Is Atlanta Burning?

[BBTV]

Is Rose Garden really that out dated already? Just questioning because the Wells Fargo Center in Phila. only opened one year later (at a lower cost), and is still considered by most accounts to have more than adequate facilities.

It's not that it is outdated, it's that it was built for the Trail Blazers and just happens to house a WHL team for half a season. Wells Fargo was built with both the Sixers and Flyers in mind, correct?

Well the Fylers built it, and along the way simultaneously merged with Comcast and acquired the Sixers, so while the Sixers weren't in the picture on day 1, I'm pretty sure they had the foresight to consider them as a possible tenant.

I'm pretty sure the Rose Garden has the size to host an NHL team if it was called to do so. Just looking at the design it was built with multi-purpose in mind. The seats are positioned way too far back to be basketball only. Compare the design of the Rose Garden to the AT&T Center, or Conseco Fieldhouse which are meant to be essentially basketball only.

It's not the size nor configuration that's being called into question.

[IceCap]

I would love to see the NHL in Seattle and Portland. I think the three way northwestern rivalry that exists in soccer could easily carry over to the NHL. Of course Seattle's lack of a suitable rink and Paul Allen's apparent unwillingness to share the Rose Garden with a team he doesn't own puts the kibosh on that. It's a nice thought though.

[DustDevil61]

I would love to see the NHL in Seattle and Portland. I think the three way northwestern rivalry that exists in soccer could easily carry over to the NHL. Of course Seattle's lack of a suitable rink and Paul Allen's apparent unwillingness to share the Rose Garden with a team he doesn't own puts the kibosh on that. It's a nice thought though.

So would I. Why the NHL hasn't had much of a desire (arena issues in Seattle and Paul Allen in Portland aside) to expand here aside from the potential Portland bid in the late 1990s is beyond me. Weren't the Seattle Metropolitans the first US team to win the Stanley Cup?

As for the next 5 NHL cities, I think that they'll be in this order:

1. Winnipeg--With TNSE more likely to bring the Jets back home than not, and with the Coyotes situations looking dimmer by the day, I'd be very surprised if the 'Yotes would still be in Arizona after next year at the very most.

2. Kansas City--With a newer arena (Sprint Center), I can see Hulsizer buying a struggling team and moving them there if he doesn't get the Coyotes.

3. Quebec City--A new arena looks to be going up in a few years (2015?) with some rumblings of a possible move to the old Colisee while the new building is built.

4. Hamilton--I don't think that the NHL can either hold off on this market forever.

5. Houston--There's an arena and a history of hockey here; while Les Alexander (who owns the NBA Rockets) isn't terribly concerned with getting a team, I feel as though a team could be calling Houston within 10 years by way of another ownership group.

Other sites that could pop up in about 10 years if one of the 5 above doesn't work (given enough time for new arenas, ownership groups, etc. to get going):

--Portland

--Seattle

--Salt Lake

--Las Vegas

--Norfolk

As for the Thrashers, I still think that things can work there, provided that there's a good ownership there (i.e., if Tom Glavine and his posse--whoever they may be--get the money to buy the team).

[TBGKon]

If Atlanta and Phoenix move the divisions will be a mess for sure.

Phoenix is more of a tough one than Atlanta would be. If Atlanta goes West, Nashville could easily replace them in the Southeast division

[charger77]

If Atlanta and Phoenix move the divisions will be a mess for sure.

Phoenix is more of a tough one than Atlanta would be. If Atlanta goes West, Nashville could easily replace them in the Southeast division

If Phoenix goes to Winnipeg they could join the Northwest and Colorado can go to the Pacific.

If Atlanta goes to Quebec:

Nashville could go to the Southeast, Atlanta to the Northeast and Buffalo to the Central?

Or

Boston to the Atlantic and Pittsburgh to the Central (but that would break up 4 games of Crosby/Ovechkin so probably not?)

[IceCap]

If any team has to go to the central I would prefer it to be the Leafs.

[Gary]

If Atlanta and Phoenix move the divisions will be a mess for sure.

Phoenix is more of a tough one than Atlanta would be. If Atlanta goes West, Nashville could easily replace them in the Southeast division

If Phoenix goes to Winnipeg they could join the Northwest and Colorado can go to the Pacific.

