What are some of the best baseball cities?

[BBTV]

I know there's been a lot of bickering in this thread about St. Louis, but of all the cities I have personally attended a game in, St. Louis had the best fans. Period. Unbiased point of view here.

I was very impressed by the fans in Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago. They love their team, everyone is decked out in black & yellow, awesome atmosphere all around.

Pittsburgh's kind of a sad story. They were one of the best baseball towns until the massive losing hit. They're finally drawing now, which is awesome for a team with such a great history and one of the ballparks as well, but that lack of attendance for so long kind of drops them down the list some.

Pittsburgh didn't sell out NLCS games in '91 and '92. Granted, it was a large stadium in a small market, but it's really not in the economic or population realm that is typically thought of when discussing major-league sports in 2011. I am glad to see the Pirates doing well though, as I have a lot of great memories from both 3 rivers and PNC (including sneaking in to the PNC construction site and getting a BJ on what is now the pitchers mound. Oh, college.)

And packing a stadium when the team sucks doesn't make anyone a great fan. "Suffering" isn't a badge of honor or anything. If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore? I get that it's fun to go with your buddies, and it's a bonding experience and all that, and that's cool - I get it. Really. But don't act like you're watching crappy baseball and "scouting" the young crappy players, or just waiting for a perfect 6-4-3 DP to cheer for because you "know the game" so well. It's not being a good fan - it's having nothing better to do. All this chest thumping about being great fans is sickening - if you need a label like that to feel a sense of pride, then you should give serious thought to just ending it, because it's clear that you're missing something big in your life.

Mr. Sunshine strikes again.

Did you even read what I typed? Or are you just offended that I'm not offering to blow you for being in the area that's labeled as the "greatest fans in america"?

If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore?

Well, if they're that bad, you can probably get pretty good seats for $30, and even a crappy baseball team can still give you a good game. I get your point, of course, and I'm duly impressed with getting a blowjob in a stadium, but if you're a big baseball fan, who's to say you can't derive enjoyment from a bad team? What do I know; I don't even derive enjoyment from good teams.

I guess what I'm saying is go to games if you want to, but don't bitch that they're not winning in exchange for showing up, and definitely don't bitch that you won't show up until they do win.

It wasn't really a stadium when that happened - it was still under construction, but it was easy to figure out where the pitcher's mound would be. It was really all dirt and half-constructed grandstands though.

You can derive enjoyment from bad teams. I admitted as much. But with all of these things, the enjoyment is more the "experience" - sitting there with your buddy or dad or whoever and laughing at how bad they are, or watching a promising rookie, or just having something to do on a random Wednesday night. I get all that - I've been to plenty of games when the Phillies had zero shot (they've been eliminated before April more seasons of my life then they haven't been.) But some would have you believe that being a baseball fan is like a job. "Hi honey, it's me. I have to go watch the XXXX tonight. Yeah, I know, but I don't want to lose the ability to brag to people who don't care that I was with them when they were at their worst, so I have to go." Actually, that person probably doesn't have a "honey".

[The_Admiral]

The trick is to say you were there for the worst but just lie. I didn't listen to every 2003-04 Blackhawks game. I'm only human.

[bigbean24]

How about Montreal!

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=371313

[McCall]

I know there's been a lot of bickering in this thread about St. Louis, but of all the cities I have personally attended a game in, St. Louis had the best fans. Period. Unbiased point of view here.

I was very impressed by the fans in Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago. They love their team, everyone is decked out in black & yellow, awesome atmosphere all around.

Pittsburgh's kind of a sad story. They were one of the best baseball towns until the massive losing hit. They're finally drawing now, which is awesome for a team with such a great history and one of the ballparks as well, but that lack of attendance for so long kind of drops them down the list some.

Pittsburgh didn't sell out NLCS games in '91 and '92. Granted, it was a large stadium in a small market, but it's really not in the economic or population realm that is typically thought of when discussing major-league sports in 2011. I am glad to see the Pirates doing well though, as I have a lot of great memories from both 3 rivers and PNC (including sneaking in to the PNC construction site and getting a BJ on what is now the pitchers mound. Oh, college.)

