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Why is it so hard to get input?


OchentaYOcho88

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I understand there has been some issues with newer members in the Concept forum, but I want to know why it's so hard to get input on my work while others' are seeing multiple posts on their work that is clearly done without much thought. I know I'm new, and not a pro. But, the only way I feel I can get better is to hear from people who are good at what they do.

I take my time on my work, I put thought into it before I even fire up Photoshop and I am just a bit frustrated. I hope I'm not out of line posting this I'd just like to understand what I'm doing wrong.

Thank you,

~OYO

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Yeah not getting replies on your concepts is pretty much a good thing. Sad to see that the concept forum has gotten to this point but really just a few people (we all know who) have really ruined it. Bottom line: you'd rather be getting little replies on your concepts that are good than getting a lot of replies trashing your concept.

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You want the truth? Your concepts are good. That's why you're not getting much feedback.

This.

In my time here, I've noticed the better the concept the less the feedback. Don't take it personally, people opt to comment more when there is more to fix.

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when lookig through the concepts ill ignore the very bad and very good. i feel theres nothing i can really add to either to help them. the ones that are good and i like a lot, i sometimes will reply with "well done". when i do reply its often on something that is well put together or has some good thought put into it but needs some slight changes. i would guess thats how most people feel as well.

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You want the truth? Your concepts are good. That's why you're not getting much feedback.

This.

In my time here, I've noticed the better the concept the less the feedback. Don't take it personally, people opt to comment more when there is more to fix.

Go back and reed some of the old concept threads started by nitroseed, buc, ICS, even a few of AAO's. etc. Excellent work that garnered a lot of replies. It's a shame that most of the great concepteers stopped posting here for various reasons, and the clowns have really made it a difficult place to enjoy. I'd say that a lack of feedback is not necessarily a sign of good work (I've never even seen your work so I can't say) but more a reflection of the members who tend to troll around there these days.

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Building a bit on what BBTV posted, the early contributors set an exceptionally high standard.

Other than being busy finishing up coursework, here is why I don't comment on concepts:

--Regardless of how the concept is produced, it must look like it was done with professional software. Since open source software is available, there isn't an excuse for sloppy lines and pixelation.

--Color swapping is just lazy. So is most striping change-ups. It isn't worth the effort to comment.

--If you post enough concepts and they start looking the same, it isn't worth a comment.

--Recreating an old uniform from a team's past is theft, not art or design.

Finally, what the early contributors brought that is sorely lacking is that they actually created new logos/identities. I personally appreciate taking chances with the 'untouchable' logos. There will always be someone who thinks their team is perfect or close enough. If you are posting concepts in the concepts forum for reasons other than improving your design skills, look for an atta-boy elsewhere.

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We really need to get a concept forum that's only for members who've join over a year ago and select invitees, and not visible to noobs.

I agree with this. It may cause more harm than good, but we may as well try it out. You could just submit like a concept or something, or just have mods select you to be able to post there, and it newer people really wanted to get into it, they'd have too actually take the time to think about a concept. I know it would take a lot of work to set-up, just an idea :grin:

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Building a bit on what BBTV posted, the early contributors set an exceptionally high standard.

Other than being busy finishing up coursework, here is why I don't comment on concepts:

--Regardless of how the concept is produced, it must look like it was done with professional software. Since open source software is available, there isn't an excuse for sloppy lines and pixelation.

--Color swapping is just lazy. So is most striping change-ups. It isn't worth the effort to comment.

--If you post enough concepts and they start looking the same, it isn't worth a comment.

--Recreating an old uniform from a team's past is theft, not art or design.

Finally, what the early contributors brought that is sorely lacking is that they actually created new logos/identities. I personally appreciate taking chances with the 'untouchable' logos. There will always be someone who thinks their team is perfect or close enough. If you are posting concepts in the concepts forum for reasons other than improving your design skills, look for an atta-boy elsewhere.

I also agree with this. I know i wasn't on here when those guys posted, but I'm always looking back at AAO's stuff, because he has so many actual logo rebrands and concepts, not just jerseys. Jerseys are fine and all, but it's way cooler to see them along with a new logo idea. I honestly think I'll click on a concept that says the team name, and see a jersey that looks exactly the same as 10 other concepts for that team. I also get that logo design is difficult, and not everyone can do it, but even if it isn't the best you can get some quality feedback to improve it.

Sorry for not multiquoting this, I was posting my other comment before Quantum's showed up.

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comment.

--Recreating an old uniform from a team's past is theft, not art or design.