If Atlanta goes to Quebec:

Nashville could go to the Southeast, Atlanta to the Northeast and Buffalo to the Central?

Or

Boston to the Atlantic and Pittsburgh to the Central (but that would break up 4 games of Crosby/Ovechkin so probably not?)

My head just exploded!

[webdav]

I would love to see the NHL in Seattle and Portland. I think the three way northwestern rivalry that exists in soccer could easily carry over to the NHL. Of course Seattle's lack of a suitable rink and Paul Allen's apparent unwillingness to share the Rose Garden with a team he doesn't own puts the kibosh on that. It's a nice thought though.

So would I. Why the NHL hasn't had much of a desire (arena issues in Seattle and Paul Allen in Portland aside) to expand here aside from the potential Portland bid in the late 1990s is beyond me. Weren't the Seattle Metropolitans the first US team to win the Stanley Cup?

As for the next 5 NHL cities, I think that they'll be in this order:

1. Winnipeg--With TNSE more likely to bring the Jets back home than not, and with the Coyotes situations looking dimmer by the day, I'd be very surprised if the 'Yotes would still be in Arizona after next year at the very most.

2. Kansas City--With a newer arena (Sprint Center), I can see Hulsizer buying a struggling team and moving them there if he doesn't get the Coyotes.

3. Quebec City--A new arena looks to be going up in a few years (2015?) with some rumblings of a possible move to the old Colisee while the new building is built.

4. Hamilton--I don't think that the NHL can either hold off on this market forever.

5. Houston--There's an arena and a history of hockey here; while Les Alexander (who owns the NBA Rockets) isn't terribly concerned with getting a team, I feel as though a team could be calling Houston within 10 years by way of another ownership group.

Other sites that could pop up in about 10 years if one of the 5 above doesn't work (given enough time for new arenas, ownership groups, etc. to get going):

--Portland

--Seattle

--Salt Lake

--Las Vegas

--Norfolk

As for the Thrashers, I still think that things can work there, provided that there's a good ownership there (i.e., if Tom Glavine and his posse--whoever they may be--get the money to buy the team).

As far as 1, 3 and 4 above, the NHL likely has some serious reservations about Canadian franchises simply because of what things were like when the Canadian dollar was weak. One of those three will get a team and the others will wait for the NHL to see that it's working.

As far as 5, I think the NHL probably looks at it as a possibility, but also has reservations about yet-another Southern team. I'm not saying it'd never happen, but if teams are struggling in other southern venues, why would they take a risk on Houston.

For the five you list below, I think PDX and Seattle would be great, but I think it's more likely that one (probably Portland right now because they have an NHL-type arena) would happen. Not both. I live in the Northwest (Montana) and go to Seattle and Portland often. I have tons of friends in both. The ones in Seattle are like spurned lovers who want nothing more than to get their Sonics back. They could care less about an NHL team.

Salt Lake sounds like a good idea, but it's doubtful. It's about as likely as Spokane.

I'm sure every sports league has concerns about Vegas. It looks like a market to expand to, but none of the leagues want to associate with gambling even a little bit. And Vegas IS gambling. And it has a fairly transient population - new people coming, more leaving, tourists, etc. I don't think it would/could support a major sports franchise for long.

I confess to not knowing enough about Norfolk to make a case either way.

Two you left out: Oklahoma City and Milwaukee.

[rams80]

Oklahoma City and Milwaukee won't get teams as long as there are NBA teams there.

[IceCap]

I would love to see the NHL in Seattle and Portland. I think the three way northwestern rivalry that exists in soccer could easily carry over to the NHL. Of course Seattle's lack of a suitable rink and Paul Allen's apparent unwillingness to share the Rose Garden with a team he doesn't own puts the kibosh on that. It's a nice thought though.

So would I. Why the NHL hasn't had much of a desire (arena issues in Seattle and Paul Allen in Portland aside) to expand here aside from the potential Portland bid in the late 1990s is beyond me. Weren't the Seattle Metropolitans the first US team to win the Stanley Cup?

As for the next 5 NHL cities, I think that they'll be in this order:

1. Winnipeg--With TNSE more likely to bring the Jets back home than not, and with the Coyotes situations looking dimmer by the day, I'd be very surprised if the 'Yotes would still be in Arizona after next year at the very most.