And packing a stadium when the team sucks doesn't make anyone a great fan. "Suffering" isn't a badge of honor or anything. If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore? I get that it's fun to go with your buddies, and it's a bonding experience and all that, and that's cool - I get it. Really. But don't act like you're watching crappy baseball and "scouting" the young crappy players, or just waiting for a perfect 6-4-3 DP to cheer for because you "know the game" so well. It's not being a good fan - it's having nothing better to do. All this chest thumping about being great fans is sickening - if you need a label like that to feel a sense of pride, then you should give serious thought to just ending it, because it's clear that you're missing something big in your life.

Mr. Sunshine strikes again.

Did you even read what I typed? Or are you just offended that I'm not offering to blow you for being in the area that's labeled as the "greatest fans in america"?

No I was referencing the end of your post where you went into your usual pretentious rant where anything that isn't your exact opinion is outrageously wrong and anybody who thinks that is an idiot.

I was optimistic at the start of your post, but then it took a turn to the dark places that you usually take them.

[infrared41]

And packing a stadium when the team sucks doesn't make anyone a great fan. "Suffering" isn't a badge of honor or anything. If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore? I get that it's fun to go with your buddies, and it's a bonding experience and all that, and that's cool - I get it. Really. But don't act like you're watching crappy baseball and "scouting" the young crappy players, or just waiting for a perfect 6-4-3 DP to cheer for because you "know the game" so well. It's not being a good fan - it's having nothing better to do. All this chest thumping about being great fans is sickening - if you need a label like that to feel a sense of pride, then you should give serious thought to just ending it, because it's clear that you're missing something big in your life.

Is that so? I ask because I've gone to numerous baseball games for the precise reasons you claim people don't. And I do "know the game." Very well actually. So much so in fact, that I know when it comes to baseball and this thread, all you've managed to do is show everyone how little you actually know about it. Is it a "badge of honor" to me? No, baseball is just something I truly enjoy. You know, kind of like how you enjoy being a pretentious ass-hole.

[Mings]

Yeah but have you received a BJ on the pitcher's mound?

[raysox]

I understand why KC and Baltimore can't draw 30,000 a night for terrible baseball, but I have never believed and cannot believe in the so-called constructive value of not going to games. It does not "send a message," it does not "demand a winner." All it does it give the team less revenue to work with. Teams get better because of organizational changes beyond our control. It feels good to think that we can choke out our favorite teams into spending the money that we're not giving them, but it's all drafting/development, really. The Rays were bad, so nobody went to the games. Then they got really bad. Nobody went to their games. Then the team was sold to people that weren't complete idiots who invested in development while inheriting years of high drafting from all that sucking. Still, nobody went to their games. Then they got really good and became a ballplayer factory. Nobody goes to their games.

That's a pretty good evaluation.

Teams take time to build a fan base. And with 9 of 10 years in last place, a lot of people lost hope. I've talked to many people who have said, "I never got into baseball because the Rays sucked." But there is a fan base growing. People move down here from north. But once they have kids and they want to share baseball, they go to games and gain fans. Obviously the new kids becoming Rays fans can't go. Hell, I still can't because I don't have money. But, some people hang onto their team even though they live down here.

I'm also a firm believer in a new stadium means attendance. I made a concept and will post it some time.

[The_Admiral]

I think the Blackhawks ruined "staying home demands a winner" for everybody. All that did was make the team suck till the old bastard finally died. Talk about organizational changes beyond our control!

[Milo Meningocele]

And packing a stadium when the team sucks doesn't make anyone a great fan. "Suffering" isn't a badge of honor or anything. If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore? I get that it's fun to go with your buddies, and it's a bonding experience and all that, and that's cool - I get it. Really. But don't act like you're watching crappy baseball and "scouting" the young crappy players, or just waiting for a perfect 6-4-3 DP to cheer for because you "know the game" so well. It's not being a good fan - it's having nothing better to do. All this chest thumping about being great fans is sickening - if you need a label like that to feel a sense of pride, then you should give serious thought to just ending it, because it's clear that you're missing something big in your life.

