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Say it ain't so, Joe


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Kill the program. Kill the entire freaking program. Just drive a stake into it and turn Happy Valley into cow pasture.

 

(Seriously, it's a travesty that the program didn't receive a year-long death penalty to begin with. Never has a program been more deserving of it.)

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2 minutes ago, kroywen said:

Kill the program. Kill the entire freaking program. Just drive a stake into it and turn Happy Valley into cow pasture.

 

(Seriously, it's a travesty that the program didn't receive a year-long death penalty to begin with. Never has a program been more deserving of it.)

 

They didn't then, and they won't now.  Paterno being dead and Sandusky in jail is likely as far as the NCAA will go.  They want this story to similarly die off.

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2 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Joe Paterno may have known of an earlier Jerry Sandusky abuse claim according to a police report.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/09/us/penn-state-paterno-sandusky-police-report/index.html

Abuse or horseplay, because McQueary can't keep a story straight with a ruler. So depending on what McQueary ACTUALLY told Paterno, at this point I don't think McQueary really evens knows, is the basis on which to judge this new information.

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56 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

Abuse or horseplay, because McQueary can't keep a story straight with a ruler. So depending on what McQueary ACTUALLY told Paterno, at this point I don't think McQueary really evens knows, is the basis on which to judge this new information.

 

What did Joe Paterno do to you to earn such undying loyalty?

 

....

 

 

Wait, don't answer that.

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This isn't the first time it's come out that Paterno knew about the abuse as far back as the 19 hundred and 70's and continued to employ him until the damn mid 90's. None of that has anything to do with Mike McQueary. 

 

Sorry your football grandfather was an undeniably terrible person. 

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9 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Joe Paterno may have known of an earlier Jerry Sandusky abuse claim according to a police report.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/09/us/penn-state-paterno-sandusky-police-report/index.html

 

I heard about those claims in the 70's (that the article mentions). He turned his back on this for years. What a disgraceful situation. I will never root for Penn St. again. 

 

Wonder if Dan Bernstein (a talk show host with The Score in Chicago) will say anything about this on Monday. He has been all over this for the last six years. He even talked to Anthony Lubrano (a Penn St. trustee and a Goldman Sachs chairman?) last year on the air. 

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They received their NCAA penalty.

 

Their accreditation, which was reaffirmed in 2015, but in April, MSCHE was OK with Penn State and their self-study from the 2015 report. There are annual inspections, but reopening this is unlikely as they've complied since the 'Warning" in 2012.

 

 

http://news.psu.edu/story/481561/2017/09/08/administration/middle-states-accepts-penn-state’s-monitoring-report-and

 

Oh, and Sara Ganim really deserved her Pulitzer Prize at age 24.  She's very much not #fakenews

 

Edited by dfwabel
Ganim comment
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17 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

What did Joe Paterno do to you to earn such undying loyalty?

 

....

 

 

Wait, don't answer that.

Was Joe flawed....yes....we all are. Was Joe a saint....no....none of us are. Was Joe a great football coach....yes....one of the best. I guess it comes down to having respect for a man in a terrible situation that he never faced before, who handled it to the best of his knowledge, and who is forever tarnished by waiting 24 hours to alert the higher ups. Joe did what he was suppose to do at this time and place and it seems as though that JOE is the one who committed these atrocities in the minds of people. That is his crime...his court of public opinion crime...waiting.

I mean its not like Joe physically assaulted a student athlete on national television, like Ohio State's godlike Woody Hayes or Indiana's Bobby Knight choking one of his players in practice. I guess it would have been better for Joe to take a swing at a player than to wait to alert the higher ups to a situation that he never witnessed.

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18 hours ago, McCarthy said:

This isn't the first time it's come out that Paterno knew about the abuse as far back as the 19 hundred and 70's and continued to employ him until the damn mid 90's. None of that has anything to do with Mike McQueary. 

 

Sorry your football grandfather was an undeniably terrible person. 

The 70's? Proof?

Well, since its McQueary who is making this statement that Joe can't refute, since he's dead, I'd say this is about McQueary and the liar that he is, which is commonly known throughout Centre County. 

 

 

Sandusky, who is an undeniably terrible person, was not my football grandfather. 

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9 hours ago, dfwabel said:

They received their NCAA penalty.

 

Their accreditation, which was reaffirmed in 2015, but in April, MSCHE was OK with Penn State and their self-study from the 2015 report. There are annual inspections, but reopening this is unlikely as they've complied since the 'Warning" in 2012.

 

 

http://news.psu.edu/story/481561/2017/09/08/administration/middle-states-accepts-penn-state’s-monitoring-report-and

 

Oh, and Sara Ganim really deserved her Pulitzer Prize at age 24.  She's very much not #fakenews

 

This is correct, and since they have made the changes in policy and procedure in these matters....which hopefully they will never have to use them, but we live in this type of world now....they have shown commitment to righting wrongs. The NCAA will not look at revisiting any type of sanctions based on the words of McQueary.

As for Sara Ganim....I always wondered how she obtained those sealed transcripts? 

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46 minutes ago, Viola73 said:

Was Joe flawed....yes....we all are. Was Joe a saint....no....none of us are. Was Joe a great football coach....yes....one of the best.