2. Kansas City--With a newer arena (Sprint Center), I can see Hulsizer buying a struggling team and moving them there if he doesn't get the Coyotes.

3. Quebec City--A new arena looks to be going up in a few years (2015?) with some rumblings of a possible move to the old Colisee while the new building is built.

4. Hamilton--I don't think that the NHL can either hold off on this market forever.

5. Houston--There's an arena and a history of hockey here; while Les Alexander (who owns the NBA Rockets) isn't terribly concerned with getting a team, I feel as though a team could be calling Houston within 10 years by way of another ownership group.

Other sites that could pop up in about 10 years if one of the 5 above doesn't work (given enough time for new arenas, ownership groups, etc. to get going):

--Portland

--Seattle

--Salt Lake

--Las Vegas

--Norfolk

As for the Thrashers, I still think that things can work there, provided that there's a good ownership there (i.e., if Tom Glavine and his posse--whoever they may be--get the money to buy the team).

As far as 1, 3 and 4 above, the NHL likely has some serious reservations about Canadian franchises simply because of what things were like when the Canadian dollar was weak. One of those three will get a team and the others will wait for the NHL to see that it's working.

Canada isn't some third world nation that struggles to stay solvent. The weak Canadian dollar was brought on by the political turmoil that plagued the country from the 70s to the mid 90s in the form of the Quebec separatist movement and the constitutional crisis that came with it. Turns out that the country seemingly breaking apart screws with your currency. Two referendums later and it seems like the worst of the separatist crisis has passed. I wouldn't expect the Canadian dollar to nosedive any time soon. Heck, it's nearly on par with the American dollar these days. It even surpasses it from time to time.

For the five you list below, I think PDX and Seattle would be great, but I think it's more likely that one (probably Portland right now because they have an NHL-type arena) would happen. Not both. I live in the Northwest (Montana) and go to Seattle and Portland often. I have tons of friends in both. The ones in Seattle are like spurned lovers who want nothing more than to get their Sonics back. They could care less about an NHL team.

The NHL, however, seems to want to get into Seattle more then they want to get into Portland. The Rose Garden has been there for some time, and Portland always gets passed over. Once Seattle gets a new NHL calibre arena up the NHL will make a move. They want into Seattle, not Portland. Who knows? If the NHL can get into Seattle before the NBA can return they may woo some of those would-be Sonics fans away while the NBA twiddles its thumbs.

Salt Lake sounds like a good idea, but it's doubtful. It's about as likely as Spokane.

I don't know. Salt Lake has proven it can be a major league town, with how well they support the Jazz. The problem, of course, is that the NBA and NHL are more or less in direct competition with each other.

I'm sure every sports league has concerns about Vegas. It looks like a market to expand to,

In 2002 maybe. These days Vegas is pretty much screwed, financially speaking. Turns out recessions wreck havoc on the recreational gambling industry.

I confess to not knowing enough about Norfolk to make a case either way.

The Hurricanes have carved out a nice niche for themselves in the area, but I think a second team would be to much.

Two you left out: Oklahoma City and Milwaukee.

Those aren't happening for the same reason Salt Lake City isn't happening. The NBA.

[webdav]

Canada isn't some third world nation that struggles to stay solvent. The weak Canadian dollar was brought on by the political turmoil that plagued the country from the 70s to the mid 90s in the form of the Quebec separatist movement and the constitutional crisis that came with it. Turns out that the country seemingly breaking apart screws with your currency. Two referendums later and it seems like the worst of the separatist crisis has passed. I wouldn't expect the Canadian dollar to nosedive any time soon. Heck, it's nearly on par with the American dollar these days. It even surpasses it from time to time.

I meant no slight to the nation of Canada. I love my neighbors and friends to the north.

The NHL, however, seems to want to get into Seattle more then they want to get into Portland. The Rose Garden has been there for some time, and Portland always gets passed over. Once Seattle gets a new NHL calibre arena up the NHL will make a move. They want into Seattle, not Portland. Who knows? If the NHL can get into Seattle before the NBA can return they may woo some of those would-be Sonics fans away while the NBA twiddles its thumbs.

