Hot Stove: MLB Offseason Thread

[FiddySicks]

Any Giants fans on here? What would it take for the Yankees to take Matt Cain off your hands?

Well, in a sense, A LOT. Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner and maybe Vogelsong (He may be a free agent though, not sure. I expect him back on San Francisco either way) are the starting pitchers that are pretty much off limits for the Giants. I'd even argue that keeping Cain around is the Giants' biggest priority, even over Lincecum. He's the most experienced pitcher on our staff, he had a great ERA and a stellar WHIP, and has been incredibly durable. Unless the Yankees can offer up something that is absolutely mind blowing, it's not going to happen. There are are quite a few guys on this team that are absolutely essential to this roster, and only one, may be two of them are not pitchers. The Giants need hitting BAD, but they're more likely to overspend in free agency this year (especially considering the available players) for a bat than trade away the guy who is arguably the anchor of this whole entire team.

Now if your looking for a guy like Jonathan Sanchez, then we can talk. We'll even throw in Zito too

The Giants have the following players who are arbitration eligible:

Tim Lincecum, Jonathan Sanchez, Pablo Sandoval, Sergio Romo, Ryan Vogelsong (who is 34).

If the Giants' corporate board was not happy with Bill Neukom spending money, then they will not spend money for more bats. This season was the largest attendance at ATT Park ever, so they get money.

Not exactly. The board wasn't upset that Neukom spent money, in fact they gave him the clearance to spend to keep this team competitive. The problem they had was more with the fact that Neukom was giving insane amounts of money to guys like Aubrey Huff without first consulting with the rest of ownership. That and they weren't too thrilled with the salary he was getting in return for his duties.

Of the players you mentioned as well, the only one the Giants may try to part ways with is Sanchez. The rest are well worth what they'll receive, and the extra revenue should help this team be able to afford those guys plus try to obtain a bat. It's not like this team is pinching pennies like their rivals across the bay, they gave Zito 126 million freaking dollars, after all.

[pmoehrin]

It's not like this team is pinching pennies like their rivals across the bay, they gave Zito 126 million freaking dollars, after all.

I cannot believe he's still under contract for two more years with a third year option that has zero chance of getting picked up that will still wind up costing the Giants $7 million.

I don't know what the Giants were thinking by making that signing because there were red flags that he wasn't going to be the guy he was in Oakland even before the deal was made. I remember reading articles about him saying the Mets were turned off by the fact that Zito viewed himself as a musician who happened to pitch rather then a pitcher who happened to play guitar.

Anyone who says they don't care about baseball that much, do not sign that guy, aka what I like to call the Adam Dunn rule of free agency.

As for the Giants, I don't anticipate them doing much of anything. Just resigning guys is going to put them as one of the highest payrolls in baseball and I think that's all they are going to do. Maybe they'll sign a Rafael Furcal or a Jay Gibbons to one or two year deals, but there's not going to be that many hitters out there in terms of free agency this year.

[Dexter Morgan]

It's not like this team is pinching pennies like their rivals across the bay, they gave Zito 126 million freaking dollars, after all.

I cannot believe he's still under contract for two more years with a third year option that has zero chance of getting picked up that will still wind up costing the Giants $7 million.

I don't know what the Giants were thinking by making that signing because there were red flags that he wasn't going to be the guy he was in Oakland even before the deal was made. I remember reading articles about him saying the Mets were turned off by the fact that Zito viewed himself as a musician who happened to pitch rather then a pitcher who happened to play guitar.

Anyone who says they don't care about baseball that much, do not sign that guy, aka what I like to call the Adam Dunn rule of free agency.

you think that's bad? Yankees have 6 more years and $143 million still invested in Alex Rodriguez. Plus $30 million more in bonuses for home run milestones. Tainted milestones I might add. A player who's production has declined, now has trouble staying healthy, and is now on the wrong side of 30. Oh joy!

