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Could you lend me some input on a logo project?


Artisan219

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Alright, so here's my problem. Awhile back, I got a request to rebrand the Washington Redskins to something more politically correct. I doubt anyone really remembers my Washington Tomahawk logo, but regardless I've since revised that logo and uniform concept. I haven't posted it yet, but I will soon.

In any case, I was showing a friend of mine the Tomahawks logo, and we got into a conversation that inevitably brought up the NFL's other Native American team, the Kansas City Chiefs. For my part, I'll admit, I don't find the Chiefs as politically incorrect or as offensive with their use of Native American symbols (at least not since they've retired Warpaint), but I do have to admit that the idea of rebranding any team does pique my interest.

So I ask of you, respected forum members, what would you name a team in Kansas City if you had the option?

I admit, I don't have much knowledge of Kansas City. I know it is considered for all practically purposes the center of the country, that it has a huge history with the rail industry and the Old West, that it is the BBQ capital, and a major jazz/blues area.

I currently have vague concepts for:

  • Kansas City Railers - in reference to the historic rail industry, this is my current favorite, intending to have a locomotive logo
  • Kansas City Outlaws - in reference to Jesse James and other well-known outlaws of the Old West, I'm still shaky because "Outlaws" has been used in a lot of other leagues
  • Kansas City Comets - this doesn't really have any major connexion to KC, but it alliterates and fits with the red and yellow color scheme (was a soccer team)
  • Kansas City Cyclones - I do have to admit, I like the sound of this one, but it conflicts with an existing concept I rendered for Oklahoma City.
  • Kansas City Scouts - I would back this more, but I'd still end up using a Native American theme and I intend to make a KC Scouts logo for an NHL project anyway.

Well, those are the five ideas I've had so far. I welcome any further suggestions. I do not intend to alter the KC color scheme, and intend to stay with the red, yellow, white, and black (only sparingly), but that said, I do not have anything against color scheme suggestions.

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Railers- Way too close to Raiders.

Outlaws- Alright, but seems like that "team name from movie X"

Comets- Not bad, could be a good idea.

Cyclones- Minor Leaguish.

Scouts- GREAT. Fits the native american history and is just a nice sounding name.

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I'm from Kansas City, so maybe I can help. First of all, most people don't realize that the Chiefs aren't named after Native Americans. They were actually named the "Chiefs" in honor of former mayor Harold Roe Bartle who was mayor of Kansas City in 1963 - when he persuaded Dallas Texans owner Lamar Hunt to move the team to Kansas City. Bartle's nickname was "The Chief" due to his executive work with the Boy Scouts of America. In the past, the franchise has played up some of the association with the team name to Native Americans (you mentioned the retired mascot, Warpaint - which was a great example) but now the arrowhead logo and Arrowhead Stadium are about the only remaining ties to Native Americans. If there was ever a big push for political correctness, all they would have to do is simply change their logo and sell corporate naming rights to the stadium, and the problem is solved.

But enough about that, since that isn't what you were asking. You really covered the highlights of Kansas City pretty well. There are actually two different cities named Kansas City. The one most people refer to is the larger of the two, and it's located in Missouri. The other Kansas City is Kansas City, Kansas, which is located right across the river. The metro area has just over 2 million people, and it geographically cut right down the middle of the state line between Missouri and Kansas. There is a street that runs through the southern half of the metro called "State Line Road," which is the actual border between the two states. If you drive south on it, you're in Kansas, if you drive north, you're in Missouri. Unfortunately they don't have a catchy name for this (they don't call them Twin Cities or anything) but that could make a cool concept with the right idea.

When most people think of Kansas City, they think of barbecue. It's taken very serious here, and it's usually the first thing locals bring up when they're trying to "thump their chest" about the city. Unfortunately, BBQ doesn't lend itself well to an NFL identity. There is an independent minor league baseball team here called the Kansas City T-Bones, and they do a great job playing off the theme. Of course, you can get away with that with a minor league baseball team, but not so much with an NFL team.

