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Say it ain't so, Joe


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Penn State has but one option, and that is to shutter its football program for good, and the NCAA needs to bar anyone associated with the program from college athletics, period. Sorry, but when you are even accused of doing things that are claimed here, you don't deserve to be playing intercollegiate athletics.

Accused is not Convicted; they are 2 different things. OJ Was accused of killing his wife, but he was never convicted.

And yet, when you're accused of these things, you're guilty in the public eye. I'd rather have teams that don't have these accusations.

Not necessarily... The public eye cannot convict without the evidence to prove that an act occurred. Trust me on this one, I have seen where evidence could not be provided and the guilty walked free even though everyone knew he did the crime. Evidence can make or break a case....I say we just wait and see what happens.

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Sandusky is a disgusting, vile excuse for a human being. I couldn't even begin to imagine something like this happening at such a huge university with very little done to stop it, but here we are.

Secondly, I know this is trivial, but I think Penn State football is done for a very long time. Firstly, Paterno needs to either resign or be fired. He did not do nearly enough to stop it, especially considering the sway he has at the university. Secondly, what recruit is going to want to come to Penn State now? As far as public opinion goes, they are no longer "Linebacker U", the traditional, model football program. They are the school with the athletic department that covered up pedophilia. Good luck getting any big-name recruit or high-profile coach to come to a school with that kind of mark on their legacy.

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Penn State has but one option, and that is to shutter its football program for good, and the NCAA needs to bar anyone associated with the program from college athletics, period. Sorry, but when you are even accused of doing things that are claimed here, you don't deserve to be playing intercollegiate athletics.

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Sandusky is a disgusting, vile excuse for a human being. I couldn't even begin to imagine something like this happening at such a huge university with very little done to stop it, but here we are.

Secondly, I know this is trivial, but I think Penn State football is done for a very long time. Firstly, Paterno needs to either resign or be fired. He did not do nearly enough to stop it, especially considering the sway he has at the university. Secondly, what recruit is going to want to come to Penn State now? As far as public opinion goes, they are no longer "Linebacker U", the traditional, model football program. They are the school with the athletic department that covered up pedophilia. Good luck getting any big-name recruit or high-profile coach to come to a school with that kind of mark on their legacy.

There is no doubt in my mind that this will tarnish the football program for quite some time. No recruit is going to want to attend Penn State unless a complete overhaul is done with the whole football athletics program.

Sandusky is a vile man that has openly admitted sexual contact with a minor and he better hope the boys in prison don't give him the "special treatment."

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First these:

Be careful of throwing stones through someone's glass house, because you might not want them throwing those same stones through your glass house.

Accused is not Convicted; they are 2 different things. OJ Was accused of killing his wife, but he was never convicted.

Then this:

Sandusky is a vile man that has openly admitted sexual contact with a minor and he better hope the boys in prison don't give him the "special treatment."

Wait, what about "wait for the evidence" and "glass houses"?

We know he did it, we know that Paterno was given a reliable report, and we know that the entire Penn State administration (Paterno included) let him continue to bring young boys onto the campus.

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I learned something in school a few years ago, and while I can't remember it perfectly (not sure if it was literary or historical, or both), it kinda fits here. In life, leaders either go down in scandal and corruption, or they die first. Paterno I think is basically the perfect example of this.

I think that's a bit glib.

Not every leader eventually enables pedophiles.

Enabling pedophiles i think is a scandal...

That's essentially the point I was trying to make. It has nothing to do with the nature of the specific scandal, but how increasingly predisposed one becomes to it when one lasts as long as he did.

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I think my perception on how I view the icons of a sport has changed now. If Penn State could go down with something as heinous as this, would it be that surprising if another college (or pro organization) went down with something equally as perverse?

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willmorris is being silly in calling for a lifetime ban of all Penn State athletics, but I don't think a one-year suspension for the football program--with all players allowed to transfer without penalty--would be out of order. They need to clear everybody out and just disappear for a while, you know?

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Sandusky is a disgusting, vile excuse for a human being. I couldn't even begin to imagine something like this happening at such a huge university with very little done to stop it, but here we are.

