief Wahoo, is racist. It should have been dropped decades ago.

The logo, however, is not the same as the name. The name, "Indians," is a historical term used to describe people indigenous to the Americas. The guy who coined it made a mistake in thinking he was in India, but that doesn't make the term itself offensive. It wasn't said or used to demean or offend, like the c word you used as an example. That is used specifically to offend. "Indian" isn't. It's just an incorrect phrase that's endured through time.

So the logo's terrible, but the name's ok.

I've seen this argument on this board about 1000 times and I have to admit that despite the fact that there have been a multitude of great arguments on both sides it hasn't changed my opinion on the subject; the logo is indeed racist. I have changed my view on the name though. You can make a strong case that the name really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Is it the most appropriate? Eh...who knows? There are worse names out there....the Redskins are one example of a name that is much worse. The Chief Wahoo logo is a lot harder to defend though. It is racist, even if it wasn't originally intended to be, which is why I wish they would have switched to the 'C' logo years ago.

Indians isn't nearly as bad as Redskins or even Braves (which itself isn't even on the level of the latter), but I think there's still something to be said about naming a team after an entire race... not an ethnicity with its own unique culture and heritage, but essentially painting over all types of unique ethnic groups with one broad brush. Whereas you can sort-of compare names like Utes, Chippewas, Seminoles to Irish, calling a team the Indians is like calling a team the Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Africans, etc. Nothing wrong with those words in and of themselves either, but not only would it not make logical sense to use them as the basis of an identity of a major North American pro sports franchise, people would rightfully question your motives for doing so.

That said, I could probably live with the Cleveland Indians name if they just got rid of Wahoo.

Chief Wahoo is just as racist as Notre Dame's fighting leprechaun and i don't see people bitching about that.

You must be new!

I understand your point and its well taken, but I just don't seem to think that those names fall under the same category as "Indians". I know that none of us really needs a history lesson but for the purpose of clarity: Columbus basically thought he landed in India, hence the name Indians. So in his mind he was correct by calling them Indians and if he had indeed landed in India he would have been correct. I might be way off here, but the origin of the name "Indians" seems to have less to do with labeling a race then just using the wrong name. If you live in a country named India then you are indeed an Indian and there's nothing wrong with calling someone that if its indeed accurate. That being said, I think the real issue was that over the course of hundreds of years no one had the balls to say "Hey, lets get rid of this name not because its racist but mainly because its just totally inaccurate". Obviously over time the name has morphed into the cultural labeling that you are referring to but I just don't hold it in the same regard to "Blacks, Hispanics, etc". Again, I'm probably way off in my reasoning... probably due to the fact I'm a child of the late 70's and I'm chock full of desensitization in regards to this subject courtesy of cartoons, my 4th grade teacher, and television....go figure

[powersurge]

Yes, IMHO it still does. For one thing, the logo is a little small. Maybe it's just that I'm so used to seeing patches made differently that I'm conditioned to think that a high-end patch looks a certain way, but for some reason when I see that 3d logo I think of something I'd see on the rack at walmart. I agree with you though that I'd probably think differently if I could see it in person and touch it.

It does look beautiful in person. The Wal-Marts in Philly must be head and shoulders above the ones elsewhere, because I've never seen anything as nice as the Jays' 3D embroidered logo on anything from the Wal-Marts I've been too.

The league doesn't allow guns or cigars on a one time only throwback but they allow a racially-offensive moniker to be used full time? WTF

Racially insensitive?

Using "Indian" to refer to Native Americans is considered incredibly racially insensitive.

Actually, that isn't true. According to the US Census Bureau, 55% of people who identified as indigenous preferred the term "American Indian," 34% preferred "Native American" and the remainder preferred other terms or had no preference; you would think, I guess, that we should listen the indigenous people of the Americas.

Not only that, but the term "Indian" to refer to indigenous peoples in the Americas wasn't meant to be offensive. Christopher Columbus, the schmuck, thought he was in India. So he called the people he came across "Indians." He didn't call them that to demean them.

So it's an inaccurate term and an incorrect term. It's not an offensive term, however.

What about the fact that their logo is the equivalent of putting a Chinese guy with yellow skin and thin eyes, calling him a specific word that begins with a "c", and finding nothing wrong with it?

The logo, Chief Wahoo, is racist. It should have been dropped decades ago.

The logo, however, is not the same as the name. The name, "Indians," is a historical term used to describe people indigenous to the Americas. The guy who coined it made a mistake in thinking he was in India, but that doesn't make the term itself offensive. It wasn't said or used to demean or offend, like the c word you used as an example. That is used specifically to offend. "Indian" isn't. It's just an incorrect phrase that's endured through time.

So the logo's terrible, but the name's ok.

