Say it ain't so, Joe

[Viper]

Penn State has but one option, and that is to shutter its football program for good, and the NCAA needs to bar anyone associated with the program from college athletics, period. Sorry, but when you are even accused of doing things that are claimed here, you don't deserve to be playing intercollegiate athletics.

Accused is not Convicted; they are 2 different things. OJ Was accused of killing his wife, but he was never convicted.

And yet, when you're accused of these things, you're guilty in the public eye. I'd rather have teams that don't have these accusations.

Not necessarily... The public eye cannot convict without the evidence to prove that an act occurred. Trust me on this one, I have seen where evidence could not be provided and the guilty walked free even though everyone knew he did the crime. Evidence can make or break a case....I say we just wait and see what happens.

I can't believe I'm taking willmorris's side here, but I believe by "the public eye" he means "public opinion". OJ may have gone free but the public stigma of his murder accusation never went away. Indeed, when he finally went away for robbery many people took it as overdue justice for the murder. I'm afraid the same will be true of Penn State football.

Meanwhile on a local Milwaukee radio show, they just reported that the number of known victims is now up to twenty.

[TFoA]

I can't even think about this story w/o damn near ralphing. How this was allowed to go on for this long, with 20 or so victims, with eyewitness accounts, and most of all, with people knowing damn well what was going on is crazy. I don't really care at this point about what type of position anybody in that program currently holds. It could be JoePa, it could be the towel boy. If you knew about this and didn't notify the police, you've gotta go. Simple as that, IMO.

But, man...how vile is this Sandusky guy? You start a program for at-risk youth only to use that as a front to prey upon kids? Sick sick sick sick SICK.

[rams80]

This is truly sad way to see Joe Pa go down, but it is his own fault they should have stopped it when they first found out and it would have only effected Sandusky now by covering for him they are all tarnished. This wont hurt Penn State for 10-15 years this will forever ruin the program. I predict with in five years they will become the Big Ten's punching bag and will be that for the next 20-30 years. They will essentially become Temple.

Is it possible that this doesn't forever ruin the program? While I agree that there should be a "best interests" clause that allows for sanctions even if there's no technical conference or NCAA violation, if they get away, and start anew with a new coach (for argument's sake ONLY let's say Urban Meyer) (again - just for the purposes of this discussion), new AD, new president, etc., would a recruit or their family really have reservations of signing on there? If all of the names involved in the cover-up come out and are gone, other than the horrible memories and association, would it really be that far fetched that they'd be back to having good recruiting classes relatively soon? It could be seen as an opportunity for a new administration to somehow make a positive out of everything and start programs (that wouldn't be run by pedophiles) for kids and/or donate buttloads of money to child welfare groups or something.

I think that they can recover following an athletic department purge too. Some of you folks seem to be really underestimating the ADD and memories of your standard Americans. And really, REALLY underestimating the ADD and memories of your average high school athlete. Yeah they're going to have some negative recruiting problems for awhile, but its not like somebody can completely push out Penn State in the mid-Atlantic college football landscape either. Pitt and Maryland are too wrapped up in their own internal mediocrity and non-existent fanbases and Ohio State can only sign so many players.

EDIT-Look at it this way: Baylor basketball had a player get murdered by his own teammate less than a decade ago and despite that and them, well, being Baylor they made the Elite Eight in 2010.

[neo_prankster]

Pedos and rapists shouldn't be allowed special protection in prison.

When Paterno retires, we're all gonna say "good riddance" because of these allegations and his failure to take action.

Any high school athlete with a brain should not sign with Penn State, not even if their parents went there.

Does anyone think PS was trying to be evasive by cancelling today's press conference?

[Sodboy13]

Meanwhile on a local Milwaukee radio show, they just reported that the number of known victims is now up to twenty.

Probably referring to this story, and here I feel the need to make an important designation that may get lost in the headlines. We're talking about somewhere between eight and twelve possible victims that have come forward since yesterday's presser. Odds are that the police haven't even had time yet to start an investigation with any of them yet to vaildate their stories. Wait and see until the police start officially adding alleged victims.

Whatever the number of alleged victims ends up being, I think it's strongly likely that number will be far less than half of the kids Sandusky actually messed with. What a truly horrid, evil person. He set up a charity designed to funnel young boys toward him in a fashion that would earn him praise and protection in the public eye. That is calculating and premeditated to say the least.

[dfwabel]

willmorris is being silly in calling for a lifetime ban of all Penn State athletics, but I don't think a one-year suspension for the football program--with all players allowed to transfer without penalty--would be out of order. They need to clear everybody out and just disappear for a while, you know?

Agreed, but I'd up it to five years. A lifetime/permanent ban is just to out there, but half a decade should be enough to both send a clear message that this sort of thing won't be tolerated and for Penn State to take the proper measures in purging the program of those responsible and start the rebuilding process.

I don't think Penn State should be subjected to any suspension of their football program (or other sports) as long as they absolutely clean house with everyone involved. When they have a new AD and football staff next year, there's no reason that they shouldn't be allowed to continue playing. They've pretty much given themselves the death penalty because of this anyway. Any player worth anything is going to transfer and one of their top recruits already said he's crossed Penn State off his list.

Not saying that will happen because the NCAA rules about sanctions for violations are a little unfair to begin with. A coach can go and rack up recruiting violations and move onto another school while his old school gets the penalty for what he's done there.