Finally, what the early contributors brought that is sorely lacking is that they actually created new logos/identities. I personally appreciate taking chances with the 'untouchable' logos. There will always be someone who thinks their team is perfect or close enough. If you are posting concepts in the concepts forum for reasons other than improving your design skills, look for an atta-boy elsewhere.

That's not why I'm here, not that I'm think you're saying that. I want to hear input on my work because I want to get better and try and see what others see in my work. I'm no professional, I don't have illustrator or anything like that, nor do I think I have the skill to draw a logo to actually mock an original one up. But I do believe I have the skill and knowledge and motivation to learn to come up with sharp looking uniforms. I'm currently doing a NHL to baseball series that is just so I can play around and see what others thought of my work. There's nothing special about it, and I'm not doing anything that would shake the uniform world to it's core. Just playing around with my favorite two types of uniforms. Which was the reason I asked, because it seemed only two or three people were giving me any type of feedback, which is much appreciated and so are all of your answers thank you.

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comment.

--Recreating an old uniform from a team's past is theft, not art or design.

Finally, what the early contributors brought that is sorely lacking is that they actually created new logos/identities. I personally appreciate taking chances with the 'untouchable' logos. There will always be someone who thinks their team is perfect or close enough. If you are posting concepts in the concepts forum for reasons other than improving your design skills, look for an atta-boy elsewhere.

That's not why I'm here, not that I'm think you're saying that. I want to hear input on my work because I want to get better and try and see what others see in my work. I'm no professional, I don't have illustrator or anything like that, nor do I think I have the skill to draw a logo to actually mock an original one up. But I do believe I have the skill and knowledge and motivation to learn to come up with sharp looking uniforms. I'm currently doing a NHL to baseball series that is just so I can play around and see what others thought of my work. There's nothing special about it, and I'm not doing anything that would shake the uniform world to it's core. Just playing around with my favorite two types of uniforms. Which was the reason I asked, because it seemed only two or three people were giving me any type of feedback, which is much appreciated and so are all of your answers thank you.

Inkscape is available for free if you want. :)

For the record, I was expressing my reasons for not commenting. I know people visit these forums for different reasons. Some are just into the aesthetic of sports identities. Some are sports fans with just a minor interest in sports logos. I believe there is no perfect logos, there are some that happen to be better than others.

In reviewing your NHL thread, my issue is that you are just taking established graphics and orientating them differently (in this case, on a baseball uniform template). Yes, it is a form of design. However, any comment made would be an attempt at improving your taste in aesthetics. Your work is a compilation of graphic elements instead of a body of design work. Everyone has to start somewhere, of course. I just hope there is an interest in studying the subject matter and creating an identity that communicates the right message. It would be disappointing if all you were interested in was scrapbooking with a sports theme.

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comment.

--Recreating an old uniform from a team's past is theft, not art or design.

Finally, what the early contributors brought that is sorely lacking is that they actually created new logos/identities. I personally appreciate taking chances with the 'untouchable' logos. There will always be someone who thinks their team is perfect or close enough. If you are posting concepts in the concepts forum for reasons other than improving your design skills, look for an atta-boy elsewhere.

That's not why I'm here, not that I'm think you're saying that. I want to hear input on my work because I want to get better and try and see what others see in my work. I'm no professional, I don't have illustrator or anything like that, nor do I think I have the skill to draw a logo to actually mock an original one up. But I do believe I have the skill and knowledge and motivation to learn to come up with sharp looking uniforms. I'm currently doing a NHL to baseball series that is just so I can play around and see what others thought of my work. There's nothing special about it, and I'm not doing anything that would shake the uniform world to it's core. Just playing around with my favorite two types of uniforms. Which was the reason I asked, because it seemed only two or three people were giving me any type of feedback, which is much appreciated and so are all of your answers thank you.

Inkscape is available for free if you want. :)

For the record, I was expressing my reasons for not commenting. I know people visit these forums for different reasons. Some are just into the aesthetic of sports identities. Some are sports fans with just a minor interest in sports logos. I believe there is no perfect logos, there are some that happen to be better than others.

In reviewing your NHL thread, my issue is that you are just taking established graphics and orientating them differently (in this case, on a baseball uniform template). Yes, it is a form of design. However, any comment made would be an attempt at improving your taste in aesthetics. Your work is a compilation of graphic elements instead of a body of design work. Everyone has to start somewhere, of course. I just hope there is an interest in studying the subject matter and creating an identity that communicates the right message. It would be disappointing if all you were interested in was scrapbooking with a sports theme.

