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BYU tells Jimmer to complete courses online


Milo Meningocele

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Yes, there are two sides to every story. But that doesn't make the allegations any less plausible.

Again, do you think BYU's math adds up? Especially in light of the Church's overtly racist history (and let's not kid ourselves about that)?

As it stands and how it's presented in the article, then no, BYU's math doesn't add up.

However, there are plenty of other factors that cause those numbers. If you're from somewhere like Houston and decide to go to BYU and play in Provo, Utah, and you're not familiar with the white-bread Utah culture, let alone the high standards, yet the recruiters only mention the honor code needed to play there but once, would you remember it?

It seems many of these players came in under a coach who didn't emphasize the honor code in order to get them. Had the recruiters mentioned this to the recruits, we probably wouldn't have half of these suspensions. If I wanted to live a typical college life (drinking, sleeping around, etc.) and was aware of BYU's honor code, then I would look elsewhere for my schooling. I don't think that Gary Crowton and those that worked under him emphasized the honor code. The three former Cougars talked to in the article were all on the football team when he was there.

And yea, I say this knowing that there has been racism within the Church's past and that there is too much among its members today. However, steps have been made to fix this very issue. Even Darron Smith, who co-wrote the article, is LDS and is doing what he feels needs to be done to mend the issue, and I applaud him for his intentions. However, the Church has always been one of revelation--in other words, the leaders (General Authorities) themselves won't do anything major unless they feel that it's God's will--it's not up to one man, or even a bunch of men to decide, it's ultimately God's decision.

In short, there could be some level of racism among certain BYU students and athletes, but I just don't buy the idea that those that are in charge of the school itself are at fault here. Maybe someone somewhere on the honor roll, possibly, but not everyone running the school thinks the same way.

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I remember an article about Greg Oden in Sports Illustrated back when he was still at Ohio State. He said that he got recognized whhen he was out and about on campus (he does kinda stand out, at 7 feet tall and looking like he's 40 years old) and that he "got so many Facebook friend requests that it flashed infinity" , but it didn't say anything about him getting mobbed in class or being forced to take hs courses online.

Just a random about Jimmer, has he done his mission yet?

No. It's a big debate though amongst BYU fans who are also Bishops and Ward leadership that may or not may not live in Provo. Half think he should, others think it's a personal family decision and some figure his impact in the NBA would be worth him serving "in a different manner" by just living that LDS lifestyle in the mainstream.

That said, I think the story is overblown, that he's opted to take classes away from school because he's prepping for the draft like a lot of athletes do and it's just easier this way. But even with that, I could see the issue with people bugging him on campus because he's a hot commodity and I suspect it induces a lot of umm...interesting suitors.

But the whole thing is a joke in light of the Davies discussion a month ago.

Yes, there are two sides to every story. But that doesn't make the allegations any less plausible.

Again, do you think BYU's math adds up? Especially in light of the Church's overtly racist history (and let's not kid ourselves about that)?

As it stands and how it's presented in the article, then no, BYU's math doesn't add up.

However, there are plenty of other factors that cause those numbers. If you're from somewhere like Houston and decide to go to BYU and play in Provo, Utah, and you're not familiar with the white-bread Utah culture, let alone the high standards, yet the recruiters only mention the honor code needed to play there but once, would you remember it?

It seems many of these players came in under a coach who didn't emphasize the honor code in order to get them. Had the recruiters mentioned this to the recruits, we probably wouldn't have half of these suspensions. If I wanted to live a typical college life (drinking, sleeping around, etc.) and was aware of BYU's honor code, then I would look elsewhere for my schooling. I don't think that Gary Crowton and those that worked under him emphasized the honor code. The three former Cougars talked to in the article were all on the football team when he was there.

And yea, I say this knowing that there has been racism within the Church's past and that there is too much among its members today. However, steps have been made to fix this very issue. Even Darron Smith, who co-wrote the article, is LDS and is doing what he feels needs to be done to mend the issue, and I applaud him for his intentions. However, the Church has always been one of revelation--in other words, the leaders (General Authorities) themselves won't do anything major unless they feel that it's God's will--it's not up to one man, or even a bunch of men to decide, it's ultimately God's decision.

In short, there could be some level of racism among certain BYU students and athletes, but I just don't buy the idea that those that are in charge of the school itself are at fault here. Maybe someone somewhere on the honor roll, possibly, but not everyone running the school thinks the same way.