Is that so? I ask because I've gone to numerous baseball games for the precise reasons you claim people don't. And I do "know the game." Very well actually. So much so in fact, that I know when it comes to baseball and this thread, all you've managed to do is show everyone how little you actually know about it. Is it a "badge of honor" to me? No, baseball is just something I truly enjoy. You know, kind of like how you enjoy being a pretentious ass-hole.

I was gonna post something very similar, until I saw that infrared already did. The kind of thing you described is being a great fan. It's being there for the love of baseball and the team, regardless of the result. I don't see how you could say it's not being a great fan.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

I think BBTV is funny, so I'm okay with it.

Seattle hasn't come up in this conversation...and it shouldn't. Going to a Mariners game is a perfectly pleasant experience, but clearly not any sort of baseball mecca. You can get tickets for as low as $8, you can get an Ichiroll or garlic fries, play Nintendo at the kiosks, and wear nice blue, teal and silver gear. However, there's never any expectation of the team being especially good or bad, so your expectations are completely managed.

Mariners games are like the major league equivalent of rooting for a middle-of-the-pack little league team. Your kid might not be the best kid, but you might as well show up because he's there. And for that, Safeco gets 20,000 a night.

[BBTV]

And packing a stadium when the team sucks doesn't make anyone a great fan. "Suffering" isn't a badge of honor or anything. If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore? I get that it's fun to go with your buddies, and it's a bonding experience and all that, and that's cool - I get it. Really. But don't act like you're watching crappy baseball and "scouting" the young crappy players, or just waiting for a perfect 6-4-3 DP to cheer for because you "know the game" so well. It's not being a good fan - it's having nothing better to do. All this chest thumping about being great fans is sickening - if you need a label like that to feel a sense of pride, then you should give serious thought to just ending it, because it's clear that you're missing something big in your life.

Is that so? I ask because I've gone to numerous baseball games for the precise reasons you claim people don't. And I do "know the game." Very well actually. So much so in fact, that I know when it comes to baseball and this thread, all you've managed to do is show everyone how little you actually know about it. Is it a "badge of honor" to me? No, baseball is just something I truly enjoy. You know, kind of like how you enjoy being a pretentious ass-hole.

I was gonna post something very similar, until I saw that infrared already did. The kind of thing you described is being a great fan. It's being there for the love of baseball and the team, regardless of the result. I don't see how you could say it's not being a great fan.

Perhaps poor wording, but I'm refering to the notion that a good fan goes to the stadium night in and night out regardless of how great the team is. Of course people enjoy watching perfectly executed plays - that's part of the reason we watch pro sports - because these guys can do these things at a level that we can't and it can be fun to watch the best. I'm not saying that nobody goes to games for that reason. But if the team that you root for is 20 games out of first and playing crappy baseball, do you really go 60 times per season to see a 6-4-3? When someone starts spouting off about how fans in one area are great because they go every night no matter what and are so knowlegeable about the game, it implies that there are people willing to do that. Maybe it's because they just love the "sport" so much (though these days pro sports are so expensive that you need to be getting more out of it than just the actual sport IMO) or maybe it's because they are masochists who feel like it's a badge of honor and it gives them the right to puff their chest and look down on the "bandwagon" fans that come out when the team is good.

[infrared41]

And packing a stadium when the team sucks doesn't make anyone a great fan. "Suffering" isn't a badge of honor or anything. If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore? I get that it's fun to go with your buddies, and it's a bonding experience and all that, and that's cool - I get it. Really. But don't act like you're watching crappy baseball and "scouting" the young crappy players, or just waiting for a perfect 6-4-3 DP to cheer for because you "know the game" so well. It's not being a good fan - it's having nothing better to do. All this chest thumping about being great fans is sickening - if you need a label like that to feel a sense of pride, then you should give serious thought to just ending it, because it's clear that you're missing something big in your life.

Is that so? I ask because I've gone to numerous baseball games for the precise reasons you claim people don't. And I do "know the game." Very well actually. So much so in fact, that I know when it comes to baseball and this thread, all you've managed to do is show everyone how little you actually know about it. Is it a "badge of honor" to me? No, baseball is just something I truly enjoy. You know, kind of like how you enjoy being a pretentious ass-hole.

I was gonna post something very similar, until I saw that infrared already did. The kind of thing you described is being a great fan. It's being there for the love of baseball and the team, regardless of the result. I don't see how you could say it's not being a great fan.