[pmoehrin]

It's not like this team is pinching pennies like their rivals across the bay, they gave Zito 126 million freaking dollars, after all.

I cannot believe he's still under contract for two more years with a third year option that has zero chance of getting picked up that will still wind up costing the Giants $7 million.

I don't know what the Giants were thinking by making that signing because there were red flags that he wasn't going to be the guy he was in Oakland even before the deal was made. I remember reading articles about him saying the Mets were turned off by the fact that Zito viewed himself as a musician who happened to pitch rather then a pitcher who happened to play guitar.

Anyone who says they don't care about baseball that much, do not sign that guy, aka what I like to call the Adam Dunn rule of free agency.

you think that's bad? Yankees have 6 more years and $143 million still invested in Alex Rodriguez. Plus $30 million more in bonuses for home run milestones. Tainted milestones I might add. A player who's production has declined, now has trouble staying healthy, and is now on the wrong side of 30. Oh joy!

Pretty any team that signed a free agent to a long term deal before the 2008 offseason is bad a contract, because salaries have just flatlined since then, and teams in general are no longer as aggressive on the free agent market as they once were and in turn have become much more aggressive about keeping the players they already have.

[Dexter Morgan]

It's not like this team is pinching pennies like their rivals across the bay, they gave Zito 126 million freaking dollars, after all.

I cannot believe he's still under contract for two more years with a third year option that has zero chance of getting picked up that will still wind up costing the Giants $7 million.

I don't know what the Giants were thinking by making that signing because there were red flags that he wasn't going to be the guy he was in Oakland even before the deal was made. I remember reading articles about him saying the Mets were turned off by the fact that Zito viewed himself as a musician who happened to pitch rather then a pitcher who happened to play guitar.

Anyone who says they don't care about baseball that much, do not sign that guy, aka what I like to call the Adam Dunn rule of free agency.

you think that's bad? Yankees have 6 more years and $143 million still invested in Alex Rodriguez. Plus $30 million more in bonuses for home run milestones. Tainted milestones I might add. A player who's production has declined, now has trouble staying healthy, and is now on the wrong side of 30. Oh joy!

Pretty any team that signed a free agent to a long term deal before the 2008 offseason is bad a contract, because salaries have just flatlined since then, and teams in general are no longer as aggressive on the free agent market as they once were and in turn have become much more aggressive about keeping the players they already have.

I dunno, there have been plenty of huge and even shocking contracts giving the last few seasons, Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth namely.

Joe Mauer- 8 years/$184M (2011-18)

Troy Tulowitzki- 10 years/$157.75M (2011-20)

Carl Crawford- 7 years/$142M (2011-17)

Adrian Gonzalez- 7 years/$154M (2012-18)

Jayson Werth- 7 years/$126M (2011-17)

Ryan Howard- 5 years/$125M (2012-16)

Cliff Lee- 5 years/$120M

[dfwabel]

It seems that CJ Wilson and Buehrle are the only pitchers who are at least a free agent #2 starter money.

[Dexter Morgan]

Anyone have any predictions on starting pitcher who will be dealt? Slim pickings in the free agent market, have to think a team like the Yankees will be looking to trade for a top end starter. Are the Dodgers ownership problems big enough for them to dangle Kershaw? how about King Felix? Considering how bad the Mariners are, don't they have to consider dealing him?

[pmoehrin]

I dunno, there have been plenty of huge and even shocking contracts giving the last few seasons, Carl Crawford and Jayson Werth namely.

Joe Mauer- 8 years/$184M (2011-18)

Troy Tulowitzki- 10 years/$157.75M (2011-20)

Carl Crawford- 7 years/$142M (2011-17)

Adrian Gonzalez- 7 years/$154M (2012-18)

Jayson Werth- 7 years/$126M (2011-17)

Ryan Howard- 5 years/$125M (2012-16)

Cliff Lee- 5 years/$120M

For Mauer, Tulo, Gonzalez, Howard and Lee that was market price. The only two guys that have been disasters are Crawford and Werth out of that bunch. Mauer to some extent as well, but I don't think anyone really saw his demise coming that quickly.