I think the racism charges leveled at the LDS church are no worse than any other christian denomination. I think a lot of this is borne out of ignorance, but I read that article and it made me uncomfortable because I don't really understand WTF these guys thought they were getting themselves into when they went to Provo. I mean, even if they had wild times and parties and stuff, the bottom line is...how could you get into that and not realize what's expected of you at an LDS institution where you're the extreme minority?

It just annoyed me. Yes, BYU clearly could use a strong heaping of some cultural awareness to help deal with situations and realize the fallout when they make decisions like overwhelming honor code violations towards non-LDS athletes or just establishing a defacto policy that educates non-LDS students in general about things more readily even if it means doing so in the athletic department just for non-LDS student-athletes. Providing student mentors or other things to make them feel more comfortable. I dunno.

I just think the whole thing is sort of a joke on both sides, but...I don't think I'd absolve the institution of culpability because the buck stops there and when we've got a kid who is being vilified in the national media because of doing something completely legal only because he's a student athlete, I think it's a huge problem that the school should've done more to protect his privacy.

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Well, his name is Jimmer. Mormons come up with some goofy-ass names.

EDIT: and yeah, he is a Mormon.

I think the racism charges leveled at the LDS church are no worse than any other christian denomination.

Yes they are. I don't know of mainline Protestant denominations that, just some 35 years ago, taught that black people were second-class humans because their skin bore some ancestral curse and thus couldn't be full members of the faith.

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Yes, there are two sides to every story. But that doesn't make the allegations any less plausible.

Again, do you think BYU's math adds up? Especially in light of the Church's overtly racist history (and let's not kid ourselves about that)?

What do you know about BYU or the church besides what someone else has told you or what the media has told you? Instead of making inflammatory statements towards a group of people, maybe you should try and get to know them and understand them and their side. What's different between you ripping on a group of people and their beliefs and someone being a racist? Nothing. Because you don't know anything about them and you refuse to get to know them and try and understand them.

Nonsense. When you have to attack a poster, instead of his arguments, you've lost.

I'm not ripping on a group of people. I'm "ripping" on an institution that has been openly and virulently racist. There's a distinction, and it's not even a particularly subtle one.

It's not that long ago that the LDS Church was teaching "a flat nose and black skin" was the mark of Cain. Apologists like to say that such attitudes have been consigned to the dustbin of history, as the saying goes. But that was a few short decades ago, well within the lifetime of many of the Church's leaders.

And here's where trying to change the subject and make it about me fails. I have LDS family members, who I dearly love. I have friends who are members of the church. I admire many of them. But that doesnt alter reality in the slightest - the LDS church has a shameful history where it comes to African-Americans, a history which has only recently been disavowed at all, and a history which naturally colors its relations with many ethnic minorities today.

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Nonsense. When you have to attack a poster, instead of his arguments, you've lost.

I'm not ripping on a group of people. I'm "ripping" on an institution that has been openly and virulently racist. There's a distinction, and it's not even a particularly subtle one.

It's not that long ago that the LDS Church was teaching "a flat nose and black skin" was the mark of Cain. Apologists like to say that such attitudes have been consigned to the dustbin of history, as the saying goes. But that was a few short decades ago, well within the lifetime of many of the Church's leaders.

And here's where trying to change the subject and make it about me fails. I have LDS family members, who I dearly love. I have friends who are members of the church. I admire many of them. But that doesnt alter reality in the slightest - the LDS church has a shameful history where it comes to African-Americans, a history which has only recently been disavowed at all, and that history naturally colors its relations with many ethnic minorities today.

Have you ever taken a step back and realized that the church is just a microcosm of this country. For all the people who claim that BYU or the church is racist, how many of them level racist comments toward Hispanics or some other group of people. You can't sit there and tell me that this country hasn't been racist even today. Holy cow, did you hear the racist things said about our President when he was running for office and probably even today. You can't throw all members of the church under the bus because of a group of ignorant ones.

