Greatest Baseball Player of All Time

[LetsGoOakland9]

Who do you believe is the greatest baseball player of all time and why?

I didn't put this in the polls section because I didn't want to limit the options or end up with the "other" option winning by a lot.

[MC2]

Ted Williams or Lou Gherig.

[pmoehrin]

Just my personal top ten.

1. Babe Ruth

2. Walter Johnson

3. Ty Cobb

4. Honus Wagner

5. Stan Musial

6. Barry Bonds

7. Warren Spahn

8. Greg Maddux

9. Ted Williams

10. Rogers Hornsby

Other then maybe Jackie Robinson nobody else changed the game more then Babe Ruth.

[Signals]

Honus Wagner

or

Sandy Koufax

[NJTank]

I divide it between hitters and pitchers

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ty Cobb

3. Willie Mays

4. Lou Gehrig

5. Joe DiMaggio

6. Ted Williams

7. Barry Bonds

8. Rickey Henderson

9. Honus Wagner

10. Mickey Mantle

1. Walter Johnson

2. Sandy Koufax

3. Satchel Paige

4. Tom Seaver

5. Greg Maddux

6. Whitey Ford

7. Roger Clemens

8. Cy Young

9. Mariano Rivera

10. Warren Spahn

[Lights Out]

Offense: Hank Aaron. 755 home runs. 2,297 RBI (the most ever). 1,477 extra-base hits (the most ever). Third-most career hits in MLB history. Fourth-most runs in MLB history, tied with Babe Ruth. You can't really argue with his resume.

Defense/Pitching: Christy Mathewson. Easily the best pitcher of all time in my opinion. He led the league in ERA five times in seventeen years, pitched three shutouts in six days to lead the Giants to a World Series victory in 1905, 5th all-time in ERA, and for those who still think wins mean anything when judging a pitcher, he won 373 games. He was so good, he played in semi-pro leagues at 14 years old. He also invented the screwball. He racked up most of these accomplishments while also playing in the NFL and putting his body at risk.

[infrared41]

Interesting topic. Let me preface this by saying that I'm not trying to start a debate or flame war or anything. I'm simply stating my opinion.

You could make a good argument for quite a few players. That said, you can also argue against some seemingly obvious choices. For instance...

Babe Ruth: Great pitcher who moved to the outfield and hit .347 for his career with 714 home runs. So what's the knock on Babe Ruth you might ask. Well, he played in a segregated league so he wasn't facing the the best of the best. He played against the best white players. People who saw both of them play claim that Josh Gibson was every bit as good a hitter as Ruth was. To be fair though (in an admittedly strange use of the word "fair"), Josh Gibson also played in a league that didn't include the best of the best.

Based on that, I'd make the argument that MLB wasn't fully integrated (meaning race did not matter, period) until maybe as late as the mid 70's. The color line was broken in 1947 but there was still a good amount of discrimination going on well after Jackie Robinson. In the 50's and part of the 60's, the unwritten rule was that you didn't start more black players than white. The number of black pitchers, catchers, and even middle infielders was pretty low well into the 60's. For a long time after 1947 a black player had to be "star quality" to even make the big league team.

With that in mind, I think a discussion of the "all-time best" is better served if we look at it by eras.

[pmoehrin]

I divide it between hitters and pitchers

I used to do that, but I think I've found a way of accurately compairing the two while being fair to both, but I do get the rationale behind it. If I had to divide them this is how I would go.

Hitters

1. Babe Ruth

2. Ty Cobb

3. Honus Wagner

4. Stan Musial

5. Barry Bonds

6. Ted Williams

7. Rogers Hornsby

8. Tris Speaker

9. Eddie Collins

10. Willie Mays

11. Hank Aaron

12. Napoleon Lajoie

13. Mickey Mantle

14. Charlie Gehringer

15. Pete Rose

16. Lou Gehrig

17. Yogi Berra

18. Eddie Mathews

19. Mike Schmidt

20. Joe Morgan

Pitchers

1. Walter Johnson

2. Warren Spahn

3. Greg Maddux

4. Roger Clemens

5. Nolan Ryan

6. Grover Cleveland Alexander

7. Randy Johnson

8. Robin Roberts

9. Tom Seaver

10. Steve Carlton

11. Bob Feller

12. Christy Mathewson

13. Lefty Grove

14. Gaylord Perry

15. Don Sutton

16. Red Ruffing

17. Pedro Martinez

18. Early Wynn

19. Bob Gibson

20. Carl Hubbell

As far as the Negro League argument is concerned, I have to throw them out based on the idea that if you asked me how great Satchel Paige was, I couldn't give you an honest answer. Obviously the guy would almost certainly be amazing. He was pitching in the majors in his mid 40's and doing okay. Josh Gibson is another.

It just sucks that I feel like I have to do that, because it isn't fair, but I also can't evaluate guys based on what ifs which is what I would be doing if I were to try and rank them. That isn't fair either. I simply go on what people did in the MLB and that's it. It's not perfect but no system is.

The only thing I can come up with that is fair is to say that racism sucks.

[knnhrvy16]

It's always tough when it comes to these questions because as Infrared said, so many cases can be made for so many players.

