Elite Football League of India

[touchdownindia]

Glad the YSI.com link worked. The front view was an option that the ownership group debated... Ultimately they liked the Tiger profile and how it would appear on the helmet... however, we might include this as a secondary mark in the future... The orange is driven by the mandate from the league CEO to focus on bright colors as research showed that bright colors should be used if at all possible... and already having black for the Gladiators, navy blue for the Warriors and burgundy for the Warhawks, we choose orange instead of black or purple (Vipers)... The EFLI has agreed to not consider kelly green as a dominant uniform color since it does not contrast on the playing field... the Boise State royal blue issue was preceded by the Jets all green set...

chickenfish13- thanks for the great input... I tend to agree with your comments... and if we dont use the front facing Tiger for the EFLI the Detroit Tigers will be getting a call in the future... LOL

[Brian in Boston]

I wanted to sent along the original EFLI Pune BlackTigers logo and get some input from the Forum. Brian in Boston, this one is a Tiger facing forward with a dominant black body and purple striping... It's interesting, but does not have the ferocity of the in works design...

It almost reads to me as a a tiger with a Purple pelt and Black striping. What might a reversal of those two colors in this logo look like?

In any event, even reading as Purple with Black striping, to my mind this depiction still better conveys the idea of a tiger with a pseudo-melanistic coat than a conventional predominantly Orange tiger would. I can't wait to see the profile logo. Looks sharp, Mr. O'Grady... nicely done!

[touchdownindia]

Hey Brian- I will try the reversal... it just might work... I'm a creature of habit and always lean on using a dark shape to hold the image together... it's a matter of getting the profile positive/negative space on the Tiger to work. I have some more scans working of the BlackTigers profile... much better than the YSI.com black and white version but that's the overall direction it's headed.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/ZUd2TkFtcWZRR2RFQlE9PQ

We're going to get started on designing the EFLI football... Any favorites? I was thinking of using super bright yellow laces and a lighter leather shade for the official EFLI ball??? Thoughts???

http://tinyurl.com/3thbf4u

[BBTV]

I think for a league that's just starting out and who's legitimacy will be in question right from the beginning, sticking with a traditional design for the ball is the way to go. There's certainly room for expression there, be it the laces or whatever, but I certainly wouldn't go with something Arena League or XFLish right away. Gimmicky things like that might get some initial attention, but they'll instantly brand the league as a minor league or... well, a gimmick league and that instant perception may be impossible to overcome, no matter how successful it becomes otherwise.

[Brian in Boston]

Hey Brian- I will try the reversal... it just might work... I'm a creature of habit and always lean on using a dark shape to hold the image together... it's a matter of getting the profile positive/negative space on the Tiger to work.

It was just a thought. Admittedly, my concern when I made the suggestion was that it would require tweaking certain aspects of the mark - most notably, adding a Black outline "to hold the image together". We're in agreement on a darker color generally providing better containment for a logo.

As I said, with the coloring "as is", I think the Purple and Black combination does wonders for communicating the idea of a pseudo-melanistic tiger.

[Cola]

The more I look at the logos, the more the letters of the mascot rather than the city being predominant bug me. That just isn't normal.

W for Bhubaneswar Warhawks, V for Kolkata Vipers, and S for Goa Swarm...and K for Hyderabad Skykings, total loss for words there.

[Slickster]

Well, all EFLI games are being played at one stadium in Pune, so it's not as if the 'home' cities are really being represented in any meaningful way anyway.

[Mac the Knife]

Mr. O'Grady has offered-up an apology for past transgressions and, since doing so, has maintained a civil tone in his posts in an effort to "engage in positive relevant discussions". To my mind, given Mr. O'Grady's efforts to become a more respectful member of the CCSLC moving forward, continuing to attack him for his past actions is counter-productive.

Yeah, I agree. Contrition has at least been implied, and he's behaving in a fashion that is that of the type of user the CCSLC wants to have around. So let's see if Tom can keep himself in check before jumping all over him, for past transgressions or otherwise.

[touchdownindia]

The more I look at the logos, the more the letters of the mascot rather than the city being predominant bug me. That just isn't normal.

W for Bhubaneswar Warhawks, V for Kolkata Vipers, and S for Goa Swarm...and K for Hyderabad Skykings, total loss for words there.

Cola-There are no rules or regulations for city letter versus nickname letter in the primary mark for the EFLI teams. It's typical to see professional North American teams feature either the city letter or the nickame letter in their primary logo. For the EFLI, using the V for VIPERS, the W for WARHAWKS was driven in large part by the design advantages. We've focused on the teams nicknames since you become a fan of the Swarm not of GOA (cheering for the laundry...LOL) ... Goa is a place... Swarm? The team name you form a tribal (team) connection with. I'd argue that teams in fact should use the nickname in most cases....