I've heard concerns with Seattle and how close it is to Vancouver, but I don't think that there are a huge amount of Canuck fans in Seattle. But Portland would have to compete with the Trailblazers, so there's that. Not sure it's a big enough market for two winter pro teams.

Like i said, it'd be one or the other. I'd love it either way, but I'd rather it be Portland because I have more excuses to visit there.

I don't know. Salt Lake has proven it can be a major league town, with how well they support the Jazz. The problem, of course, is that the NBA and NHL are more or less in direct competition with each other.

They do love their Jazz, but like you've said, with an NBA team in town, it gets less likely.

In 2002 maybe. These days Vegas is pretty much screwed, financially speaking. Turns out recessions wreck havoc on the recreational gambling industry.

"Vegas" is still synonymous with "gambling" which is territory major sports fear to tread on. Obviously, baseball would be the most sensitive to it, but all the leagues are cautious about associating (even peripherally) with gambling.

Two you left out: Oklahoma City and Milwaukee.

Those aren't happening for the same reason Salt Lake City isn't happening. The NBA.

I honestly forget that either of those cities have NBA teams sometimes. But then I don't follow basketball at all anymore. I haven't since the days of Magic & Bird.

[the admiral]

The NHL routinely hands teams to eventual felons. Getting cozy with sports bookies would improve the league's image.

[MadmanLA]

In Salt Lake City, you're going to face the same problem as is in Seattle (and Phoenix before that with US Airways Center)...a seating configuration that's ill-suited for hockey (i.e. taking out a chunk of lower-bowl seats to fit in a regulation-sized hockey rink). I do know that they have a suburban arena that hosts hockey, but its seating capacity is probably too small for what the NHL wants.

[ninersdd]

In Salt Lake City, you're going to face the same problem as is in Seattle (and Phoenix before that with US Airways Center)...a seating configuration that's ill-suited for hockey (i.e. taking out a chunk of lower-bowl seats to fit in a regulation-sized hockey rink). I do know that they have a suburban arena that hosts hockey, but its seating capacity is probably too small for what the NHL wants.

Didn't they house the figure skating there in '02 and the seating was clearly way off?

[no97]

In Salt Lake City, you're going to face the same problem as is in Seattle (and Phoenix before that with US Airways Center)...a seating configuration that's ill-suited for hockey (i.e. taking out a chunk of lower-bowl seats to fit in a regulation-sized hockey rink). I do know that they have a suburban arena that hosts hockey, but its seating capacity is probably too small for what the NHL wants.

Didn't they house the figure skating there in '02 and the seating was clearly way off?

Neither SLC Olympic rink is even close to NHL-ready:

E-Center - 10,100

Peaks Ice Arena - 8,400 with temporary seating, normally it's a 2,300 seat rink

[ninersdd]

In Salt Lake City, you're going to face the same problem as is in Seattle (and Phoenix before that with US Airways Center)...a seating configuration that's ill-suited for hockey (i.e. taking out a chunk of lower-bowl seats to fit in a regulation-sized hockey rink). I do know that they have a suburban arena that hosts hockey, but its seating capacity is probably too small for what the NHL wants.

Didn't they house the figure skating there in '02 and the seating was clearly way off?

Neither SLC Olympic rink is even close to NHL-ready:

E-Center - 10,100

Peaks Ice Arena - 8,400 with temporary seating, normally it's a 2,300 seat rink

I was refering to the Delta Center where the Jazz play.

[DustDevil61]

In Salt Lake City, you're going to face the same problem as is in Seattle (and Phoenix before that with US Airways Center)...a seating configuration that's ill-suited for hockey (i.e. taking out a chunk of lower-bowl seats to fit in a regulation-sized hockey rink). I do know that they have a suburban arena that hosts hockey, but its seating capacity is probably too small for what the NHL wants.

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Arena-wise, I think that's one of the 3 main things holding Salt Lake back from getting an NHL team (the other two being an ownership group and going head-to-head with the Jazz).