We had a minor league hockey team called the Kansas City Outlaws. The name worked pretty well, but the team was only around for one or two seasons. The Comets are back as an indoor franchise (at least they were last year) but they do no advertising, and get no coverage in the local media, so most Kansas Citians probably don't even know they're back.

I don't like the name Cyclones, due to the fact that Iowa State is located about 200 miles away, and there are a lot of Iowa State grads living in KC. The University of Kansas and the University of Missouri (and to a slightly lesser extent, Kansas State) are huge here in KC. It is definitely a Big 12 (what's left of it) town, so when most people in KC hear the word "Cyclones," they immediately associate it with Iowa State. Most people here wouldn't be very happy (to say the least) with that name. You'd probably get the same reaction if you called them the Kansas City Cornhuskers, or Kansas City Sooners.

I'm really not big on the reincarnation of the name "Scouts." The old NHL team was long gone before I got here, but most people consider them to be more of an embarrassment than anything. They were a horrible team (27-110 in their only two season) with horrible ownership. That identity is better off left in the past.

Kansas City is a very big rail hub (I think the 2nd largest in the country behind Chicago) but it really isn't that noticeable to most people. It's just kind of there and it's not like it's in the news or advertised. It's more like an "oh yeah, we have that too" as opposed to something that people take much pride in.

One thing that most people don't mention - probably because it's not a set-in-stone rule - is that most of the major league franchises have (or had) some sort of a nod to leaders, or positions of power (Royals, Chiefs, Kings, Monarchs, etc.) I think if I was going to rebrand a local team, I'd try to keep that tradition alive because it's kind of unique, even if it isn't intentional.

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Railers- Way too close to Raiders.Outlaws- Alright, but seems like that "team name from movie X"Comets- Not bad, could be a good idea.Cyclones- Minor Leaguish.Scouts- GREAT. Fits the native american history and is just a nice sounding name.

I'm actually a bit surprised that I didn't notice the similarity between Raiders and Railers. I still am rather enamored of a railroad logo though. Perhaps Kansas City K-Rails? (Yes, I know that a K-rail has nothing to do with railroads.) I could do KC Trackers, but I could actually use a frontiersman logo for that.

My hesitation with Outlaws is the same as yours. It works, but it smacks of cheese factor. I can think of the Las Vegas Outlaws, Oklahoma Outlaws, Denver/Colorado Outlaws, plus as you mentioned, a slew of minor league teams. And I just don't find the same auditory appeal with Bandits. My only issue with Kansas City Scouts is that I wanted to do a new NHL logo for KC, but I could make a cavalry rider logo as opposed to a Native American logo.

As far as Outlaws, I would have liked to do Kansas City Gunslingers, but I doubt a gun logo would be well-tolerated by the NFL with gun violence on the rise among players and KC having some reputation for lawlessness. I could do KC Sheriffs, and I actually like the sound of that, but I'm not really sure how to do that with any distance from the Cowboys.

