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Say it ain't so, Joe


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In a bemusing Twitter sideshow, a retired Penn State grad who burned his diploma from the school, presumably to protest against Paterno and the handling of the Sandusky case, has attracted some attention in his own right, along with his own hashtag: #diplomaburner

Update: Most of the pictures of the diploma burner seem to originate from one account: @dsully215

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I think my perception on how I view the icons of a sport has changed now. If Penn State could go down with something as heinous as this, would it be that surprising if another college (or pro organization) went down with something equally as perverse?

Quite frankly, college athletics has been screwed up since it's inception. I think every program has a secret to hide. Honestly, I'm surprised there have been no allegations of Oregon taking take "a little bit too much money" from Nike. Hell, I bet they've given recruits plenty of free stuff. No sane person can honestly believe Oregon got to where they are on on field success alone, right?

According to Paul Lukas, it was the uniforms that attracted all those blue chip recruits.

Too the point at hand, I'm not simply referring to the paying-off of college athletes, which obviously happens everywhere from Bowdoin to Tuscaloosa. I'm referring to some sick perverted pedo :censored: who was not only an integral part of a team, but who's actions are covered up by the organization he's affiliated with.

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As for sanctions, I'm not sure what that's going to accomplish. Anyone involved will be gone, and the only ones who will suffer will be the current players and whoever new takes over. It's not really right to teach a lesson to someone who didn't do anything wrong.

I think we all agree that the athletic department and specifically the football program should face consequences for this. Sadly, that's the only reasonable way for the NCAA to punish schools. As long as they allow players to transfer without losing eligibility, it won't even hurt the players that much.

I don't agree that Penn State should face any consequences from this. Assuming they completely rebuild the football staff and get a new athletic director, I don't think they should face any other penalties. Doing that would only be punishing people that had nothing to do with what you'd be punishing them for.

Bingo. If they completely clean house, why should we continue to punish the organization, which is only related to this scandal in name only?

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I know, that is why I did not put it in my photobucket.

But seriously, "Victim 4" was the one who accompanied the Sandusky family to bowl games and threatened to send him home if his advances were thwarted.

That means he crossed state lines with the kid. If the statute of limitations are still there, that's a FEDERAL offense.

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Well, over 72 hours later, the University finally releases a formal statement. And it wasn't much.

The Board of Trustees of The Pennsylvania State University is outraged by the horrifying details contained in the Grand Jury Report. As parents, alumni and members of the Penn State Community, our hearts go out to all of those impacted by these terrible events, especially the tragedies involving children and their families. We cannot begin to express the combination of sorrow and anger that we feel about the allegations surrounding Jerry Sandusky. We hear those of you who feel betrayed and we want to assure all of you that the Board will take swift, decisive action.

At its regular meeting on Friday, November 11, 2011, the Board will appoint a Special Committee, members of which are currently being identified, to undertake a full and complete investigation of the circumstances that gave rise to the Grand Jury Report. This Special Committee will be commissioned to determine what failures occurred, who is responsible and what measures are necessary to insure that this never happens at our University again and that those responsible are held fully accountable. The Special Committee will have whatever resources are necessary to thoroughly fulfill its charge, including independent counsel and investigative teams, and there will be no restrictions placed on its scope or activities. Upon the completion of this investigation, a complete report will be presented at a future public session of the Board of Trustees.

Penn State has always strived for honesty, integrity and the highest moral standards in all of its programs. We will not tolerate any violation of these principles. We educate over 95,000 students every year and we take this responsibility very seriously. We are dedicated to protecting those who are placed in our care. We promise you that we are committed to restoring public trust in the University.

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Well, over 72 hours later, the University finally releases a formal statement. And it wasn't much.

The Board of Trustees of The Pennsylvania State University is outraged by the horrifying details contained in the Grand Jury Report. As parents, alumni and members of the Penn State Community, our hearts go out to all of those impacted by these terrible events, especially the tragedies involving children and their families. We cannot begin to express the combination of sorrow and anger that we feel about the allegations surrounding Jerry Sandusky. We hear those of you who feel betrayed and we want to assure all of you that the Board will take swift, decisive action.

At its regular meeting on Friday, November 11, 2011, the Board will appoint a Special Committee, members of which are currently being identified, to undertake a full and complete investigation of the circumstances that gave rise to the Grand Jury Report. This Special Committee will be commissioned to determine what failures occurred, who is responsible and what measures are necessary to insure that this never happens at our University again and that those responsible are held fully accountable. The Special Committee will have whatever resources are necessary to thoroughly fulfill its charge, including independent counsel and investigative teams, and there will be no restrictions placed on its scope or activities. Upon the completion of this investigation, a complete report will be presented at a future public session of the Board of Trustees.

