"Washington Federals" (Now Redskins name discussion)

[JohnnySeoul]

How on Earth can you NOT think the Wahoo logo or the term Redskins is offensive???

^ Wow....I guess these must be offensive too since they are over-exaggerations of white people:

When does it stop then? Enough already!! There is nothing wrong with Chief Wahoo.

[JohnnySeoul]

What about the nose shape and Native American feather? The red skin color?

^ Talk about stereotyping! So to you an American Indian is somebody with a big nose, a feather in their hair, and red skin....hmmmm, I guess the issue isn't the logo, but possibly your own personal view.

[JohnnySeoul]

Holy this is an awful thread WHY DID I CLICK ON THIS THREAD.

It's like DC IN DA HOUSE, JohnnySeoul, Buster, and DeFrank are all trying to out-buffoon each other. Jesus Christ.

Name calling is so adorable.

[Lights Out]

What about the nose shape and Native American feather? The red skin color?

^ Talk about stereotyping! So to you an American Indian is somebody with a big nose, a feather in their hair, and red skin....hmmmm, I guess the issue isn't the logo, but possibly your own personal view.

You're kidding, right? Milo was explaining why it's considered offensive by listing the stereotypes of the era that are depicted in the logo. He's not a racist for doing that - otherwise, historians would be a bunch of racists too.

By the way, the smiley at the end doesn't make up for how you're pissing everyone off by insisting on using the race card when it doesn't make any logical sense to do so.

Also - the Edit button: use it.

[IceCap]

How on Earth can you NOT think the Wahoo logo or the term Redskins is offensive???

^ Wow....I guess these must be offensive too since they are over-exaggerations of white people:

When does it stop then? Enough already!! There is nothing wrong with Chief Wahoo.

Exaggerated depictions of white people? Yes. Offensive? Not really.

Chief Wahoo is both an exaggerated depiction of a Native and is offensive.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Why does no one say the Notre Dame Fighting Irish logo is offensive? All Irishmen are angry drunken fighters?

And wasn't taking the Indians' land by force and killing most of them much worse than having a team name or logo be offensive to them? Mayyybeee there are bigger issues to current Native Americans than a logo on the ballcap of a team in Cleveland, Oh and the name of a football team in Landover, MD/Ashburn, VA

[IceCap]

Why does no one say the Notre Dame Fighting Irish logo is offensive? All Irishmen are angry drunken fighters?

That has nothing to do with the Indians discussion. Saying "well that other logo's just as bad!" doesn't remove the fault from your team's logo.

And wasn't taking the Indians' land by force and killing most of them much worse than having a team name or logo be offensive to them? Mayyybeee there are bigger issues to current Native Americans than a logo on the ballcap of a team in Cleveland, Oh and the name of a football team in Landover, MD/Ashburn, VA

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

[evanaho]

Why does no one say the Notre Dame Fighting Irish logo is offensive? All Irishmen are angry drunken fighters?

It has to do with ownership of the name as well. Notre Dame is a Catholic school and I would be willing to wager there were more than a few Irish-Catholics among the founders of the institution. The choice to use a leprechaun as a team symbol was made by people who have ownership in that culture.

Part of the reason I find Redskins (and Indians, for that matter) to be in poor taste is because the names were chosen by people outside of the cultural group they name as a mascot. There has never been an opportunity for Native Americans to weigh in on the names, nor will there be because they have been in use for so long. FSU at least received a blessing from the Seminole Tribe to legitimize the claim.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

That has nothing to do with the Indians discussion. Saying "well that other logo's just as bad!" doesn't remove the fault from your team's logo.

Uh yeah it does. Is this not a discussion about offensive logos/names? I didn't say it didn't remove the fault from the team's name, I'm just saying that everyone is conveniently able to look the other way on that offensive name/logo. I wanna hear some points about why the Irish should be allowed to keep their name but the Redskins/Indians shouldn't.

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

And yeah I'm sorry but when I see the Redskins logo I'm not reminded of those atrocities. I think "oh wow, that's a really noble, stern, and powerful looking man. I have much respect for those people." The Indians logo, they're basically phasing it out. What more do you want?

[IceCap]

That has nothing to do with the Indians discussion. Saying "well that other logo's just as bad!" doesn't remove the fault from your team's logo.