Quick examples...

B = Cincinnati Bengals

D = Anaheim Ducks

A = Colorado Avalanche

Ch = Montreal Canadiens

R = Houston Rocekts...

I can go on, but while the nickname lettering seems to bother you, it's very standard in pro sports...

Thanks for the reply=

Tom O'Grady

[touchdownindia]

The greats in this specialized part of the graphic design world: the Bosacks, the Simons, the Verlanders, the Rickabaughs, etc...; they all operate with a sense of professionalism and dignity that makes it very easy to give them the respect they deserve. While I hope to have my name among those elite in time, I try to let my work speak for itself. I wish nothing but the best for Tom, but I'm going to need to see more change before I believe it.

I understand your points and appreciate your position. I wish you all the success in the industry. I post on this site in large part because designers that you mention above don't have a forum to express their viewpoints... The Creamer site is the ideal place to exchange thoughts and opinions.

I do need to clarify one point you make in your criticism if you just hear me out. First and foremost, none of my design criticism is stemmed from a personal standpoint. I have nothing but TREMENDOUS respect and admiration for the work created by Joe Bosack, Dan Simon, Mark Verlander, Eric Rickabaugh, Bill Frederick, Tom Froberg, Ken Shafer, Ed O'Hara and Todd Radom amongst others. They are the industry leaders in sports branding and the gold standard everyone else (including myself) should aspire to.I commissioned many high visibility projects during my 12-year stint at the helm of NBA Creative Services to many of these firms. The F-Boyz, Todd and Ed O'Hara are close friends. Great, great people!!!!!!!

Verlander? HIs work for the NFL is just sick!!!! I believe, he captures the ideal look for the NFL. It's the perfect mix of clean iconographic symbolism for America's most iconographic sport. Perfection, really...

Todd? He invented the Cooperstown look IMO. And yet he's flexible enough to create the Houston Super Bowl XXXVIII logo. He created the Indiana Fever mark too. My favorite WNBA logo...

F-Boyz? Not only GREAT branding designers but they helped to create the cutting edge look of the courtside signage you've seen for years at NBA arenas. Great guys too. They are the ultimate "style guides" guys.

My criticisms towards sports branding firms work (including my own) is in a narrow category rooted in a trend that I was partly responsible for back in the mid-90's: the over animated "illustrations" logos that were a powerful trend then. Starting with the Raptors, Hawks, Bucks alternates, Grizzlies, etc. those identities took on a cartoonish "in your face" look --- a trend that took off for a period of time (which came on the heels of the Mighty Ducks logo... the Disney created goalie bill). Unfortunately, that fad (mostly developed with the assistance of SME) had a shorter shelf life than expected. At the time it "sold" and seemed to be the ideal solution.

We also created secondary logos for the Raptors (the claw) the Grizzles (the claw mark) which were clean, simple, iconographic, the essence of an NBA secondary logo. Over time those secondary icons have replaced those original primary logos. What happened was that the clean, icons logos took over and the cartoony marks were substituted or eliminated altogether. So I take some responsibility for creating the trend known as "cartoony" logos.

Fast forward from 1995 to 2011. Over time the cartoony trend expanded quickly to the minor league and collegiate/university category. It's become more popular than ever. And in my opinion, (and it's only my opinion, so please NO piling on) the work being done at the MILB and collegiate level has been stuck in that late 1990's look FOR THE MOST PART. Why does this matter? It's doesn't actually at all. It's just a personal observation. LOL. It's just my thought on the subject. I wish there would be a higher "Verlander or Radom" touch, like the Brooklyn Cyclones that Todd nailed that would move those categories into a new more iconic direction...

There are dozens of minor league marketing executives who would read this and say, this guy O'Grady does not know the first THING about marketing to our minor league baseball fan base. And they would be right. Those execs see young families at their ballparks by the thousands ---- and the young kids LOVE those mascots and don't worry about "cartoony" logos; in fact they embrace them. So the illustrations developed by Dan and Francis amongst others are in fact perfectly tailored to their (paying) clients requests and their audience. The formula and standard is tightly in place. So please don't make it a O'Grady hates Studio Simon. Nothing could be further from the truth. I just think there's another way to reach all audiences not just 7-year olds.

My point, it would be interesting to see symbolic interpretations of minor league club identities instead of the cartoony designs... IMO.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/678390-50-most-original-minor-league-baseball-team-names/page/3

Would love other thoughts and yes it's somewhat a petty argument --- but it's my observation on the matter.