Penn State has always strived for honesty, integrity and the highest moral standards in all of its programs. We will not tolerate any violation of these principles. We educate over 95,000 students every year and we take this responsibility very seriously. We are dedicated to protecting those who are placed in our care. We promise you that we are committed to restoring public trust in the University.

How many dozens of people and various versions did those three paragraphs go through in the last few days? Good lord. Make arrests - find the coaches, find the witnesses, ask the hard questions - NOW!

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Well, over 72 hours later, the University finally releases a formal statement. And it wasn't much.

[

How many dozens of people and various versions did those three paragraphs go through in the last few days? Good lord. Make arrests - find the coaches, find the witnesses, ask the hard questions - NOW!

The longer Penn State remains silent the more and more of their incoming Freshman class they will lose.

There could now be the possibility that Trustees will also tell Admissions to accept a certain percentage larger than they traditionally would (specifically from international students) as a parent's fear to send their child to Penn State increases due to their silence. The scope of the allegations plus their silence since Saturday makes this as other have said not just about football or athletics, but an international story about the university.

One problem might be they have that 32 (27 voting) is too d@mn many to have on a Board of Trustees!

Penn State's 32-member Board of Trustees is composed of the following: Five trustees serve in an ex officio capacity by virtue of their position within the University or the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. They are the President of the University; the Governor of the Commonwealth; and the state secretaries of the departments of Agriculture; Education; and Conservation and Natural Resources. Six trustees are appointed by the Governor; nine trustees are elected by the alumni; six are elected by organized agricultural societies within the Commonwealth; and six are elected by the Board of Trustees representing business and industry endeavors.

The establishment of an independent probe is IMHO too little too late as these items were made aware to the university as late (not as early) as 1998. They can go back as see why the first report on Sandusky was kept confidential, but the only reason to have a new probe is to keep people currently on staff able to have pay/benefits. Meanwhile, jurisprudence and the probe will continue also at the cost to the State of Pennsylvania's taxpayers.

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Penn State's 32-member Board of Trustees is composed of the following: Five trustees serve in an ex officio capacity by virtue of their position within the University or the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. They are the President of the University; the Governor of the Commonwealth; and the state secretaries of the departments of Agriculture; Education; and Conservation and Natural Resources. Six trustees are appointed by the Governor; nine trustees are elected by the alumni; six are elected by organized agricultural societies within the Commonwealth; and six are elected by the Board of Trustees representing business and industry endeavors.

The establishment of an independent probe is IMHO too little too late as these items were made aware to the university as late (not as early) as 1998. They can go back as see why the first report on Sandusky was kept confidential, but the only reason to have a new probe is to keep people currently on staff able to have pay/benefits. Meanwhile, jurisprudence and the probe will continue also at the cost to the State of Pennsylvania's taxpayers.

This is a time-buying move. There's simply no excuse for it - none! There are witnesses, victims, all the ugliness 15 years of hidden child molestation and rape will get you pouring out of the rafters and yet they need to form an independent committee to research what action to take?

NO.

People need to be ripped out of their positions of power and put in jail if the evidence dictates it, from the university president to any PSU cop/janitor/etc who turned a blind eye to a related-misdoing. There's no excuse for this, no justification. Heads must roll, the system must be completely purged of corrupted officials who allowed this to happen.

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From SI.com

The full grand jury report is available online, but a bare few facts tell a damning story: Paterno, Curley and Schultz were informed in 2002 that a football graduate assistant had seen Sandusky sexually assaulting a young boy in the Nittany Lions’ locker room, by the GA himself. This apparently raised enough concern to enact a “please, don’t bring your victims onto school property” policy, according to the attorney general’s summation of the grand jury report. Attorney General Linda Kelly said that rather than reporting the matter to law enforcement, Curley and Schultz agreed that Sandusky be barred from bringing any Second Mile children into the football building.

And that’s all. The only reason we’re even aware of the story today is because Sandusky allegedly abused another boy while serving as a volunteer assistant at a high school and that school reported the incident to the police:

Again, how did this happen? What kind of people simply bar Sandusky from bringing young boys "into the football building" and leave it at that? How do they sleep at night?

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Sometimes a particularly bad story comes about and someone will say "I am really disheartened with humanity." We even have a thread on that in the lounge ("More proof the world is going to crap" or something). I don't often feel that way. There are some bad dudes in this world and a lot of problems, but when one mother kills her child, it does not make me think about "humanity" as there will always be bad people...

But this gets me thinking that. This makes me "down on people." The more you hear, the more it seems that we are well into double digits of people in the football program/athletic department/university that had reason to believe (ranging from hearing the rampant talk to actually witnessing acts) something was up and nobody stepped up. Everyone was "covering up", "looking the other way", or "covering their own asses". THIS is what disheartens me in regards to my species. Yeah, Sandusky's the true scumbag, but every time I hear about this story, it becomes more evident that there was tacit approval and from many, many people...not one person tried to stop it. Not one person stepped up for past and future victims. It's depressing.

