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Say it ain't so, Joe


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13 hours ago, CS85 said:

Once again, it comes down to the old saying:

 

A man can build 1000 bridges and :censored: one goat.  He won't be known as a bridge-builder; he'll be known as a goat :censored: er.  

 

I can't say I've heard this one before, but it seems to fit.

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What I don't get is choosing to die on this hill if you're a Joe Paterno fan. I have sports heroes too. If any of them did what Joe Paterno did they wouldn't be my sports heroes anymore and I wouldn't go out of my way to defend them. 

 

If you stake yourself to that side there's no way to come off in a good light. The best possible outcome for you is your football coach was a dumbass who heard from an assistant coach that his former assistant was raping a boy in the shower and then didn't do anything about it. That's...not great and that's best case scenario. Why go to bat for the guy in even that scenario? Consider, then, the more likely scenarios based on testimonies, anecdotes, timelines of when Sandusky left the program and ask yourself, be honest with yourself, was that really the first time Paterno, the man lauded for being the controlling, omnipotent presence leading the PSU football program, heard something like that? The probability of that is low, which means Paterno allowed a known pedophile to bring kids to his facility for years. At best your guy was an idiot, at worst he was complicit in the molestation. In any case he prioritized football over the safety of those kids and in any case you're on the wrong team. 

 

The best way to play it if you're interested in being viewed as a compassionate person capable of separating your sports interests from that of your humanity, Penn Staters, is go "yeah no way around it that Paterno :censored:ed up and we as a community need to reevaluate our priorities because our over-emphasis on amateur football and our deification of the head coach directly contributed to a culture that allowed for years of unchecked molestation of dozens of kids." That's all you have to say.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

What I don't get is choosing to die on this hill if you're a Joe Paterno fan.

 

It's honestly a few steps removed from the same weird racist hacks that are willing to commit murder in order to defend statues of confederate army generals.  They find the destruction of statues and eradication of legacy to be threatening, and when Paterno had all those years of wins, culture creation, and local economy power suddenly yanked from him, these cultist sickos are outraged.

 

One could also argue that the defense is so heavy-handed due to Penn State fans not wanting the "Winning Tradition" of the football program be statistically invalidated.  Perception is a powerful thing, and since Paterno is basically solely responsible for their success, redacting his achievements is essentially redacting the entire history of the program.

 

The only problem is that it's warranted, but good luck explaining that to some of these Penn State creeps.  All they know is that it wasn't Joe Paterno blowing kids in his basement.  It wasn't Joe Paterno raping little boys in the school showers.  It wasn't Joe Paterno forcing kids to give him oral sex.

 

And by that measure alone, because he DIDN'T do it directly, only implicitly, PSU fans are adamant about how this is an issue that merits negotiation.

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16 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Remove the statue, remove the name from any place of honor it appears, remove freaking Jay Paterno from any position he holds (he may be innocent (or... maybe not?) but that name just needs to go away for a long time), set up a fund and donate some meaningful percentage of gameday profits to organizations that aid abused children, and move on.  It'll take a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time - but eventually the Paterno worship will fade away.  It was only 2012 (right?) - kids there now were in high-school and still lived most of their lives with him as a hero.  Give it 10 years.  The town itself might never understand right from wrong, but hopefully the students will.

 

Also, what Penn St. should do (as a caller to the Boers and Bernstein show suggested a year ago) is offer counseling to these victims. If they aren't doing that, they are ***holes of the highest order. 

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5 hours ago, ltp74 said:

Sadly it's not, it's how most of the Penn State cult members think.

 

You're not joking. Two of my cousins are PSU alums. And both live in that same half jusified haze that so many PSU fans seem to. Able to divorce child rape from FOOTBAW!!!!

 

Grandpa was a piece of :censored: guys... winning doesn't fix that.

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22 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

winning doesn't fix that.

 

I wish I could agree with that, but honestly?...

 

Penn State going on some rampant run of victories would, for all intents and purposes, be looked at as some sort of cathartic opportunity from a great many people.  


"It's the new Penn State legacy."
"It's a rebirth of the program, rising up from the ashes."
"We can finally let the past be in the past."

"Penn State is winning, and with that comes healing."

 

Vomit.

 

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12 hours ago, CS85 said:

 

I wish I could agree with that, but honestly?...

 

Penn State going on some rampant run of victories would, for all intents and purposes, be looked at as some sort of cathartic opportunity from a great many people.  


"It's the new Penn State legacy."
"It's a rebirth of the program, rising up from the ashes."
"We can finally let the past be in the past."

"Penn State is winning, and with that comes healing."

 

Vomit.

 

It already seems like they have sort of become America's Team.  ..partly because a lot of people (most outside this board as far as I can tell) felt like getting everyone out was good enough and the school has been persecuted and partly because Big Bad Ohio State made the playoff.  It seems like people want PSU to be a top-flight program again because that's what matters.

 

There are two issues...Paterno and the program.  I don't think too many outside of the Valley are too into defending Paterno.  It is just the hard-core doing that.

 

However, nationally, folks just want to forget the story and move on and I think winning helps people think that is happening.

 

For me it was never really about Paterno...he was one of several people who enabled Sandusky.  I don't think the school should honor him, but when I wanted an actual impactful punishment, it was about the culture, of which Paterno was only a part... and can continue through a lot of personnel turnover.  That culture valued football wins over basic decency and I'm not convinced getting rid of some people removes that culture.  And that culture seems reflected in their role as a national favorite.

 

I feel like it was a missed opportunity to make sure the risk outweighs the reward in covering up sexual assaults.  And that's much bigger than Paterno.

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http://www.10news.com/news/national/jerry-sandusky-s-son-pleads-guilty-to-14-counts-of-child-sex-abuse

 

Jeffrey Sandusky, the son of convicted sex abuser and former Penn State football coach Jerry Sandusky, pleaded guilty Friday to all 14 counts of child sexual abuse against him.