I've seen this argument on this board about 1000 times and I have to admit that despite the fact that there have been a multitude of great arguments on both sides it hasn't changed my opinion on the subject; the logo is indeed racist. I have changed my view on the name though. You can make a strong case that the name really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Is it the most appropriate? Eh...who knows? There are worse names out there....the Redskins are one example of a name that is much worse. The Chief Wahoo logo is a lot harder to defend though. It is racist, even if it wasn't originally intended to be, which is why I wish they would have switched to the 'C' logo years ago.

Chief Wahoo is just as racist as Notre Dame's fighting leprechaun and i don't see people bitching about that.

LOL...welcome to the board. Have you heard that the Cowboys have mismatching blues?

[CubsFanBudMan]

Not sure how I feel about these. I've been asking for them to remove the pin stripes for years but now I'm not sure if I'm ready for this. I guess it will take time to get used to. Its still the right thing to do.

For the sake of getting back on track on a new page... I see no need for these. It's a shame that the Rockies took a uniform that was unique (by Twins default) and dumped it for these. They still have the black vest with black sleeves' uniqueness to fall back on, but I'd take road pinstripes any day over those. They're not for everyone, but just fine for a 1993 expansion team.

[HighCheese]

so the Pads, Giants, Rockies all get new road unis, and now all 3 have chest piping

[oddball]

so the Pads, Giants, Rockies all get new road unis, and now all 3 have chest piping

And your point is what?

[HighCheese]

no point

making an observation

i'll go one further

every team in the division did something. new unis or logos or both for the pads

[Enio125]

I know the Notre Dame leprechaun has been mentioned plenty of times before but it just seems to me that every other thread is talking about getting rid of Chief Wahoo when other similarly (if not more) offensive logos seem to get more of a pass.

[McCall]

Not sure how I feel about these. I've been asking for them to remove the pin stripes for years but now I'm not sure if I'm ready for this. I guess it will take time to get used to. Its still the right thing to do.

For the sake of getting back on track on a new page... I see no need for these. It's a shame that the Rockies took a uniform that was unique (by Twins default) and dumped it for these. They still have the black vest with black sleeves' uniqueness to fall back on, but I'd take road pinstripes any day over those. They're not for everyone, but just fine for a 1993 expansion team.

Again, unique/different does not always mean good. Their pinstripe roads looked horrible, to be honest. The Twins are the only team that has ever looked good in them.

[WSU151]

no point

making an observation

i'll go one further

every team in the division did something. new unis or logos or both for the pads

What did the Diamondbacks do?

[HighCheese]

no point

making an observation

i'll go one further

every team in the division did something. new unis or logos or both for the pads

What did the Diamondbacks do?

made this the official primary

[Gothamite]

I know the Notre Dame leprechaun has been mentioned plenty of times before but it just seems to me that every other thread is talking about getting rid of Chief Wahoo when other similarly (if not more) offensive logos seem to get more of a pass.

Wahoo's pretty high-profile, being in MLB. No surprise he takes a lot of the heat.

What more offensive logos do you think are getting a pass?

[KJTALBOT]

The COLORADO in that uniform looks black to me. If it's purple, it is an entirely different shade than the number.

[Gothamite]

The COLORADO in that uniform looks black to me. If it's purple, it is an entirely different shade than the number.

It's the same shade, but proportionally there's more black outline on the wordmark than the numbers. The numbers are mostly purple with a slight black outline, whereas the letters are mostly black with a little purple at the center.

[PhlyBoy]

Does anyone know if the Brew Crew is going to bust out their Gold tops again this year? I believe they only wore them for 1 game last year (against the Phillies?)

Honestly, I did not mind them and wouldn't mind if they used them once in awhile at home

[mcrosby]

They will have a jersey with the Italian word for 'Brewers' on it. No word on what color it will be. Last year's German jersey was blue. (and gorgeous, still trying to get my hands on one)

[TheOldRoman]

I wasn't personally in love with the Brewers' gold alts. All other gold on their uniforms is metallic gold. This just looked tan. This may be the best look possible with their current set, but I still feel the best bet for them is to return to blue and athletic yellow.

[rainmaker17]

Not sure if this has been posted.

Will be worn on the right sleeve this season.

[BigBubba]

I know the Notre Dame leprechaun has been mentioned plenty of times before but it just seems to me that every other thread is talking about getting rid of Chief Wahoo when other similarly (if not more) offensive logos seem to get more of a pass.

Leprechauns aren't real...

[Bouj]

Does anyone know if the Brew Crew is going to bust out their Gold tops again this year? I believe they only wore them for 1 game last year (against the Phillies?)

Honestly, I did not mind them and wouldn't mind if they used them once in awhile at home

They wore gold alts twice in 2011. Last year's Cerveceros jerseys were also gold.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Does anyone know if the Brew Crew is going to bust out their Gold tops again this year? I believe they only wore them for 1 game last year (against the Phillies?)

Honestly, I did not mind them and wouldn't mind if they used them once in awhile at home

I hope so, I think they look awesome. I hope the Pirates also come to their senses and adopt a yellow alternate in the near future. I'm a big fan of gold/yellow/orange baseball jerseys (as long as the pants aren't the same color of course).