I'm from Kansas City, so maybe I can help. First of all, most people don't realize that the Chiefs aren't named after Native Americans. They were actually named the "Chiefs" in honor of former mayor Harold Roe Bartle who was mayor of Kansas City in 1963 - when he persuaded Dallas Texans owner Lamar Hunt to move the team to Kansas City. Bartle's nickname was "The Chief" due to his executive work with the Boy Scouts of America. In the past, the franchise has played up some of the association with the team name to Native Americans (you mentioned the retired mascot, Warpaint - which was a great example) but now the arrowhead logo and Arrowhead Stadium are about the only remaining ties to Native Americans. If there was ever a big push for political correctness, all they would have to do is simply change their logo and sell corporate naming rights to the stadium, and the problem is solved.But enough about that, since that isn't what you were asking. You really covered the highlights of Kansas City pretty well. There are actually two different cities named Kansas City. The one most people refer to is the larger of the two, and it's located in Missouri. The other Kansas City is Kansas City, Kansas, which is located right across the river. The metro area has just over 2 million people, and it geographically cut right down the middle of the state line between Missouri and Kansas. There is a street that runs through the southern half of the metro called "State Line Road," which is the actual border between the two states. If you drive south on it, you're in Kansas, if you drive north, you're in Missouri. Unfortunately they don't have a catchy name for this (they don't call them Twin Cities or anything) but that could make a cool concept with the right idea.When most people think of Kansas City, they think of barbecue. It's taken very serious here, and it's usually the first thing locals bring up when they're trying to "thump their chest" about the city. Unfortunately, BBQ doesn't lend itself well to an NFL identity. There is an independent minor league baseball team here called the Kansas City T-Bones, and they do a great job playing off the theme. Of course, you can get away with that with a minor league baseball team, but not so much with an NFL team. We had a minor league hockey team called the Kansas City Outlaws. The name worked pretty well, but the team was only around for one or two seasons. The Comets are back as an indoor franchise (at least they were last year) but they do no advertising, and get no coverage in the local media, so most Kansas Citians probably don't even know they're back. I don't like the name Cyclones, due to the fact that Iowa State is located about 200 miles away, and there are a lot of Iowa State grads living in KC. The University of Kansas and the University of Missouri (and to a slightly lesser extent, Kansas State) are huge here in KC. It is definitely a Big 12 (what's left of it) town, so when most people in KC hear the word "Cyclones," they immediately associate it with Iowa State. Most people here wouldn't be very happy (to say the least) with that name. You'd probably get the same reaction if you called them the Kansas City Cornhuskers, or Kansas City Sooners.I'm really not big on the reincarnation of the name "Scouts." The old NHL team was long gone before I got here, but most people consider them to be more of an embarrassment than anything. They were a horrible team (27-110 in their only two season) with horrible ownership. That identity is better off left in the past. Kansas City is a very big rail hub (I think the 2nd largest in the country behind Chicago) but it really isn't that noticeable to most people. It's just kind of there and it's not like it's in the news or advertised. It's more like an "oh yeah, we have that too" as opposed to something that people take much pride in.One thing that most people don't mention - probably because it's not a set-in-stone rule - is that most of the major league franchises have (or had) some sort of a nod to leaders, or positions of power (Royals, Chiefs, Kings, Monarchs, etc.) I think if I was going to rebrand a local team, I'd try to keep that tradition alive because it's kind of unique, even if it isn't intentional.

Thank you much for your insights. I didn't know where the Chiefs name came from following the move from Dallas, so that's good to know. I also didn't catch the trend of leadership titles. In most cases, that'd be a huge help, but with this, I'm not sure what to do with it. Following the Western theme and a nod to the late great John Wayne, I suppose I could do a Kansas City Dukes logo. Other than that, I can't think of a premiere title that isn't already trademarked in sports. (Also, with the NBA struggling to maintain in Sacramento and the new arena in KC, the Kings might be coming back.) The only BBQ-themed names that came to my mind were more fire-themed than anything else, which just worked with the red and yellow colors. This is mostly where I got KC Comets, and also KC Cinders and KC Scorchers.

Chiefs could still work if you went with a firefighter-type identity.

I actually considered this, but I wasn't sure if it'd be too cheesy. Then again, the NFL could use that to raise donations for firefighters.

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4 out of the 5 suggestions are or were teams from around the area, which I don't think would be a good idea. As a KC resident, I'll echo Ryan's thought that the rail industry is largely a pride of the past, no one really embraces it now. One other thing you could play on would be fountains, KC has quite a few. I attempted to make a logo awhile back of a fountain with some sort of "KC" in it, but am not the best artist. Maybe you could play with that for some sort of secondary logo? I'd love to see results on that. Here's an old drawing I did:

Photo10101021.png

The bottom part of the KC is supposed to be a reflection in the water of the fountain of the top jets of water.