[Cosmic]

We're going to get started on designing the EFLI football... Any favorites? I was thinking of using super bright yellow laces and a lighter leather shade for the official EFLI ball??? Thoughts???

http://tinyurl.com/3thbf4u

I actually like the lighter leather on that WFL ball. It seems like an Indian color to me... maybe it reminds me of curry powder? That color with some red laces and I think you'd have a nice ball without it being gaudy.

I think for a league that's just starting out and who's legitimacy will be in question right from the beginning, sticking with a traditional design for the ball is the way to go. There's certainly room for expression there, be it the laces or whatever, but I certainly wouldn't go with something Arena League or XFLish right away. Gimmicky things like that might get some initial attention, but they'll instantly brand the league as a minor league or... well, a gimmick league and that instant perception may be impossible to overcome, no matter how successful it becomes otherwise.

If it were an American league, I'd be with you. The EFLI doesn't really need North American support in any way that I can see. Certainly, if the league ran things like a circus, it might be hard for the Indians to take them seriously. I don't think this crosses that line, though.

[touchdownindia]

We're going to get started on designing the EFLI football... Any favorites? I was thinking of using super bright yellow laces and a lighter leather shade for the official EFLI ball??? Thoughts???

http://tinyurl.com/3thbf4u

I actually like the lighter leather on that WFL ball. It seems like an Indian color to me... maybe it reminds me of curry powder? That color with some red laces and I think you'd have a nice ball without it being gaudy.

I think for a league that's just starting out and who's legitimacy will be in question right from the beginning, sticking with a traditional design for the ball is the way to go. There's certainly room for expression there, be it the laces or whatever, but I certainly wouldn't go with something Arena League or XFLish right away. Gimmicky things like that might get some initial attention, but they'll instantly brand the league as a minor league or... well, a gimmick league and that instant perception may be impossible to overcome, no matter how successful it becomes otherwise.

If it were an American league, I'd be with you. The EFLI doesn't really need North American support in any way that I can see. Certainly, if the league ran things like a circus, it might be hard for the Indians to take them seriously. I don't think this crosses that line, though.

There's that fine line of trying to be the same, but different enough that you know it's an EFLI football... I too LOVE the WFL football...

[Panthers]

Um, Mr. TDI:

I hate to tell you this, but the folks you mention don't hold a candle to the artists who made NFL Properties what it was. David Boss was a powerhouse. He designed the Rams and Bills uniforms for '73, he had a hand in what was then a revolutionary look - the wrap around Seahawk on the helmet, he designed the entire WLAF including the Ohio Glory. Do you realize how many teams have copied or bastardized the Birmingham Fire helmet and jersey? The fans in Germany loved the Galaxy colors and logo (I know, I saw enough games in Frankfurt and Dusseldorf). Like it or hate it, the Orlando Thunder home jerseys were a topic of conversation. Merv Corning, Bart Forbes, Chuck Ren - pick up any NFL book that has anything to do with the history of the league, and chances are you will see their work.

These guys you mentioned? The Cologne Centurions? One of the least-favorite NFL E logos and combos? (BTW, red and white are the colors of the City of Koln, not red white black).

You do realize the Delhi team owes its helmet design to the Fire, right?

Let's be honest. The designs are ok. But you have miles and miles to go before you can talk the talk.

[Brian in Boston]

You do realize the Delhi team owes its helmet design to the Fire, right?

Really? I'd have guessed the Philadelphia Eagles. The wings and all.

[touchdownindia]

Panthers-

While your passion is admirable, your facts are misleading and inaccurate, IMO...

The NFLE Birmingham Fire bastardized the WFL Chicago Fire helmet almost 20 years later.

Chicago Fire (1st season: 1974)

http://tinyurl.com/3wlnm53

Birmingham Fire (1st season: 1991)

http://tinyurl.com/3e7by72

Not to be rude, but I've been in the sports branding business for a very long time, never heard the name David Boss?

Personally, I find nothing overly interesting about 1973 Rams (let's take the horn that's been on the helmet since 1948 and adapt it to the sleeve?) and Bills uniforms are not revolutionary for any reason.

I would argue that the Rams helmet design from the late '40's is:

http://foreshock.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/la_thumb_1950.jpg

St. Louis/Los Angeles/Cleveland Rams: 1946-1949: The first NFL football helmet with a logo or design. Created by LA Rams halfback Fred Gerhke in 1946, who was trained in art. The original leather helmets were hand-painted by Gerhke, who played for the Rams in Cleveland in 1940 & 1945, and in LA from 1946-1949. In 1949, Riddell started making plastic shell helmets with the Rams logo.