 

Holy :censored: , man. 

 

I really wish this was a parody.   Because taken at face value, it's actually very sad. 

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6 hours ago, Viola73 said:

Was Joe flawed....yes....we all are. Was Joe a saint....no....none of us are. Was Joe a great football coach....yes....one of the best. I guess it comes down to having respect for a man in a terrible situation that he never faced before, who handled it to the best of his knowledge, and who is forever tarnished by waiting 24 hours to alert the higher ups. Joe did what he was suppose to do at this time and place and it seems as though that JOE is the one who committed these atrocities in the minds of people. That is his crime...his court of public opinion crime...waiting.

I mean its not like Joe physically assaulted a student athlete on national television, like Ohio State's godlike Woody Hayes or Indiana's Bobby Knight choking one of his players in practice. I guess it would have been better for Joe to take a swing at a player than to wait to alert the higher ups to a situation that he never witnessed.

 

I'll explain this respectfully.

 

1. Joe knew, whether when McQuery told him or before (almost undoubtedly before), that Sandusky was doing this.  FACT

2. Joe told his superiors.  OK, that's protocol. FACT

3. Nothing happened. FACT.  Maybe Joe influenced this, possibly it was the higher-ups protecting the image of the program. OPINION (I think) Doesn't necessarily matter.

4. Joe knew that Sandusky was free, assaulting children.  FACT.  He shrugged his shoulders and moved on with his life.  He was either OK with it right away, or accepted that the higher-ups didn't want to take action.  He did not notify the authorities, he did not pursue it any further.  He was OK and content with the knowledge that Sandusky was doing this.  FACT

5. Joe is the most powerful and influential figure in State College.  More powerful and influential than the higher-ups.  FACT.  He had the power to trigger an investigation, and if the police chose not to, he could have gone to the media or some other channel.  

6.  In this case, the "chain of command" is flawed, because the coach is higher up on the influence chain than his bosses.  At major college programs, the coach is the most important person, not the president or AD.  OPINION, but hard to argue.

7.  Joe's inaction directly lead to the continued abuse of children by Sandusky.  FACT.  The accountability lies with all of them - Spainer, the other guy, Joe, McQuery, everyone.  However, in any business, the boss bears the ultimate responsibility.  It's entirely possible (hell - it happened!) that nobody would listen to McQuery.  It's entirely possible (hell, it happened!) that the president had a conflict of interest and would choose to ignore it.  It would not have been the case that anyone in any law enforcement position would ignore Paterno had he chosen to pursue it.

 

  • Joe is responsible for every abuse that occurred after the first time he knew.  So is everyone involved, but he was in the best position to stop it.  Respectfully, I don't see any reasonable argument against this.

 

Sandusky bears the full responsibility for all of his actions, but Joe shares it from the point he knew and on.  It's the same with any crime, however there aren't many (if any) crimes worse than this.

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Once again, it comes down to the old saying:

 

A man can build 1000 bridges and :censored: one goat.  He won't be known as a bridge-builder; he'll be known as a goat :censored: er.  

 

A coach can win 1000 football games and enable one pedophile.  He won't be known as a winning coach; he'll be known as a pedophile enabler.

 

Vicariously, idiot fans who keep wanting to shift focus on the accomplishments a guy had on a goddamn football program as more important than turning a blind eye to children being raped and abused should be remembered for being pedophile excuse makers.  No sympathy or understanding.  You're cool with children being raped so long as football program is good.  That's about where it ends.

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Nobody can take away the wins, the donations, or all the other positive things he did, however, celebrating those sends the message that you can do horrible things and still be celebrated as long as you're winning football games or whatever else.  The message needs to be sent that the victims of crimes deserve more than to see their assailant (or in this case their assailant's enabler) honored, and future generations of people need to know that you can't get away with everything just because you're famous.

 

Celebrating the man only extends the "well, I shouldn't do this, but whatever - I'm famous enough that it'll blow over" mentality, which as we've seen in countless other cases, seems to be prevalent in pro sports (and elsewhere.)

 

 

Whether you think the punishment was fair or not (I think it should have been a lot worse), I'm not sure how there's any new information that could possibly come out that should change it now.  Really - what could possibly come out that's shocking?  Any reasonable person could assume that he knew prior to McQuery - this isn't new.  Right or wrong, the perpetrators have been punished, and the team's following is probably just as big as it was before - and that's a shame - I think the punishments were intended to drop the program down a few tiers and make it less important and provide less incentive to lie and cover up scandals - but obviously they were either too lenient or James Franklin is too good (I think the former is far more likely than the latter.)

 

Remove the statue, remove the name from any place of honor it appears, remove freaking Jay Paterno from any position he holds (he may be innocent (or... maybe not?) but that name just needs to go away for a long time), set up a fund and donate some meaningful percentage of gameday profits to organizations that aid abused children, and move on.  It'll take a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time - but eventually the Paterno worship will fade away.  It was only 2012 (right?) - kids there now were in high-school and still lived most of their lives with him as a hero.  Give it 10 years.  The town itself might never understand right from wrong, but hopefully the students will.

 

 

 

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