I'll check out that software, thank you for the link and your input.

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I'll be perfectly honest. I enjoy helping people with their concepts and with improving their design skills. It reminds me of being in college and doing roundtable crits. But, I've gone above and beyond just regular C&C for people, only to have my input ignored. I've never been rude or disrespectful in my advice, always trying to not only point out flaws, but also offer ways to improve, but no one listens. So, quite frankly, I don't want to waste my time. If you're a member here and you're serious about wanting to get better, then show me and show us. Don't just ask for help then disappear or ignore the help you get. You don't even have to do everything I suggest, but at least acknowledge it and explain why you didn't do it. People will be able to give you better advice if they know what your thought process is.

Part of the problem is that a lot of people have never learned how to critique. Most critique in high school extends to, "Class, what do you think?" "..." "Jimmy? What do you think?" "...Yeah, it's alright. I like it." You don't need to be a qualified or professional designer to offer up your opinion. When I'm designing something, I'll ask the opinion of people who don't have the first clue about how to design something because they won't look at it as a designer. They'll look at it as the average person, without the design bias, and can see things I probably overlook because I'm either too close to the project to see it or too inclined to look at it technically and not see the basic faults. But I digress.

If you want to give better critique, whether you love something or hate it, do this:

- Explain why you like it. Don't just say "Oh, that looks badass." Go deeper. Explain why it looks "badass." Look at someone's work and really examine it. Figure out why it resonates with you, and convey that idea to them. Knowing why something works is extremely helpful to designers. Even if they're not getting much in the way of advice on how to improve something, they'll learn more from understanding their successes than just a hollow pat on the back.

- Explain why you don't like it. You can't just tell someone, "well, that's just not very good." Take the time to point out areas you think are weak. And don't just point them out; tell them how you think they could be improved. Even if you don't know a specific way to improve something, try communicating what you'd like to see accomplished, i.e. "the wings need to be a little more aggressive," or "the eyes don't seem to show enough character or depth."

- It doesn't have to be black-and-white. Point out everything you like and don't like about the work. You can go both ways with your critique. If you like a specific element, let the designer know that it's working for you. Even if you like one thing and don't like something else, point both of those things out. It's easier for designers to see where to improve and how to improve if they know what's working and what doesn't. They can apply those positive elements to the weaker ones and strengthen the work as a whole.

- Be diplomatic. (This is also known as professionalism.) If you let your personal feelings get involved in your critique, it's not going to be helpful. Be as objective as you can without being personal. You don't need to say "you're not very good at drawing eyes." You can say, "try working on the eyes a little more." If someone makes a stingray logo and you just really hate stingrays, put that aside. The designer might really like stingrays. It's their work, not yours. They just want help on improving it. Focus on the work at hand and what the designer is trying to accomplish, and don't get hung up on personal taste.

I've been around here a long time. This forum used to be great for creative discussion. Most of what I see now devolves into a bunch of blathering about grammar or some personal vendetta. That, and everyone seems so pissed off. Maybe you guys should just lighten up and try being nice to each other for a change.

Ninja edit: I do want to add one other side to my post that I think is also important: how to take critique.

This is pretty simple, but it's a difficult thing for a lot of people to do. When someone critiques your work, don't take it personally if they don't like it or think it could be better. You need somewhat of a thick skin to be a designer. You're in a line of work (or in a hobby for some) that requires you to make yourself vulnerable creatively. Understand that when someone offers you advice on how to improve your work, they're not personally denigrating you; they're just trying to help you.

I've been through countless projects where I submitted concept after concept after concept, only to have them rejected. (Just ask Joe Bosack.) There was a time when I did take it personally, and I felt like I wasn't a very good designer. But, I learned to get over that by understanding that the work is the focus of the critique. It's easy to feel personally attacked when you put so much of yourself into your work. But you need to learn to separate yourself from it as well in order to allow yourself to get better. Don't take criticism harshly and look down on yourself, wishing you'd done better. Take what you're given and use it to improve. You could design for 50 years and you'll never reach a point where you can't learn something. There is always something to learn from everyone and every project. Learn from your mistakes and let them make you stronger for it.

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I think we need to take that and pin it in the concepts thread, Nitro. Not that anyone would read it, mind you, but that makes it no less insightful.

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I think we need to take that and pin it in the concepts thread, Nitro. Not that anyone would read it, mind you, but that makes it no less insightful.

I'll second that. Great post. It should definitely be pinned.

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