While I like the Seahawks helmet from the Jim Zorn / Steve Largent era, helmets like the Philadelphia Eagles or the Michigan Wolverines already had set the "revolutionary direction" of the super graphic on the helmet concept... So revolutionary is embellishing the Seahawks helmet contribution.

Brian in Boston get it. Our inspiration for the griffin wings on the Defenders helmet came from aspects of the winged helmet of the Philadelphia Eagles, the Memphis Pharoahs linework, the Albany Firebirds ideation and other teams who had their graphics on the front of the crown. Nice Brian.

Let's be honest. The designs are ok. But you have miles and miles to go before you can talk the talk.

Eight helmets designed in a two-month span for a new League in India in my opinion is more than walking the walk. It's a strong effort in a new marketplace of 1.2 Billion people. Give us a little credit here Panthers.

[touchdownindia]

Brian in Boston GETS it. Our inspiration for the griffin wings on the Defenders helmet came from aspects of the winged helmet of the Philadelphia Eagles, the Memphis Pharoahs linework, the Albany Firebirds ideation and other teams who had their graphics on the front of the crown. Nice Brian.

[Panthers]

TDI:

My bad. You are correct about the Eagles. I'll grant you that the time frame was short, but in today's world, it isn't unheard of. I've worked in studios with shorter turnarounds for major product launches. It is what it is.

No the Birmnigham Fire design had absolutely nothing to do with the Chicago Fire. Zero. The Chicago Fire helmet was a cool design for the time, but it was too cartoonish. Birmingham's design was very, very different(in fact I have a game worn helmet at home). It was David Boss who implemented the old gold color back into the Rams scheme and created the charging buffalo for the Bills helmet if I am not mistaking. Yes in 1973, those were major shifts. Other than the Falcons considering a white helmet for '74 and the Oilers going to a white helmet in '74, there weren't many changes/updates in the early 70's. Boss and his staff created the modern NFL. He turned Pro! magazine from just a game program into something that told the story of the league. He helped create Prolog, the yearly b & w look at the year in review. The NFL was way, way out in front of the other sports in bringing the league to the masses. As for the Seahawks helmet, you are incorrect. They had the first true wrap around design.

I'd say I'm a bit older than you, so you need to learn your history as far as the NFL goes and respect it. The Illustrated NFL website is a good place to start. Secondly, there is an article in the first-year WLAF programs about how David Boss helped design each team identity.

[Panthers]

TDI:

Also, if you want to see something revolutionary, look at the Team Mexico uniforms from the recent American football world cup. You can find the thread on this site.

[Island_Style]

TDI:

Also, if you want to see something revolutionary, look at the Team Mexico uniforms from the recent American football world cup. You can find the thread on this site.

It's the Barcelona Dragons with a couple bells and whistles.

[touchdownindia]

TDI:

I'd say I'm a bit older than you, so you need to learn your history as far as the NFL goes and respect it. The Illustrated NFL website is a good place to start. Secondly, there is an article in the first-year WLAF programs about how David Boss help design each team identity.

I will follow up with your suggestion. I love the history of sports design and who originated the logos and uniforms. I thought the work the NFL did during the '90's under Bruce Burke was outstanding overall with very few exceptions... however, the NFL in the 70's through the early '90's is not the gold standard in sports design by a long shot. The first really well designed Super Bowl logo was 1985... Super Bowl XX... before that... pedestrian at best... and few NFL uniforms changed drastically through the '70's. Yes the Rams we the exception but all Boss did was to take the color palette of Fred Gerhke in 1946 and use that color scheme for the LA Rams in 1974. Please, don't make that into more than it is... and give most of the credit to Fred.

http://tinyurl.com/42yatye

IMO. the WLAF logos and uniforms overall are just average designs. Not anything earth shaking...

http://www.oursportscentral.com/uniforms/wlafunis.html

I still think the WFL Chicago Fire helmets and uniforms were more interesting and revolutionary during the time of their launch. I am a big fan of the World Football League. Gary Davidson created so many out of the box concepts and backed it up with great sports branding solutions... This was better than the NFL uniforms coming out of LA. Bolder more distinct color combinations. Great logos. Obviously the second year when the league ran into financial troubles, things changed in part of course to money not being available.

Fire. Vulcans. Sun. Storm. Great new directions. And of course the WFL ball. Fantastic. I loved the Chicago Fire and Virgil Carter and Leroy Kelly... the WFL was to the NFL what the WHA was to the NHL, both snubbing their noses at the establishments....

http://www.oursportscentral.com/uniforms/wflunis.html

This was 15 before the WLAF...

Also, if you want to see something revolutionary, look at the Team Mexico uniforms from the recent American football world cup. You can find the thread on this site.

Thanks for the suggestion. Viva la Mexico!