The Forgotten Cartoon Bird

[Trevell]

Wow this is one of the best threads since the Brooklyn dodgers logo one. I've learned alot, it is interesting to see all of the different variations of the same logo! Thanks Trevell NDwas and others.

Thanks kcchiefsfan. I remember reading that Brooklyn Dodgers thread a while back and wishing there was someone who would give that same treatment to the Orioles cartoon bird logo!

I wouldn't call myself a serious cap collector by any means, but it's always cool to have a few caps on hand just for whenever. It just ticks me off when I see major inaccuracies with historic caps. I don't expect a stitch by stitch replica, necessarily (although that would be nice), but at least get the logo right. That's the most important part of the cap!

[Trevell]

I dug out a couple books to reference at home. I've got a Topps book of all the Orioles team baseball card sets through 1987. The cards on the pages are shrunk down to about a quarter of the size of an actual card, but of all the clear photo cards that have the players wearing the black crowned '66-'74 cap, this is the only version of the logo that I see:

I've also got The Orioles Encyclopedia. Not exactly filled with a ton of photos, but of the dozen plus or so pictures of players wearing that cap, I only see that same logo.

So I think it's safe to say that this is THE logo of the '66-'74 cap, made by Wilson Sporting Goods. So if they put out a repro of the '66-'74 cap, with that logo, I would be perfectly happy with it.

It's still interesting that all the versions of the Cartoon Bird logo made it onto the black crowned cap. I'm guessing that the other logos we've seen on this cap were some sort of prototypes:

or in the case of this logo, samples from the KM Pro cap company:

It would be interesting to know what company had exclusive rights to the Orioles caps during those years. My guess would be Wilson, since the majority of the hats from that era seem to be made by them.

I just found out through this site: ballcapblog that Wilson caps were manufactured by New Era, and most of the embroidery was done by under private label by Roman Pro.

Don't know if this was the case for this specific cap, but interesting info nonetheless.

[Trevell]

Here's a pretty good video by Tom Davis on O's hat history:

http://www.masnsports.com/ml/video.php?show_id=40418

It's pretty comprehensive, but I'm not sure this logo:

Was used from '76 on.

Going by my Topps Orioles book, I don't see that hat come up until the 1979('78 season)set, and it's only on two cards that I can tell. It's not until the 1980('79 season) set on, that you see every single player with that logo.

This one isn't even mentioned in the video, but in The Orioles Encyclopedia, there is one picture with this logo:

It's worn by Don Stanhouse, who was on the team '78-'79, and '82.

There are a few cards in the '79('78 season) Topps set, that look like they might have that logo, but it's hard to tell.

The logo that Tom says was used in '75 only, can be seen on caps through the '79('78 season) set.

There seems to be some possible overlap in the late '70's, which makes trying to figure this out a little confusing.

All this information leads me to believe that the following could possibly be the correct chronology for the the Orioles on-field Cartoon Bird logo:

L-R:

1. 1966-1974 - This is the only logo I've seen the players wear in pictures. Made by Wilson Sporting Goods.

2. 1975-1978 - Logo used on both white and orange panel('75-'76 only)alternate. Made by AJD.

3. 1975-1976 - Logo used on both white and orange panel alternate. Made by AJD.

4. 1978 - Made by Roman Pro.

5. 1979-1988 - Made by New Era(possibly Sports Specialties as well)

Well there it is, if anyone can add to this with player or team photos for more clarification, it would be great!

[Trevell]

...and just for fun, the whole dang family!!!

[Gothamite]

One thing that might be worth considering is that some players might have continued to wear old caps after the team changed suppliers. That's a problem I had doing my Brooklyn Dodger research - maddening.

Great job on the recap! I never realized that there were so many variations of this logo.

[Trevell]

One thing that might be worth considering is that some players might have continued to wear old caps after the team changed suppliers. That's a problem I had doing my Brooklyn Dodger research - maddening.

Great job on the recap! I never realized that there were so many variations of this logo.

Thanks Gothamite. I did that into consideration. Also, most of the baseball card pictures were taken during Spring Training back then, so that's another thing to consider when using them as a reference.

Your Brooklyn Dodger "B" thread was sort of an inspiration for this thread. I share your frustrations on wishing New Era/Cooperstown would get these throwbacks right!

Here's a cool pic of Reggie Jackson sportin' the '75-'76 alternate orange panel AJD cap:

And here's the crappy remake by New Era/Cooperstown:

I wouldn't expect New Era to reproduce a 100% Nylon version of this cap to exact specifications, as it was originally made, but like I said earlier, at least get the logo right.

Here's an American Needle version that's even worse!

From the description:

"Own a little piece of history with American Needle's Baltimore Orioles 1975-76 Alternate Cooperstown Cap, a precise replica of what the legendary pros once wore."

Haha! Yeah right!