I could see the Building Formerly Known as the Delta Center (EnergySolutions Arena, hockey capacity 14,000) being a temporary home to a relocating NHL team, while the Maverik Center (formerly the E Center, hockey capacity 10,100) in West Valley City could be expanded by about 6-7 K. It would be a 2-3 year layover at the ESA, but I think that it could work. The Mav is only about 10 years old, and their main tenant is currently the ECHL Utah Grizzlies.

On the left-hand side of this article (under "Home-Court Advantage") focusing on the Utah Jazz management, who own the Jazz and the ESA, suggested that the building could have some expansion and additions before its time is up, so there is a slight chance that hockey could have a future in the building. I wasn't even aware that you could fit 17,000+ into the ESA for hockey!

However, at this time, I don't think that the Millers have been too keen on hockey, and Greg Miller, who is the effective owner, feels that Salt Lake wouldn't be able to support another major pro franchise at this time. Of course, Utah might be in a waiting mode for the next major team, whatever it might be; I'm not holding my breath right now. I'll be happy if AAA-level hockey returns to Western North America and the growth of hockey continues (and, yes, it is, though on a more school-based level).

When I made the list of Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake, Norfolk, and Las Vegas, I meant that these cities could host an NHL team 10 years down the line, when/if:

--There are plans to put an NHL-standard building there (Seattle, Las Vegas, Salt Lake, Norfolk (?))

--A committed ownership (All, mainly Portland)

--Growth has made the area viable (Salt Lake, Portland)

--The economy has recovered (Las Vegas)

Right now and under current conditions, I think only Portland has the population and the building to legitimately house an NHL team right now. I wouldn't suggest putting a team in Las Vegas (in any sport) until the economy recovers, Seattle doesn't have an arena, Salt Lake doesn't have an acceptable full-time building and isn't quite big enough, and I don't know a whole lot about Norfolk.

The five places I numbered (Winnipeg, Kansas City, Quebec City, Hamilton, and Houston), I feel, could be ready to go right away, as all have (or in Quebec's case, plan to have) an NHL-ready arena and are only needing owners or approval from the NHL to place a team there.

[ThePonderer]

--There are plans to put an NHL-standard building there (Seattle, Las Vegas, Salt Lake, Norfolk (?))

Rvrdgsfn shared this with me earlier. http://arenadigest.com/201104263227/future-arenas/articles/new-22000-seat-arena-pitched-for-hampton-roads

There has been talks for almost 2 decades about bringing the NHL to the Old Dominion. I'm hoping that day is coming soon.

[rvrdgsfn]

--There are plans to put an NHL-standard building there (Seattle, Las Vegas, Salt Lake, Norfolk (?))

Rvrdgsfn shared this with me earlier. http://arenadigest.com/201104263227/future-arenas/articles/new-22000-seat-arena-pitched-for-hampton-roads

There has been talks for almost 2 decades about bringing the NHL to the Old Dominion. I'm hoping that day is coming soon.

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/va_beach/va-beach-rejects-arena-proposal

The city council basically shot it down and the group plans now for Norfolk or Chesapeake

[ThePonderer]

--There are plans to put an NHL-standard building there (Seattle, Las Vegas, Salt Lake, Norfolk (?))

Rvrdgsfn shared this with me earlier. http://arenadigest.com/201104263227/future-arenas/articles/new-22000-seat-arena-pitched-for-hampton-roads

There has been talks for almost 2 decades about bringing the NHL to the Old Dominion. I'm hoping that day is coming soon.

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/va_beach/va-beach-rejects-arena-proposal

The city council basically shot it down and the group plans now for Norfolk or Chesapeake

Honestly, that's where they should have been trying to put the thing in the first place. After reading through the proposal a bit it really wasn't a great deal. City council would have had to pay for most if not all the debt for the arena and it would have been located close to the beach front. Not the best idea when you take into consideration the cluster:censored: of traffic already in the downtown area. I'd say the best place to put the arena is outside of Norfolk near the suburbs. Kind of where the Hampton Coliseum is. It's only within 5 minutes of Norfolk and about 10 minutes from the beach. It also saves people from Williamsburg and Richmond a few extra minutes of traffic time to attend games. Oh well, I'm not discouraged. At least the proposals for arenas in both Richmond and Norfolk are flowing! For the longest time I worried we were going to fall into a sports pit of fire. But, it looks like we're resurging. I have hope for the NHL in Virginia one day.