As far as keeping red and yellow, ok that's fine. But drop the black. As I discussed in another thread, the only place the black appears is trim, and that too could and should be eliminated. I'm not sure why you made this in the logo forum instead of the concepts, unless you are somehow actually hired to come up with these changes, but good luck.

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Kansas City Sovereigns

Kansas City Crowns

Kansas City Sidewinders

Kansas City Kestrels

Kansas City Scoundrels

Kansas City Trackers

Kansas City Carnivores

Kansas City Catalysts (the Kansas-Nebraska Act precipitated the Civil War, plus KC has a history of labor riots)

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Kansas City has the Kansas City Pioneer Square monument in Westport. I think Kansas City Pioneers sounds pretty good. Also, the jazz in Kansas City is very popular, however, the Kansas City Jazz doesn't fit well and plus that reminds me more of the Utah Jazz. KC can also be known as the "city of fountains", but the KC Fountains sounds like a WNBA team. However, an fountain secondary logo could be something interesting.

Overall I like the Pioneers the best. Scouts also isn't bad, but it just reminds me of the horrible NHL team from the 70's.

Go with the Kansas City Pioneers. I would love to see a concept with this.

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I had a friend from Emporia, KS, suggest something more evocative of the Wizard of Oz. I know the Chiefs play in Missouri, but they're very big in Kansas as well, so I can kinda see some merit in this. (In very rare instances, I have heard KC dubbed as the Emerald City)

The KC Wizards have since been rebranded, but regardless, I don't want to go down that route.

That still leaves me with a few options, though.

Kansas City Scarecrows (which could work well with the red and yellow, but might come off really cheesy in the NFL)

Kansas City Warlocks (I'm surprised to find out that if the Warlocks were ever a team, it doesn't return anything in Google, and they assuredly did not play in KC.)

Kansas City Sorcerers

On the BBQ side of this argument: Kansas City Butchers, Kansas City Cleavers

And on the side of traditional ruler titles: Kansas City Regents, Kansas City Bishops, Kansas City Scepters

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Perfect by what standard? If I find something I really like, I'll go with it, but personally I have no fondness for KC Pioneers. It has little auditory appeal to me, can apply to virtually every city founded after 1800 or west of the Mississippi, and would be a little more complicated graphically than some of the other contenders. That said, I am considering KC Settlers, which would have the same logo points but with better alliteration.

Still, I find it a little odd that for such a large city, no specific titles seem to be ubiquitous. Pittsburgh had the steel industry, Massachusetts has its Revolution ties, Nashville has its "Athens of the South" motif, etc. Granted, there are a few NFL teams whose mascots make no sense with their host cities, but most of those are products of relocation. With KC, I really don't hit on much other than rail, cattle, a history of political corruption, some Wild West aspects, and world-famous BBQ. Between the Cowboys and the Texans' bull logo, I really don't want to go into the cattle motiff, and I have reservations with an Outlaw theme. The rail industry is one of the bigger point in KC, historically at least, but I'm still undersold on a name for a train logo. The BBQ concept just doesn't seem to translate to sports, and really the only ideas I got from that were more fire-themed than anything else. I want something that screams KC, or failing that, something that screams America's Heartland, and I'm just not there yet.

Edit - While the Chiefs were named for Mayor Bartle, Bartle himself was called the Chiefs because he created the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, a fake Native American tribe within the Scouts. Like I said, I really do not find Chiefs to be offensive myself, as a chief or chieftain has other connotations outside Native Americans, but the point of this thread is what, if not the Chiefs, could the team be named, and also I find it a little odd to name the whole team after an executive title (the whole point of having a chief is that there is only one at a time).

It's a little more basic, almost to absurdity, but if the Chiefs were so named for Mayor Bartle, I could just as easily name them the Kansas City Hunters for Lamar Hunt and make up two logos - a Native American hunter and a frontiers rifleman based on William Cody, who spent much of his life in the Kansas Territories and campaigned for Native American rights (not to diminish from the Buffalo Bills).

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