Secondly, I know this is trivial, but I think Penn State football is done for a very long time. Firstly, Paterno needs to either resign or be fired. He did not do nearly enough to stop it, especially considering the sway he has at the university. Secondly, what recruit is going to want to come to Penn State now? As far as public opinion goes, they are no longer "Linebacker U", the traditional, model football program. They are the school with the athletic department that covered up pedophilia. Good luck getting any big-name recruit or high-profile coach to come to a school with that kind of mark on their legacy.

There is no doubt in my mind that this will tarnish the football program for quite some time. No recruit is going to want to attend Penn State unless a complete overhaul is done with the whole football athletics program.

Sandusky is a vile man that has openly admitted sexual contact with a minor and he better hope the boys in prison don't give him the "special treatment."

Sandusky will get whats coming to him in prison. I don't know much about criminals, but I do know they have a code so to speak, and they don't take too kindly to rapists and pedo's and all the above. It would not shock me at all if he is dead within the next year, either because of his own-doing or someone in jail taking "justice" into their own hands.

People might make jokes that "Ohh, Sandusky will LOVE the shower scene in prison!"... but I don't think it'll be like that at all, he's gonna get his ass beat regularly.

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willmorris is being silly in calling for a lifetime ban of all Penn State athletics, but I don't think a one-year suspension for the football program--with all players allowed to transfer without penalty--would be out of order. They need to clear everybody out and just disappear for a while, you know?

That doesn't sound unreasonable. They've pretty much given the death penalty to themselves anyway with this scandal, since now you'd have to be totally desperate as a player or coach to even consider Penn State.

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Sandusky will get whats coming to him in prison. I don't know much about criminals, but I do know they have a code so to speak, and they don't take too kindly to rapists and pedo's and all the above. It would not shock me at all if he is dead within the next year, either because of his own-doing or someone in jail taking "justice" into their own hands.

People might make jokes that "Ohh, Sandusky will LOVE the shower scene in prison!"... but I don't think it'll be like that at all, he's gonna get his ass beat regularly.

I hate to get in the way of a good Hollywood script here but... for better or worse (depends on how you look at it I guess) prisons take measures to see that the pervs are protected from "jailhouse justice." It's highly unlikely that Sandusky will spend any time among the "general population."

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Sandusky will get whats coming to him in prison. I don't know much about criminals, but I do know they have a code so to speak, and they don't take too kindly to rapists and pedo's and all the above. It would not shock me at all if he is dead within the next year, either because of his own-doing or someone in jail taking "justice" into their own hands.

People might make jokes that "Ohh, Sandusky will LOVE the shower scene in prison!"... but I don't think it'll be like that at all, he's gonna get his ass beat regularly.

I hate to get in the way of a good Hollywood script here but... for better or worse (depends on how you look at it I guess) prisons take measures to see that the pervs are protected from "jailhouse justice." It's highly unlikely that Sandusky will spend any time among the "general population."

Yeah, he's not going to Shawshank.

Though, he did say "I wish I was dead" when confronted by one of the victims' mothers back in 1998 (or was it 02? I can't remember) so I wouldn't be surprised to see him take care of himself.

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willmorris is being silly in calling for a lifetime ban of all Penn State athletics, but I don't think a one-year suspension for the football program--with all players allowed to transfer without penalty--would be out of order. They need to clear everybody out and just disappear for a while, you know?

Agreed, but I'd up it to five years. A lifetime/permanent ban is just to out there, but half a decade should be enough to both send a clear message that this sort of thing won't be tolerated and for Penn State to take the proper measures in purging the program of those responsible and start the rebuilding process.

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Sandusky will get whats coming to him in prison. I don't know much about criminals, but I do know they have a code so to speak, and they don't take too kindly to rapists and pedo's and all the above. It would not shock me at all if he is dead within the next year, either because of his own-doing or someone in jail taking "justice" into their own hands.

People might make jokes that "Ohh, Sandusky will LOVE the shower scene in prison!"... but I don't think it'll be like that at all, he's gonna get his ass beat regularly.

I hate to get in the way of a good Hollywood script here but... for better or worse (depends on how you look at it I guess) prisons take measures to see that the pervs are protected from "jailhouse justice." It's highly unlikely that Sandusky will spend any time among the "general population."

Yeah, he's not going to Shawshank.

Though, he did say "I wish I was dead" when confronted by one of the victims' mothers back in 1998 (or was it 02? I can't remember) so I wouldn't be surprised to see him take care of himself.