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From SI.com

The full grand jury report is available online, but a bare few facts tell a damning story: Paterno, Curley and Schultz were informed in 2002 that a football graduate assistant had seen Sandusky sexually assaulting a young boy in the Nittany Lions' locker room, by the GA himself. This apparently raised enough concern to enact a "please, don't bring your victims onto school property" policy, according to the attorney general's summation of the grand jury report. Attorney General Linda Kelly said that rather than reporting the matter to law enforcement, Curley and Schultz agreed that Sandusky be barred from bringing any Second Mile children into the football building.

And that's all. The only reason we're even aware of the story today is because Sandusky allegedly abused another boy while serving as a volunteer assistant at a high school and that school reported the incident to the police:

Again, how did this happen? What kind of people simply bar Sandusky from bringing young boys "into the football building" and leave it at that? How do they sleep at night?

That is why that not having McQueary, Paterno, and Spanier as "people of interest" really irks me. If McQueary saw a woman being hit by someone he knew, or better yet, a person on fire, would he assist in putting the fire out or just call his Dad, or even better call 9-1-1 then leave the scene?

Also remember that the janitor, James Calhoun, who is now in managed care, saw an illegal sex act in 2000 and nearly had a heart attack from it, yet only told his fellow janitors and also did not call the police for fear of his job. The quotes from Calhoun's co-worker on what Calhoun are damning, but sadly also hearsay.

From the lack of words from Penn State in the last 72 hours, McQueary has earned a "Scarlet Letter" in terms of college football, HS football and potentially the NFL. There is NO house in America which has a child is he now going to be seen as honest in. If he came into a recruit's house which you were related to or just were a family friend of, what would you say to him and how could he honestly win over you or that recruit's family? They have not addressed that either or how it would work if your daughter was date raped on campus. How serious was the investigation?

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its dispicable that people are making paterno out to be as bad as sandusky in any way, shape or form.

In the grand scheme of things, the scale on which his decisions (obviously he could have done more, but hes is in fact a human being) impact the entire situation are relatively miniscule when compared to the lack of effort/care and failure to report a serious incident such as this by the ONES THAT ARE TRULY RESPONSIBLE (Curley, Shultz, Spanier, etc.). Hell, more blame can be placed on McQuery that paterno at this point. How can you witness a young boy being raped without taking immediate action? thats more dispicable than Joe doing what his job entails and referring the matter of hearsay to a person he has full confidence in? (Tim Curley)

The fact that morals are entirely subjective and whether or not you disagree with what paterno chose to do or not to do does not change the fact that he did what he HAD to do.

This is not an issue with the football program. They didnt violate any NCAA rules, etc. People just assume it is because thats all they associate Penn State with. The issue is not with the team, its much, much bigger than that. It has to do with the UNIVERSITY, not Joe Paterno alone.

While cleaning house is the only thing that can save the PROGRAM at this point is needed, Joe is nothing but a casualty of a flawed system. As is my understanding, PA state law requires any employee working for a public/state affiliated institution to immediately report issue such as this to their superiors only. The fact of the matter is, the exact details of what McQuery told paterno are not yet (and may never be) known and are therefore hearsay. None of us know if the info provided by McQuery was downplayed or vague in any way. However, if it was and this is all that joe knew, why shouldnt he hand it up the chain of command and trust the system to work? Wouldnt you? especially in a place of such high power, with allegations coming from a mere GA against a longtime associate and friend of over thirty years? Would you instantly believe someone if they told you that your friend of 30+ years was molesting children?

Again this is just another way to look at this story, because unfortunately we are only being fed the facts that everyone at ESPN wants us to hear because it makes a better story. The media has been waiting for any chance they could get to crucify Paterno and this is their shot.

Saying that paterno and the entire football program harbored a child molester is not backed by fact as much as hearsay, speculation and lack of factual information at this point. If this changes i will be among the first to say i was wrong and change my mind. But, I wont let information that is purely subjective influence my perceptions of the situation.

I go to Penn State. I have a vested interest, not only in the football team, but also in the University itself and how this whole thing can alter the course of my life and my perception as a person based on my association with this school. This all disgusts me as much as the next person, but i am not willing to throw everyone under the bus without knowing ALL of the facts first.

Aso, i think many of you underestimate just how far the Penn State Football hand reaches. Paterno hasnt had any true influence on coaching or recruiting in the past 15 years and they attract big time recruits and win on a regular basis. While i expect the program to have an alabama type slump, this program is most certainly not dead in the water as most of you believe. Urban Meyer bought property in Boalsburg, just outside of state college on monday. Im not sayin. Im just sayin haha (thats the only positive thing i can muster the strength to write today)

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Sorry "Mau", throughout today, I forgot about this story from 2008. While the actions of the athletes by percentage is less than those of the student body, who was the recruiter?