As for the Wilson, Buehrle comment, I like C.J. Wilson and think the Rangers will keep him. He's the closest thing they have to a number one which they were counting on Brandon Webb for but who knows if he will ever come back at this point.

Buehrle I'm not so sure will stay with the Sox. I don't think he's anymore then a decent number three on a good starting staff who's best days are behind him. If he's your best option, you don't have a good starting staff. He was the White Sox best option and they finished 8th in the AL for ERA for starting pitching. The best thing he can do for you is eat up innings, but I know there's going to be at least a couple of GM's out there that have wanted this guy for years and will jump at the opprutunity to get him and therefore drive up the price for him way too high.

That's someone I could see going to a big market team like the Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs or Angels because I think one of those teams GM's really likes Mark Buehlre if not all four, and I think the price is going to be driven up to the point where only those teams will be able to afford him. Someone is going to pay him like a number one starter and is going to be disappionted to find out that he's just not that good. Nice pitcher, not someone you can build a rotation around, but I think alot of people think of him as someone you can build a rotation around.

Also I don't see the Mariners trading Felix Hernandez. They are going to ask the world for him as they should. I don't think they were ever that serious about it and still don't. Unless some team out there is willing to part ways with half of their farm system to get him I don't see that happening. Closest team I'd say to being capable of doing that would be the Giants. They have a ton of prospects and the idea of having Lincecum, King Felix and Matt Cain as your 1-2-3 has got to be very appealing.

[TheOldRoman]

Anyone have any predictions on starting pitcher who will be dealt? Slim pickings in the free agent market, have to think a team like the Yankees will be looking to trade for a top end starter. Are the Dodgers ownership problems big enough for them to dangle Kershaw? how about King Felix? Considering how bad the Mariners are, don't they have to consider dealing him?

John Danks is likely getting moved. The kid has ace potential, but has been stuck in the mud the last three years and hasn't taken the next step. Someone will overpay for him.

[mania]

Also I don't see the Mariners trading Felix Hernandez. They are going to ask the world for him as they should. I don't think they were ever that serious about it and still don't. Unless some team out there is willing to part ways with half of their farm system to get him I don't see that happening. Closest team I'd say to being capable of doing that would be the Giants. They have a ton of prospects and the idea of having Lincecum, King Felix and Matt Cain as your 1-2-3 has got to be very appealing.

The Giants in no way have the horses to pull off a deal for Felix. Absolutely not. They had two really well regarded prospects in the system, and one of those is in New York now. Gary Brown plus whatever's on the scrap heap will NOT be enough to make a move.

I'd say, if a team is going to trade for him, it might be the Jays, the Braves or the Rangers. The Jays really want to make a splash, the Braves will surely look to reload after coming so close last year, and the Rangers might be looking for a replacement for CJ Wilson. They are all Top 10 (arguably Top 5) systems, with the Jays being the best system in the league. Most of the other really good farm systems are too far away from competing or not really in the mindset of adding payroll (see: the Rays).

[Cujo]

Theo to the Cubs is now official. $15 mill over 5 years.

Okay. Let the makeover begin! (Still can't believe the Cubs didn't fvck this one up)

[FiddySicks]

Also I don't see the Mariners trading Felix Hernandez. They are going to ask the world for him as they should. I don't think they were ever that serious about it and still don't. Unless some team out there is willing to part ways with half of their farm system to get him I don't see that happening. Closest team I'd say to being capable of doing that would be the Giants. They have a ton of prospects and the idea of having Lincecum, King Felix and Matt Cain as your 1-2-3 has got to be very appealing.

The Giants in no way have the horses to pull off a deal for Felix. Absolutely not. They had two really well regarded prospects in the system, and one of those is in New York now. Gary Brown plus whatever's on the scrap heap will NOT be enough to make a move.