Well that may be hard if he is under suicide watch at the local jail.

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willmorris is being silly in calling for a lifetime ban of all Penn State athletics, but I don't think a one-year suspension for the football program--with all players allowed to transfer without penalty--would be out of order. They need to clear everybody out and just disappear for a while, you know?

Agreed, but I'd up it to five years. A lifetime/permanent ban is just to out there, but half a decade should be enough to both send a clear message that this sort of thing won't be tolerated and for Penn State to take the proper measures in purging the program of those responsible and start the rebuilding process.

I don't think Penn State should be subjected to any suspension of their football program (or other sports) as long as they absolutely clean house with everyone involved. When they have a new AD and football staff next year, there's no reason that they shouldn't be allowed to continue playing. They've pretty much given themselves the death penalty because of this anyway. Any player worth anything is going to transfer and one of their top recruits already said he's crossed Penn State off his list.

Not saying that will happen because the NCAA rules about sanctions for violations are a little unfair to begin with. A coach can go and rack up recruiting violations and move onto another school while his old school gets the penalty for what he's done there.

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One of my closest friends from PSU who is a NUT about the program raises this scenario (only reading what we all have access to of course, no inside info).

- McQueary allegedly sees the act occurring. (Ignore for now that he doesn't take any action to stop it, or doesn't call the cops, we've rehashed that ad-nauseum already).

- McQueary takes it to his dad, he's distraught. He then starts it up the chain of command.

- He's an unpaid grad assistant and this time. There are rumblings out there his family was tight-knit w/ Sandusky's and other football higher-ups. This is the spring of 2002. For the 2002 season he's now got a paid position on the staff, and quickly moved up. How did that happen?

- Probably a cover-up. Here's a reward for keeping quiet.

>> Now, the million dollar question: Who shot him up the totem pole? If it's Paterno, ballgame.

Also, I heard that instead of standing and singing the alma mater before the game vs. Nebraska on Saturday, that everyone is going to turn their backs to the field while seated and not say a word during it.

I'd also like to re-iterate that this has nothing to do with the NCAA. It's a sick bastard who should be allowed to live eternally only so he can be tortured mercifully into perpetuity by the most painful things imaginable, and even that would be getting off easy.

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Is it possible that this doesn't forever ruin the program? While I agree that there should be a "best interests" clause that allows for sanctions even if there's no technical conference or NCAA violation, if they get away, and start anew with a new coach (for argument's sake ONLY let's say Urban Meyer) (again - just for the purposes of this discussion), new AD, new president, etc., would a recruit or their family really have reservations of signing on there? If all of the names involved in the cover-up come out and are gone, other than the horrible memories and association, would it really be that far fetched that they'd be back to having good recruiting classes relatively soon? It could be seen as an opportunity for a new administration to somehow make a positive out of everything and start programs (that wouldn't be run by pedophiles) for kids and/or donate buttloads of money to child welfare groups or something.

First off, I don't think any name coach would want to take over next year. Someone like Meyer might want to be the 2nd or 3rd coach after Paterno, but nobody wants to be the first. This is even more true after this news came out. But to your other point, I can't imagine this story scrubbing clean. Think of it like this, would you buy a house if you knew a dozen people had been murdered in it? Sure, they painted and changed the carpet, but it would still be weird knowing that people were killed there. That's an extreme example, but I think there are parallels. I don't know that the stigma will ever leave the university.

That's actually exactly what I was thinking about when I was typing that out. It's an extreme, but fair comparison. I wouldn't really want to attend and use facilities in which the rapes may have taken place.

As for sanctions, I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish. Anyone involved will be gone, and the only ones who will suffer will be the current players and whoever new takes over. It's not really right to teach a lesson to someone who didn't do anything wrong.

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I think my perception on how I view the icons of a sport has changed now. If Penn State could go down with something as heinous as this, would it be that surprising if another college (or pro organization) went down with something equally as perverse?

Quite frankly, college athletics has been screwed up since it's inception. I think every program has a secret to hide. Honestly, I'm surprised there have been no allegations of Oregon taking take "a little bit too much money" from Nike. Hell, I bet they've given recruits plenty of free stuff. No sane person can honestly believe Oregon got to where they are on on field success alone, right?

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