Perhaps poor wording, but I'm refering to the notion that a good fan goes to the stadium night in and night out regardless of how great the team is. Of course people enjoy watching perfectly executed plays - that's part of the reason we watch pro sports - because these guys can do these things at a level that we can't and it can be fun to watch the best. I'm not saying that nobody goes to games for that reason. But if the team that you root for is 20 games out of first and playing crappy baseball, do you really go 60 times per season to see a 6-4-3? When someone starts spouting off about how fans in one area are great because they go every night no matter what and are so knowlegeable about the game, it implies that there are people willing to do that. Maybe it's because they just love the "sport" so much (though these days pro sports are so expensive that you need to be getting more out of it than just the actual sport IMO) or maybe it's because they are masochists who feel like it's a badge of honor and it gives them the right to puff their chest and look down on the "bandwagon" fans that come out when the team is good.

Perhaps? Anyway, to answer your question, no. But they might go to see other teams or players. For instance, if the Indians are 20 games out, I'd still go to Progressive Field to see a team like the Phillies if they happen to come to town for interleague play. Or I might go to see them play Detroit to watch Justin Verlander pitch etc. If you're a fan of the game, it's pretty easy to find a reason to go to the yard and watch a game. This summer I'll be in Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, and Toledo for the sole reason of going to a baseball game. Some of the games are simply so I can see the stadium. Others are to see particular teams or players. I go because I love baseball. Who needs a better reason than that?

[infrared41]

Yeah but have you received a BJ on the pitcher's mound?

No. The pitcher's mound gets you too dirty. Ask me about the grass between the mound and first.

[Mings]

I guess if there is grass on the field, play ball.

Also Red, try to hit up Dayton if you can get tickets. I've heard the atmosphere is great for Single A ball and they just broke the all time sellout streak for any sport.

[infrared41]

Also Red, try to hit up Dayton if you can get tickets. I've heard the atmosphere is great for Single A ball and they just broke the all time sellout streak for any sport.

Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe I'll see if I can work Dayton in to the Cincinnati trip.

[BBTV]

And packing a stadium when the team sucks doesn't make anyone a great fan. "Suffering" isn't a badge of honor or anything. If the Phillies are 20 games out of first, and it's summer in Philadelphia, am I going to buy a $30 ticket to see the team just for the "love of the game" or am I going to go to the shore? I get that it's fun to go with your buddies, and it's a bonding experience and all that, and that's cool - I get it. Really. But don't act like you're watching crappy baseball and "scouting" the young crappy players, or just waiting for a perfect 6-4-3 DP to cheer for because you "know the game" so well. It's not being a good fan - it's having nothing better to do. All this chest thumping about being great fans is sickening - if you need a label like that to feel a sense of pride, then you should give serious thought to just ending it, because it's clear that you're missing something big in your life.

Is that so? I ask because I've gone to numerous baseball games for the precise reasons you claim people don't. And I do "know the game." Very well actually. So much so in fact, that I know when it comes to baseball and this thread, all you've managed to do is show everyone how little you actually know about it. Is it a "badge of honor" to me? No, baseball is just something I truly enjoy. You know, kind of like how you enjoy being a pretentious ass-hole.

I was gonna post something very similar, until I saw that infrared already did. The kind of thing you described is being a great fan. It's being there for the love of baseball and the team, regardless of the result. I don't see how you could say it's not being a great fan.

Perhaps poor wording, but I'm refering to the notion that a good fan goes to the stadium night in and night out regardless of how great the team is. Of course people enjoy watching perfectly executed plays - that's part of the reason we watch pro sports - because these guys can do these things at a level that we can't and it can be fun to watch the best. I'm not saying that nobody goes to games for that reason. But if the team that you root for is 20 games out of first and playing crappy baseball, do you really go 60 times per season to see a 6-4-3? When someone starts spouting off about how fans in one area are great because they go every night no matter what and are so knowlegeable about the game, it implies that there are people willing to do that. Maybe it's because they just love the "sport" so much (though these days pro sports are so expensive that you need to be getting more out of it than just the actual sport IMO) or maybe it's because they are masochists who feel like it's a badge of honor and it gives them the right to puff their chest and look down on the "bandwagon" fans that come out when the team is good.