As best as I can, I'll put together my top ten position players and top ten pitchers:

(I expect my top position player to be a less than popular opinion, but it is my true humble opinion. I don't want to start or provoke any flame wars about it )

Position Players:

1. Ty Cobb

2. Hank Aaron

3. Babe Ruth

4. Willie Mays

5. Josh Gibson

6. Lou Gehrig

7. Ted Williams

8. Stan Musial

9. Jimmie Foxx

10. Roberto Clemente

Honorables - Honus Wagner, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Pete Rose, Ken Griffey, Jr., Johnny Bench, Hank Greenberg, Eddie Mathews

Pitchers:

1. Walter Johnson

2. Sandy Koufax

3. Cy Young

4. Satchel Paige

5. Nolan Ryan

6. Roger Clemens

7. Christy Mathewson

8. Tom Seaver

9. Warren Spahn

10. Randy Johnson

Honorables - Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson, Bob Feller, Mariano Rivera, Greg Maddux, Juan Marichal

Shoot, that was really tough.

[ElwoodCuse]

Simple, really, it's either Barry Bonds or Babe Ruth, and deciding between the two requires quibbling over eras

[Drakonius26]

I'd personally go with Hank Aaron, in terms of a non-pitcher baseball player, and go with Nolan Ryan in terms of a pitcher from the modern era. If we're going all-time, then maybe I'll put Babe Ruth over Hank Aaron, and Walter Johnson over Nolan Ryan respectively.

[Saintsfan]

The only correct answer is Ruth. No player has made such an impact on offense and defense (pitching at least) as Ruth.

I would give an honourable mention to Willie Mays, for a whole number of reasons. Again his divide between offense and defense (out fielding this time!) is a big thing, but his historical impact as the second really major African American star, and his longevity.

And Ted Williams deserves a mention for his divide between power and average.

One last name that deserves more mention in these lists is Pete Rose. If we are over looking Bonds and the steroid era, we should look beyond Rose's gambling and acknowledge him as the best contact hitter of the 60s and 70s, and one of the most competetive and intense players of all time.

[north dakota]

Best hitter: Babe Ruth

Best pitcher: Babe Ruth, would of been the best pitcher ever if he would of kept on pitching.

[tBBP]

I'm not a big baseball guy, but I'll be the one to say it: George Herman Ruth, both the player and the legacy, are overrated. There, I said it. I think the main reason people revere the Babe as much as they do is because the man's name has been passed down through generations as if he was the only baseball player that ever existed in his time. (Yeah I went there...shoot me.)

It really makes me wish that Ken Griffey Jr. hadn't have been so injury-prone towards the later part of his career. Had the guy stayed healthy, I think he[/] would've done well enough to put himself at the top of the list. Just my own personal two pennies...from a casual baseball observer.

[HedleyLamarr]

Keith Lockhart....

[slapshot]

Keith Lockhart....

Greatest conductor/second baseman EVAR

[FiddySicks]

I'm saying thIs strictly on what I've seen live and on film, and living where I do I see a LOT of these two players. Much more than others, so consider the source.

Willie Mays: from the film I've seen and the stories I've heard there simply was no one better. The epitome and probably the invention of the 5 tool player came with Mays. The guy simply could do it all.

Barry Bonds: I know I know, but if there was a player who had a stronger shot at being the next Willy Mays, it was Bonds. He ended up breaking both of the leagues biggest home run records after he started juicing, but the problem is he probably would've gotten relatively close and been able to keep his defensive prowess without taking roids. And even with the steroids issue clouding his later accomplishments, he was the only baseball player I've seen who literally stopped everyone who was watching him every time he came to bat. The guy was phenomenally exciting. Had he not messed around with steroids I think he would've gone down as the greatest player of all time without much of a debate. Bonds is by far the dumbest player in the history of the game for doing what he did.

[YessSir32]

Ty Cobb. Have you seen that stats? 4,189 hits and .366 career batting average.

[Saintsfan]

I'm not a big baseball guy, but I'll be the one to say it: George Herman Ruth, both the player and the legacy, are overrated. There, I said it. I think the main reason people revere the Babe as much as they do is because the man's name has been passed down through generations as if he was the only baseball player that ever existed in his time. (Yeah I went there...shoot me.)

Ruth entirely changed the game, as a hitter, after having been one of the best pitchers of the 1910s. Before Ruth broke out his bat, the game was a contact game, players getting on base and scrambling on the base path.

Ruth was the first real for power hitter. He was helped by a couple of rule changes, most notably changing the ball more regularly, so it remained harder and whiter, but even still he was head and shoulders above really anyone else of his generation. Sure he played in the pre integration era, but he also only had a 152 game season, didn't use air travel and had other disadvantages as well.

[pianoknight]

I'm not a huge baseball junkie, but honestly the first name that EVERYONE thinks of is Babe Ruth. It's just Babe Ruth, period. No need for debate.

The only other guy I could consider is Jackie Robinson, if you're playing for a "humanitarian, advancing-the-sport" kind of angle. Breaking the color barrier was bigger than baseball itself.

So yeah, the Babe if you're going solely on "baller" status, and Robinson if you're gonna go for the human touch.

--EDIT--

Remember that the Babe played in an era where your "drug of choice" was actually a detractor from your performance, not an improvement. Forget HGH and steroids, the Babe managed to drink a quart of Jack Daniels, chew a bucket of tobacco and still smash balls over the fence. Hell, if they had invented Camelbacks in those days, you probably wouldda seen BR running the bases while he was swigging down some Wild Turkey.