Institutional Control, in this case, is defined as:

2.1 THE PRINCIPLE OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTRO L AND RESPONSIBILITY

2.1.1 Responsibility for Control. [*] It is the responsibility of each member institution to control its intercollegiate athletics program in compliance with the rules and regulations of the Association. The institution's president or chancellor is responsible for the administration of all aspects of the athletics program, including approval

of the budget and audit of all expenditures. (Revised: 3/8/06)

2.1.2 Scope of Responsibility. [*] The institution's responsibility for the conduct of its intercollegiate athletics program includes responsibility for the actions of its staff members and for the actions of any other individual or organization engaged in activities promoting the athletics interests of the institution.

2.4 THE PRINCIPLE OF SPORTSMANSHIP AND ETHICAL CONDUCT [*]

For intercollegiate athletics to promote the character development of participants, to enhance the integrity of

higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these

athletics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, fairness, civility, honesty and

responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum

of activities affecting the athletics program. It is the responsibility of each institution to: (Revised: 1/9/96)

(a) Establish policies for sportsmanship and ethical conduct in intercollegiate athletics consistent with the educational

mission and goals of the institution; and (Adopted: 1/9/96)

Educate, on a continuing basis, all constituencies about the policies in Constitution 2.4-(a). (Adopted: 1/9/96)

Both of those cannot really be determined by the NCAA until the trials for the executives are complete regarding both perjury and failure to report.

[Dexter Morgan]

http://twitter.com/#!/ryanstetz/status/134065383677247488

Penn States linebackers can stop the run but they can't stop unwanted anal penetration.

[Punch]

Penn States linebackers can stop the run but they can't stop unwanted anal penetration.

That's a tad disrespectful to the innocent players and victims, don't you think?

[Lights Out]

Penn States linebackers can stop the run but they can't stop unwanted anal penetration.

Wow, seriously?

[Lights Out]

As for sanctions, I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish. Anyone involved will be gone, and the only ones who will suffer will be the current players and whoever new takes over. It's not really right to teach a lesson to someone who didn't do anything wrong.

I think we all agree that the athletic department and specifically the football program should face consequences for this. Sadly, that's the only reasonable way for the NCAA to punish schools. As long as they allow players to transfer without losing eligibility, it won't even hurt the players that much.

[BBTV]

As for sanctions, I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish. Anyone involved will be gone, and the only ones who will suffer will be the current players and whoever new takes over. It's not really right to teach a lesson to someone who didn't do anything wrong.

I think we all agree that the athletic department and specifically the football program should face consequences for this. Sadly, that's the only reasonable way for the NCAA to punish schools. As long as they allow players to transfer without losing eligibility, it won't even hurt the players that much.

Unless they actually like the school and want to continue on the path they're on academically. I'm sure not all of them are "NFL or bust". I don't see why they should face consequences if everyone who did anything wrong is gone. It's not like a "pay for play" thing where the players had some blame in it. I'm not exactly sure what message is being sent, and who they'd be trying to teach a lesson to.

[Billy B]

As for sanctions, I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish. Anyone involved will be gone, and the only ones who will suffer will be the current players and whoever new takes over. It's not really right to teach a lesson to someone who didn't do anything wrong.

I think we all agree that the athletic department and specifically the football program should face consequences for this. Sadly, that's the only reasonable way for the NCAA to punish schools. As long as they allow players to transfer without losing eligibility, it won't even hurt the players that much.

I don't agree that Penn State should face any consequences from this. Assuming they completely rebuild the football staff and get a new athletic director, I don't think they should face any other penalties. Doing that would only be punishing people that had nothing to do with what you'd be punishing them for.

[rams80]

As for sanctions, I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish. Anyone involved will be gone, and the only ones who will suffer will be the current players and whoever new takes over. It's not really right to teach a lesson to someone who didn't do anything wrong.

I think we all agree that the athletic department and specifically the football program should face consequences for this. Sadly, that's the only reasonable way for the NCAA to punish schools. As long as they allow players to transfer without losing eligibility, it won't even hurt the players that much.

And completely rebuilding your athletic department administration and football staff isn't a bad enough consequence? That's going to hurt, just a little.

[Sodboy13]

From Deadspin. Emphasis added mine.

"It's hard for me to tell you how much this means to me. I've lived for this place, and I've lived for people like you guys and girls, and I'm just so happy to see that you could feel so strongly about us and about your school. The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. Tough life, when people do certain things to you. Anyway, you've been great. Everything's great, all right."

"Whatever they want to say." And so it begins.

"Certain things." Like sodomizing you against your will before you've hit puberty.

Paterno is either unthinkably oblivious to everything, or disgustingly loyal to his ol' pal Jerry.

[Viper]

From Deadspin. Emphasis added mine.

"It's hard for me to tell you how much this means to me. I've lived for this place, and I've lived for people like you guys and girls, and I'm just so happy to see that you could feel so strongly about us and about your school. The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. Tough life, when people do certain things to you. Anyway, you've been great. Everything's great, all right."

"Whatever they want to say." And so it begins.

"Certain things." Like sodomizing you against your will before you've hit puberty.

Paterno is either unthinkably oblivious to everything, or disgustingly loyal to his ol' pal Jerry.

The video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JXoXdIJQ7I

[rams80]

Paterno is either unthinkably oblivious to everything, or disgustingly loyal to his ol' pal Jerry.

Are we sure it can't be both?

[Lights Out]

Paterno is either unthinkably oblivious to everything, or disgustingly loyal to his ol' pal Jerry.

And either way, he needs to resign or be fired.

[Sodboy13]

Paterno is either unthinkably oblivious to everything, or disgustingly loyal to his ol' pal Jerry.

Are we sure it can't be both?

I hadn't thought of it as an and/or statement, but that sure does make it worse, so thanks!

[Cujo]

Translation for anyone not wanting to this creep on tape: "Fvck the victims. Go Penn State Football!"

[NJTank]

Joe Pa looked like Abe Simpson in that video.