[Trevell]

Well, I guess that Orioles baseball card book I have, with the 1/4 size pics really isn't detailed enough to tell which logo is being worn. I just checked out a few actual cards from a dealer friend of mine and discovered this on a couple '75('74 season) cards:

It's Jim Palmer with the bird that would later be seen next year with the up turned beak against the white panels.

So maybe they used this logo for the last year of the black crowned caps and in '75, AJD used it in the transition to their white and orange panel caps?

Checked a couple cards from the '74('73 season)set, and it appears to be the more common '66 bird:

[Gothamite]

Are you sure that the 1974 cards are from the 73 season?

Photos were often taken during Spring Training of the same year, during which the players may or may not have been wearing old caps. Unfortunately, that means cards aren't always the best resource for conclusively dating a cap logo.

[Trevell]

Are you sure that the 1974 cards are from the 73 season?

Photos were often taken during Spring Training of the same year, during which the players may or may not have been wearing old caps. Unfortunately, that means cards aren't always the best resource for conclusively dating a cap logo.

I guess I just assumed it was a mix. Some from Spring Training of the same year and some from the season of the previous year. For example, in their '75 team photo card, they are wearing all black crowned caps, and that picture is taken at Memorial Stadium, so it was probably taken the previous year.

But yes, I know cards aren't the best reference to go by, but at least it's something. So let's assume that Palmer card is from '75 Spring Training and he's still wearing his '74 cap, since we know that '75 is the year the O's started wearing the white paneled cap. In all of the '75 Topps cards, there is not one white paneled cap. You don't see all white paneled caps until the '76 set.

[powersurge]

I've never liked the decapitated cartoon Oriole head. I love the full body bat swinging rendering of it, but not the floating head. It just doesn't work for me. Don't get me started on the O's hat they use from time to time....total garbage. The only team that should get a pass for using a letter with an apostrophe 's' are the A's. THAT'S IT....and thats only because they've worn them for many years. Everyone else needs to stop.

[The Six]

Still looks like a blackface mistrel

[Trevell]

I'd love to see the cartoon bird brought back officially, but I'd even settle for throwbacks, if they just got it right.

Like I said before, I don't expect stitch by stitch, matching material replicas, but I would kill to have New Era 59FIFTY caps with these logos on them! Instead, they put out the replicas only with that one bird!

I bought myself the recent Turn Back The Clock hat, but only because it's an actual on-field, pro model. Call me a nitpicker, but I'm just not interested in the Cooperstown Collection replicas if they don't at least get the logo right.

Currently, these are the best we have for throwback caps:

Again, I bought this one, but only because it's an on-field model.

I'd much rather see this cap with this logo:

(please excuse the crappy photoshop)

I'd buy this cap in a heartbeat if it had this logo:

And finally this cap:

This one they pretty much got right, although, maybe the logo could use just a little tweaking. Here's an actual game worn cap for comparison:

I'd be more than happy with those 3 caps representing the cartoon bird logo hats in the New Era/Cooperstown Collection line. You've got one black crowned cap, one orange paneled cap, and one white paneled cap, with 3 different logo variations.

I'd also like to see this one remade into a 59FIFTY:

I know it might be pushing it to have another white panel cartoon bird cap, but I just love this logo, I think it's my favorite one now. Plus, this cap is slightly different in that it has black stitching around the white panels.

Not sure what to do with these guys:

They are pretty much the same, besides one having an orange cap button, the other one black.

The one with the black button was used on both Mitchell & Ness and Roman Pro replicas, on the black crowned cap, back when they had rights to the Cooperstown Collection.

So yeah, until New Era gets it right, (I won't hold my breath) I won't be buying any of their Cooperstown caps, except maybe the white panel one. I wonder if there is some way to contact them and get them hip about the different variations?

In the meantime, I guess I'll be searching for actual game-used, vintage caps.

[TheFloridianLogoMan]

Trevell.....I hate to bump an almost 5 month old thread, but I don't know where else this would fit without starting a new thread altogether. I was watching clips of the 1979 MLB All-star game (because, being 25 years old, it was impossible for me to watch that game live) and I came across this version of the cartoon bird logo....one that I had never seen before.

Really weird looking bird compared to the others. Just thought I would share this.

[Trevell]

Trevell.....I hate to bump an almost 5 month old thread, but I don't know where else this would fit without starting a new thread altogether. I was watching clips of the 1979 MLB All-star game (because, being 25 years old, it was impossible for me to watch that game live) and I came across this version of the cartoon bird logo....one that I had never seen before.

Really weird looking bird compared to the others. Just thought I would share this.

I'm guessing that version was hand-painted onto the fence. Cool pic!

[TornadoGTS]

The last one in your sig Trevell, is the one they're gonna be using on the hats this year.

[Lucas718]

I knew the cartoon bird had changed a bit over the years, but I didn't realize there were so many variations. I would have thought there were 3, maybe 4. It always struck me as odd that the bird wore a cap that was different than what the team actually wore.