Part of the issue as far as the black athletes getting kicked out is a two fold issue here. One, are they members and if not, do they fully understand the honor code? That is part of the problem. The honor code is just a contract that you agree to, whether you like it or not or even feel you can obey it or not. I know a lot of members who wouldn't go to BYU because of the honor code and it's strictness and yet are upstanding and moral people and are just plain great people. The fact of the matter what makes BYU look racist, is that these are athletes and we've hyped up athletes and need to know everything about athletes that when an athlete makes a mistake, the media reports it. Now if the majority of blacks who go to BYU are athletes, and some of them don't understand the honor code and violate it, then it's going to get reported. Yet, Johnny Joe who is white and screws up and is just a history major and gets kicked out, no one hears about. And Tammy Tom who is black and is a art major screws up and no one hears about her. Why not? Because they aren't athletes. The church has a policy and I think it's throughout all churches that what you confide in the Bishop/Priest is between you and him. The issue becomes when this is an athlete, the media has to know and so it gets reported. I'm not saying BYU or the church is perfect, but remember that you're looking at a group of people (athletes) who have a larger group of blacks within the group (basketball and football) so that when one of them screws up it looks like the church or BYU has something against them. As opposed to finding out the amount of students kicked out due to violations from the entire student body. Are you going to get the amount of students kicked out due to violations? No. Nor should you. It's a private matter. I think we've gotten into a society where we must know everything about everyone, and we can't let people learn to be human and learn from their mistakes.

 

 

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Funny you mention that, since BYU isn't letting students learn from theirs.

One of the athletes mentioned was disciplined under the honor code for having a child out of wedlock before he signed the honor code. Not only is that not letting him learn from past mistakes, that's continuing to punish him for them well after the fact. Would that they took your advice.

And no, the LDS Church does not have a monopoly on institutional racism. Doesn't excuse its particularly nasty strain, though.

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That's not necessarily true. Their leaking of several teams' financial documents was a watershed moment, and they've had plenty of other non-TMZ-esque big stories.

And then Will Leitch left.

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This whole discussion has exhausted me mentally, and this should be the last thing I say on the subject.

As a practicing member myself, I can tell you that the Church's doctrine has always taught that:

(1) All people are the children of God

(2) The Church's leaders have never been taught as being infallible (though they've often been viewed as such for different reasons, from members within and critics outside of the Church), and that they represent their given time. Their opinions reflect the time in which they live and the circumstances in which they live.

The doctrine of withholding Priesthood privileges to blacks (at the root of what we're talking about), in the minds of the LDS, stems from the teaching that in Old Testament times, only a select few were allowed to hold it. Not everyone that was of the house of Israel could hold the Priesthood; only the Levites could by direct lineage. Gradually, as time went on, these privileges were extended to all people. I don't believe any of this inferior race doctrine because I just don't see it as being widely taught to members even back then.

My opinion regarding the formal withholding of full Church membership to blacks from the 1850s to 1978 is that people in general, mainly whites, be they in the Church or not, weren't ready for the desegregation of blacks into society. Think of what the general consensus of blacks were when the practice started in the 1850s. Then think a decade later--the Civil War broke out over the basic rights of blacks. It took over a century after the Civil War for the complete desegregation of American society to occur. I'm not sure what to tell anyone why it took until 1978 for this withholding to be lifted except that the Church leadership believed that it was God's will to end the restriction. While it's true that full membership was withheld to blacks, I don't ever recall hearing of the formal segregation of congregations, which can't be said for numerous congregations of the 1800s/early 1900s. I just don't think it was a case of a General Authority holding a grudge against blacks, and I just don't think that those in charge of the Church today had any ill feelings towards blacks back then.

That's mainly just my opinion, however. I'm going home to clear my mind and catch some Z's. (sleepz)

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My main issue with BYU is regarding making Jimmer finish his classes online. They openly welcome all the publicity the school is getting from the team and mostly from his play/abilities but make him sit at home because the school/students can't handle the star power?

As a higher education professional I find it terrible that a school would force a student to alter their academic plan based on the schools wishes and not those of the student. If they can monitor and enforce rules on drinking and sex then they can tell star struck students to pipe down, return to their seats, stop disrupting class, and leave Jimmer alone until after class. Amazing that they have a plan/course of action for dealing with those that violate the school's honor code but when a star athlete attracts large groups of fans, the best idea they have is to send Jimmer home. Laughable...

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That's not necessarily true. Their leaking of several teams' financial documents was a watershed moment, and they've had plenty of other non-TMZ-esque big stories.

And then Will Leitch left.

Actually, the document release, along with quite a few other excellent long-form pieces, have come out on Deadspin since Leitch's departure. Yes, there's plenty of page-hit-generating trash to fill in, too.

My main impression of Will Leitch is that he sure does love him some Will Leitch, but throws in the occasional aw-shucksy-I'm-just-a-doof-from-Mattoon line to provide a thin cover over how much he thinks of himself. Came across as a bit of a prick in his writing at the DI, to be honest.

I think his "Roger Ebert is a fat piece of :censored: " piece is perhaps the most accurate reflection of the real Will Leitch in print.

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