Uh yeah it does. Is this not a discussion about offensive logos/names? I didn't say it didn't remove the fault from the team's name, I'm just saying that everyone is conveniently able to look the other way on that offensive name/logo. I wanna hear some points about why the Irish should be allowed to keep their name but the Redskins/Indians shouldn't.

Any discussion that has to do with comparing the Indians/Redskins to the Fighting Irish is separate from the discussions particularly about the Indians and Redskins. If you REALLY want to know why people are ok with Notre Dame's name and logo, just look at evanaho's post.

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

And yeah I'm sorry but when I see the Redskins logo I'm not reminded of those atrocities.

I knew some States had slipping educational standards, but wow. I had no idea it had gotten this bad.

I think "oh wow, that's a really noble, stern, and powerful looking man. I have much respect for those people."

The Redskins' logo is indeed a respectful depiction of a Native. The logo isn't the problem. It's the name. Change the name to Warriors or Potomacs and you have a fine identity package.

The Indians logo, they're basically phasing it out. What more do you want?

What more do I want? Chief Wahoo gone completely.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Why does no one say the Notre Dame Fighting Irish logo is offensive? All Irishmen are angry drunken fighters?

It has to do with ownership of the name as well. Notre Dame is a Catholic school and I would be willing to wager there were more than a few Irish-Catholics among the founders of the institution. The choice to use a leprechaun as a team symbol was made by people who have ownership in that culture.

Part of the reason I find Redskins (and Indians, for that matter) to be in poor taste is because the names were chosen by people outside of the cultural group they name as a mascot. There has never been an opportunity for Native Americans to weigh in on the names, nor will there be because they have been in use for so long. FSU at least received a blessing from the Seminole Tribe to legitimize the claim.

Everyone conveniently managed to look past this bit of info Seoul provided...

Here's a good article concerning Native Americans and their thoughts on the team name Redskins: "Most Indians Say Name of Washington 'Redskins' Is Acceptable While 9% Call It Offensive"

[IceCap]

Like you said, the native population has a lot of problems they're trying to deal with at the moment. I doubt a sports team's name is high on their priority list, nor should it be.

Doesn't change the fact that the team's name is a racial slur. It's not different then a team naming itself the "N*ggers."

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

And yeah I'm sorry but when I see the Redskins logo I'm not reminded of those atrocities.

I knew some States had slipping educational standards, but wow. I had no idea it had gotten this bad.

Oh yeah, good point. Because when I see my favorite team's name and logo and don't think "Oh wow we massacred all of them, we better change this name so they don't get even sadder!" every time I'm dumb as bricks.

You don't even know where I am from. You're being a little hypocritical with your preaching of less ignorance there buddy.

[Lights Out]

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

And yeah I'm sorry but when I see the Redskins logo I'm not reminded of those atrocities.

I knew some States had slipping educational standards, but wow. I had no idea it had gotten this bad.

I think that's going a bit overboard, Ice_Cap.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Like you said, the native population has a lot of problems they're trying to deal with at the moment. I doubt a sports team's name is high on their priority list, nor should it be.

Doesn't change the fact that the team's name is a racial slur. It's not different then a team naming itself the "N*ggers."

It's not like naming a team N*ggers AT ALL. AT ALL. It'd be like naming a team the Blackskins. Offensive? Yeah. Unspeakably offensive and anywhere close to as offensive as the word N*ggers would be? No where near.

[IceCap]

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

And yeah I'm sorry but when I see the Redskins logo I'm not reminded of those atrocities.

I knew some States had slipping educational standards, but wow. I had no idea it had gotten this bad.

Oh yeah, good point. Because when I see my favorite team's name and logo and don't think "Oh wow we massacred all of them, we better change this name so they don't get even sadder!" every time I'm dumb as bricks.

You don't even know where I am from. You're being a little hypocritical with your preaching of less ignorance there buddy.

The smart money is on DC, or the surrounding areas in either Virginia or Maryland.

And for the record, it was a joke.

Though you would have to be a fan so rabid as to blind your common sense if the name "Redskins" doesn't at least bring to mind the prejudices and injustices inflicted upon Natives. The name itself is a slur.

Again, how is it any different then naming a team the "N*ggers," "Kikes," or "Chinks"?