From the story:

Since 2002, 46 Penn State football players have faced 163 criminal charges, according to an ESPN analysis of Pennsylvania court records and reports. Twenty-seven players have been convicted of or have pleaded guilty to a combined 45 counts.

These criminal charges coincide with concerns from a former player, a recruiting analyst, local media and others that Penn State has pursued recruits who are good athletes but might have questionable character issues, in order to improve performance. The team under head coach Joe Paterno faced an unprecedented four out of five losing seasons from 2000 to 2004.

Paterno says the allegations about recruiting are simply not true.

"We tried to get kids that were good, solid kids," the coach said. "We may have made a mistake or two, but there was no deliberate attempt."

Penn State president Graham Spanier said he believes Paterno and the university have taken appropriate disciplinary action against players involved in crimes. In trying to prevent such incidents, Spanier said he and other university officials meet with freshman student athletes at the start of each year and "talk about what expectations are."

"We read the riot act, so to speak, and we hope for the best," he said.

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Paterno hasnt had any true influence on coaching or recruiting in the past 15 years and they attract big time recruits and win on a regular basis. While i expect the program to have an alabama type slump, this program is most certainly not dead in the water as most of you believe. Urban Meyer bought property in Boalsburg, Just outside of state college on monday. Im not sayin. Im just sayin haha (thats the only positive thing i can muster the strength to write today)

From everything I've heard from various penn st peeps is that Paterno circa 98/2002 was as sharp as a tack, defied his age, and was a football titan despite being up there in years. He wasn't the half-whispering sad shuffling bag of bones he is today. I'd fully expect Paterno to know every intricate detail surrounding his football program near the time this was coming to light. The fact that he heard firsthand from McQueary and watched as the execs he told did the bare minimum is damning. There shouldn't be any parade, there shouldn't be any planned exit for Paterno at the end of the year with a big ceremony.

He should be in police custody with the rest of the suits that allowed this to happen being taken under oath to answer questions. Why? Why was this allowed to happen? What the hell is wrong with the people on this planet?

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Paterno hasnt had any true influence on coaching or recruiting in the past 15 years and they attract big time recruits and win on a regular basis. While i expect the program to have an alabama type slump, this program is most certainly not dead in the water as most of you believe. Urban Meyer bought property in Boalsburg, Just outside of state college on monday. Im not sayin. Im just sayin haha (thats the only positive thing i can muster the strength to write today)

From everything I've heard from various penn st peeps is that Paterno circa 98/2002 was as sharp as a tack, defied his age, and was a football titan despite being up there in years. He wasn't the half-whispering sad shuffling bag of bones he is today. I'd fully expect Paterno to know every intricate detail surrounding his football program near the time this was coming to light. The fact that he heard firsthand from McQueary and watched as the execs he told did the bare minimum is damning. There shouldn't be any parade, there shouldn't be any planned exit for Paterno at the end of the year with a big ceremony.

He should be in police custody with the rest of the suits that allowed this to happen being taken under oath to answer questions. Why? Why was this allowed to happen? What the hell is wrong with the people on this planet?

Obvious PSU troll is obvious... but i digress

you obviously didnt read the entire post...

not once did i say he SHOULDNT go. The ridicule is unwarranted. Im not calling for parades or celebrations. The fact that paterno has to take the fall for everyone else is a shame but if its what needs to be done im all for it.

And that fact that you classify joe in with the university "suits" shows me how much you actually know about how things work at PSU. He doesnt run the university like all of you think

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Watching Paterno on ESPN this evening makes me sad. I said it upthread, but the guy is so clearly a mascot for the school and most definitely not a person who is functionally in charge of anything, and perhaps not even his faculties. He's 85 now, putting him well in mental control back when the original allegations surfaced, so he's definitely not off the hook for any culpability. But today's Paterno is simply not that guy, not anymore.

I say that not to make any excuses, but just to reflect. Joe Paterno is no victim and certainly needs to be punished his wrongdoings. It just looks to me like a feeble old man who doesn't seem to be all there is going to go through an awful lot in the next few months that is the fault of a morally weak, but comparatively younger guy.

It's a tragedy that an entire institution convinced itself saving face was more important than saving the lives of children. It's a tragedy that a lot of people that most definitely should have known better turned the other way for a variety of career-saving reasons. And it's a tragedy that, short of major sanctions from multiple levels (including the Big Ten, NCAA and Commonwealth of Pennsylvania), there doesn't seem to any indicators that we as a society are going to do anything to prevent something like this from happening again.

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