Perhaps? Anyway, to answer your question, no. But they might go to see other teams or players. For instance, if the Indians are 20 games out, I'd still go to Progressive Field to see a team like the Phillies if they happen to come to town for interleague play. Or I might go to see them play Detroit to watch Justin Verlander pitch etc. If you're a fan of the game, it's pretty easy to find a reason to go to the yard and watch a game. This summer I'll be in Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, and Toledo for the sole reason of going to a baseball game. Some of the games are simply so I can see the stadium. Others are to see particular teams or players. I go because I love baseball. Who needs a better reason than that?

Oh I get that - I spent my one night in LA at Dodger Stadium just to see the park, and I take tours of parks when I'm in cities and the home team isn't in town.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Some of this stuff seems to suggest that the same 30,000-40,000 people are forced to show up in these stadiums for 81 games a year.

When I was a kid I went to one, maybe two games a year and I just wanted the Cubs to win that particular game. Now, as a long-time season ticket holder, my perspective has changed. In fact, I'm thinking it's time to scale back. Someone else will no doubt take my place... for a while. But if they keep losing, that cycle will end.

Teams need to get the right mix of casual fans and die-hards and you can survive the lean years -- as long as they aren't prolonged.

St. Louis wins this hands down in my mind.

[crashcarson15]

Ya know, St. Louis, it's pretty easy to be a "great baseball town" when in 22 of the last 29 full seasons (counting this year), the team has had winning records. Also, the 7 years with losing records?

-1983, year after a WS win

-1986, year after a WS loss

-1988, year after a WS loss

-1997, year after an NLCS loss

-1999, McGwire hit 65 homers

-2007, year after a WS win

The other year in there is 1990 (and you could throw in '94 and '95 as strike-shortened years), but really, maybe with the exception of the early 90's, the Cards have been competitive or coming off of a great year (or having a great storyline) every single year. It's pretty hard not to be a great baseball town when you have that atmosphere. You've gotta remember, even Cleveland was for those first 8 or 9 years at the Jake, the Tribe were really starting to become a competitive team.

[McCall]

Ya know, St. Louis, it's pretty easy to be a "great baseball town" when in 22 of the last 29 full seasons (counting this year), the team has had winning records. Also, the 7 years with losing records?

-1983, year after a WS win

-1986, year after a WS loss

-1988, year after a WS loss

-1997, year after an NLCS loss

-1999, McGwire hit 65 homers

-2007, year after a WS win

The other year in there is 1990 (and you could throw in '94 and '95 as strike-shortened years), but really, maybe with the exception of the early 90's, the Cards have been competitive or coming off of a great year (or having a great storyline) every single year. It's pretty hard not to be a great baseball town when you have that atmosphere. You've gotta remember, even Cleveland was for those first 8 or 9 years at the Jake, the Tribe were really starting to become a competitive team.

Actually as far as competitive teams go, the 90's weren't much for the Cards. But fans still came out in droves no matter how the team played.

You're just a kid so it's understandable why you seem to have trouble accepting this.

[crashcarson15]

Ya know, St. Louis, it's pretty easy to be a "great baseball town" when in 22 of the last 29 full seasons (counting this year), the team has had winning records. Also, the 7 years with losing records?

-1983, year after a WS win

-1986, year after a WS loss

-1988, year after a WS loss

-1997, year after an NLCS loss

-1999, McGwire hit 65 homers

-2007, year after a WS win

The other year in there is 1990 (and you could throw in '94 and '95 as strike-shortened years), but really, maybe with the exception of the early 90's, the Cards have been competitive or coming off of a great year (or having a great storyline) every single year. It's pretty hard not to be a great baseball town when you have that atmosphere. You've gotta remember, even Cleveland was for those first 8 or 9 years at the Jake, the Tribe were really starting to become a competitive team.

Actually as far as competitive teams go, the 90's weren't much for the Cards. But fans still came out in droves no matter how the team played.

You're just a kid so it's understandable why you seem to have trouble accepting this.

"Came out in droves," eh? You're still giving yourselves too much credit. More often than not, the Cards found themselves in the middle-third of attendance in the 90's.