Yeah especially considering they have about ZERO need for starting pitching as well, it wouldn't make a lick of sense. Madison Bumgarner is the guy who the Giants expect to pitch well enough to be the third guy in that rotation. His rookie year he was brilliant, capping off the season by schooling that awesome Rangers lineup to give San Francisco a commanding 3-1 series lead. Last year he struggled pretty bad at times, but when he was good he was lights out and by the end of the year he had hit his stride again and was a force on the mound. Really, the Giants have such a plethora of starters that it's by far their biggest asset. Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Sanchez, and Zito if he can regain a third of what he once was (I highly doubt it) would even make a quality fifth starter. Dealing Wheeler wasn't the bonehead move I once thought it was considering just how deep the Giants are in that spot, if they can resign Beltran for a decent deal.

[bosrs1]

Theo to the Cubs is now official. $15 mill over 5 years.

Okay. Let the makeover begin! (Still can't believe the Cubs didn't fvck this one up)

Still can't believe the Red Sox let him go. What a bunch of idiots. Who do you think they call up to replace him? My money is on the guy they called in 2002 and even hired, Billy Beane. The things that kept Beane in Oakland last time, his family, have grown up. And on top of that he's got to be tired of the never ending stadium/cheap ass owner situation in Oakland.

[The_Admiral]

Epstein is largely a checkbook GM. He won't have that here. Just another disappointment.

[Dexter Morgan]

Theo to the Cubs is now official. $15 mill over 5 years.

Okay. Let the makeover begin! (Still can't believe the Cubs didn't fvck this one up)

Still can't believe the Red Sox let him go. What a bunch of idiots. Who do you think they call up to replace him? My money is on the guy they called in 2002 and even hired, Billy Beane. The things that kept Beane in Oakland last time, his family, have grown up. And on top of that he's got to be tired of the never ending stadium/cheap ass owner situation in Oakland.

In house hire, Ben Cherington

[Cujo]

Epstein is largely a checkbook GM. He won't have that here. Just another disappointment.

Pretty sure someone as 'elite' as Theo Epstein would only join the Cubs if they assured them that he wouldn't be pinching pennies to put a team together. A lot will be said with what he's decide to do with the team's manager. Quade's gotta go, and I think Theo knows that.

As a pessimistic Cubs fan, I actually see ths hiring as the glass being half full.

[TheOldRoman]

Epstein is largely a checkbook GM. He won't have that here. Just another disappointment.

Pretty sure someone as 'elite' as Theo Epstein would only join the Cubs if they assured them that he wouldn't be pinching pennies to put a team together. A lot will be said with what he's decide to do with the team's manager. Quade's gotta go, and I think Theo knows that.

As a pessimistic Cubs fan, I actually see ths hiring as the glass being half full.

I think Admiral meant that 1) The Cubs don't make as much money as the Red Sox to begin with and the Tribune pretty much maximized all the revenue they could from the team; and 2) Ricketts got in way over his head and overpaid for the team, so payroll will be down over the next few years.

I don't know who would be a better hire for the Cubs, though. He was the best candidate out of those available with experience in the financial situation closest to what the Cubs have. I mean, even if they got Freidman from the Rays, who's to say he doesn't get stars in his eyes when presented with a big payroll and make terrible decisions? Omar Minaya looked like a really good GM for a time while he was scratching and clawing to keep the Expos relevant, but he was a disaster in New York.

[dfwabel]

Houston to the AL West? First a Gammons tweet, not a more heat.

[bosrs1]

Houston to the AL West? First a Gammons tweet, not a more heat.

Doesn't seem to be much backing his assertion other than the same speculation that was rampant over the summer. But then I wouldn't expect anything less from a blog. Sources are never their strong suit.

[The_Admiral]

This is gonna be so funny when the Cubs get McGinnised. Turns out we don't have a GM after all. But we've got bison burgers!!!