It's not like naming a team N*ggers AT ALL. AT ALL.

Yes, it is. Both are racial slurs used for centuries to degrade ethnic minorities. Explain how they're different.

It'd be like naming a team the Blackskins. Offensive? Yeah. Unspeakably offensive and anywhere close to as offensive as the word N*ggers would be? No where near.

This is almost to easy. Even within the realm of your backwards logic you admit the name "Redskins" is offensive.

[Lights Out]

It's not like naming a team N*ggers AT ALL. AT ALL. It'd be like naming a team the Blackskins. Offensive? Yeah. Unspeakably offensive and anywhere close to as offensive as the word N*ggers would be? No where near.

Your analogy doesn't really hold water. "Blackskin" wasn't a common racial slur used towards blacks. "Redskin" was a common racial slur used towards Indians. Therefore, Ice_Cap's comparison actually makes more sense.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

And yeah I'm sorry but when I see the Redskins logo I'm not reminded of those atrocities.

I knew some States had slipping educational standards, but wow. I had no idea it had gotten this bad.

Oh yeah, good point. Because when I see my favorite team's name and logo and don't think "Oh wow we massacred all of them, we better change this name so they don't get even sadder!" every time I'm dumb as bricks.

You don't even know where I am from. You're being a little hypocritical with your preaching of less ignorance there buddy.

The smart money is on DC, or the surrounding areas in either Virginia or Maryland.

And for the record, it was a joke.

Though you would have to be a fan so rabid as to blind your common sense if the name "Redskins" doesn't at least bring to mind the prejudices and injustices inflicted upon Natives. The name itself is a slur.

Again, how is it any different then naming a team the "N*ggers," "Kikes," or "Chinks"?

Yeah it's a joke now, just because I called you out on it.

And was Redskin a slur to Native Americans BEFORE the football team? (I'm really asking here, not trying to be a smartass. I honestly don't know I'm just wondering) ... Or did people (white people for the most part) decide it was offensive for them because they are trying to get past guilty thoughts of things their past past relatives did? I'm leaning towards the latter.

The terms you just listed have always been considered terribly offensive. Specifically the n-word.

[Lights Out]

The term "redskin" dates back to the 17th century. The team was started in 1932. Pretty sure it was a slur before the football team existed.

[IceCap]

Yeah, the land grab was a pretty s*itty thing to do. So don't you think the classy thing for a professional sports organization to do would be to NOT constantly remind everyone of those atrocities by using racist phrases and images associated with those atrocities as part of their team identities?

And yeah I'm sorry but when I see the Redskins logo I'm not reminded of those atrocities.

I knew some States had slipping educational standards, but wow. I had no idea it had gotten this bad.

Oh yeah, good point. Because when I see my favorite team's name and logo and don't think "Oh wow we massacred all of them, we better change this name so they don't get even sadder!" every time I'm dumb as bricks.

You don't even know where I am from. You're being a little hypocritical with your preaching of less ignorance there buddy.

The smart money is on DC, or the surrounding areas in either Virginia or Maryland.

And for the record, it was a joke.

Though you would have to be a fan so rabid as to blind your common sense if the name "Redskins" doesn't at least bring to mind the prejudices and injustices inflicted upon Natives. The name itself is a slur.

Again, how is it any different then naming a team the "N*ggers," "Kikes," or "Chinks"?

Yeah it's a joke now, just because I called you out on it.

Not really sparky.

Your rabid team loyalty blinding you to a really offensive team name made for a great "you really should read more" joke.

Also, protip. I wouldn't play the "you don't even know where I'm from" card given your avatar, signature, and user name.

And was Redskin a slur to Native Americans BEFORE the football team? (I'm really asking here, not trying to be a smartass. I honestly don't know I'm just wondering) ... Or did people (white people for the most part) decide it was offensive for them because they are trying to get past guilty thoughts of things their past past relatives did? I'm leaning towards the latter.

The terms you just listed have always been considered terribly offensive. Specifically the n-word.

Like "n*gger," "kike," and "chink" the term "redskin" has been a derogatory term directed towards an ethnic minority (natives in this case) for centuries. Well before the football team took the name. Heck, the owner who changed the name from "Braves" to "Redskins" was a pretty open racist.