The Centre Country district attorney's office said the younger Sandusky, 41, entered the guilty pleas a week before his trial was scheduled to begin.

 

The 14 counts included soliciting sex from a child younger than 16 and soliciting child pornography.

 

According to the district attorney's office, Sandusky will become a Tier III sex offender, the highest level in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania."

 

The charges involve incidents with two girls, one in 2013 and one in 2016.

 

The crimes were uncovered late last year when a girl told her father that Sandusky had texted her repeatedly, asking her to send him naked photos.

 

The father contacted the police, and during the investigation, police discovered another girl, known as victim No. 2, who said Sandusky had asked her to engage in oral sex with him years before.

 

Both victims say Sandusky tried to use different excuses to try to get them to participate, saying at one point that he "had studied medicine" and another time that he believed that Victim No. 1 had shared a nude photo with her boyfriend, and he wanted to see it.

 

"This outcome also ensures the victims need not suffer the trauma and re-victimization of testifying at trial and importantly, the defendant will have to comply with strict sex offender registration requirements for the remainder of his life," District Attorney Stacy Parks Miller said.

 

According to the district attorney's office, the terms of Sandusky's plea guarantee that he will serve 3 to 6 years in state incarceration "but allows the judge to impose as much as 4 to 8 years of state prison in her discretion at the time of sentencing."

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  • 2 months later...

Possible parallel involving Michigan State Gymnastics.  Not as high-profile but just as awful.

 

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/12/04/schuette-tells-msu-he-wants-internal-nassar-investto-turn-over-findings-nassar-internal-investigatio/921222001/

 

Obviously, PSU provided no precedent to really do anything culture-changing.  Just more evidence that an organization's reputation comes first and that any group of people is capable of collective denial.

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23 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

Possible parallel involving Michigan State Gymnastics.  Not as high-profile but just as awful.

 

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2017/12/04/schuette-tells-msu-he-wants-internal-nassar-investto-turn-over-findings-nassar-internal-investigatio/921222001/

 

Obviously, PSU provided no precedent to really do anything culture-changing.  Just more evidence that an organization's reputation comes first and that any group of people is capable of collective denial.

I think USA Gymnastics will be facing more blow back from this than Michigan State, mainly due to the fact that minors were receiving treatment without their parents or another adult chaperone present. This guy's not even the worst case that's come from USA Gymnastics which is pretty sad.

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On 12/8/2017 at 9:08 AM, MJWalker45 said:

I think USA Gymnastics will be facing more blow back from this than Michigan State, mainly due to the fact that minors were receiving treatment without their parents or another adult chaperone present. This guy's not even the worst case that's come from USA Gymnastics which is pretty sad.

Both USA Gymnastics and US Swimming wrote the USOC about changing protocols nearly two decades ago, but all three of them basically balked, especially the USOC as they were going to decertify US Gymnastics when their president originally asked to change policy.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2017/03/31/usoc-sexual-abuse-usa-swimming-senate/99826600/

 

Quote

Nearly six years before USA Swimming was rocked by a series of sexual abuse accusations against coaches, the national governing body sent two letters to the U.S. Olympic Committee asking it to take the lead in developing policies to protect young athletes across the Olympic movement.

 

The letters, which were sent in late 2004 and early 2005 and obtained by USA TODAY Sports, echoed a plea made five years earlier by USA Gymnastics. In both cases, the USOC was alerted to a potential crisis by two of the country's largest and most decorated governing bodies.

 

In 1999, the then-president of USA Gymnastics, Bob Colarossi, made a similar plea. In lodging a complaint against a USOC group that had threatened to decertify USA Gymnastics as the sport’s governing body over its policy of immediately suspending anyone charged with a felony involving abuse of a child, Colarossi warned that the USOC was not doing enough to protect young athletes.

 

“This is not an issue that can be wished away,” Colarossi wrote. “The USOC can either position itself as a leader in the protection of young athletes or it can wait until it is forced to deal with the problem under much more difficult circumstances.”

 

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9 minutes ago, Lights Out said:

At this point, never mind just their footbal program - Penn State should lose their accreditation too.

 

16 minutes ago, DnBronc said:

 

Oh, geez. That school needs to be renamed Scumbag University.

 

On 12/16/2017 at 8:09 AM, Ice_Cap said:

 

Look, I'm as on board with the anti Penn State Sandusky stuff as anyone, but jesus - every college has fraternity hazing issues.  Penn State is just in the spotlight right now because of a death.  Don't pretend for a second that the exact same stuff isn't going on at 100+ other colletes / universities.

 

If you think it's not, you're naive at best, an idiot at worst.

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On 12/17/2017 at 10:04 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

 

 

 

Look, I'm as on board with the anti Penn State Sandusky stuff as anyone, but jesus - every college has fraternity hazing issues.  Penn State is just in the spotlight right now because of a death.  Don't pretend for a second that the exact same stuff isn't going on at 100+ other colletes / universities.

 

If you think it's not, you're naive at best, an idiot at worst.

 

I know they do. Penn St. isn't the only university on my crap list. I can't stand Baylor (all of the things they did in the name of sports) and Florida State (their players were going around shooting people with BB Guns and didn't get disciplined for it) right now, either (among other universities).

 

I also don't like UCLA because of their blatant cheating in the Wooden era (that was ignored by the NCAA). And, current men's HC Steve Alford took someone from the Fellowship of Christian Athletes (or some other "Christian" organization) to threaten a rape victim (I think she was the first of two rape victims by Iowa star player Pierre Pierce) when he was HC of Iowa in the early-00's (they told her that Jesus didn't want her to press charges or something).

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