Say it ain't so, Joe

[The_Admiral]

Chrissy Teigen said she'd pay McKayla Maroney's fines for breaking her NDA to testify against Nassar, which is good.

[LMU]

On 1/16/2018 at 7:18 PM, the admiral said:

Chrissy Teigen said she'd pay McKayla Maroney's fines for breaking her NDA to testify against Nassar, which is good.

Good news is that US Gymnastics announced that they’re not going to try to collect the fine.

 

If they decide to cover their PR with gasoline and light a match though Kristen Bell and some Twitter brokerage president guy offered into the fund as well.

[OnWis97]

This MSU thing is starting to look even worse than the Penn State thing...not to mention USA gymnastics.  

 

https://deadspin.com/report-more-than-a-dozen-msu-staffers-were-told-about-1822188495?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true

 

Forget what I think the NCAA should have done to Penn State...this is just another sad case in the reality that organizations (and the people within) frequently (always?) choose Bystandarism/Money/Reputation/NotRockingTheBoat/Ignorace/Denial/TheEasyWay/WhateverOtherMotivation over protecting the vulnerable from horrible acts. And this will likely be another case where the perpetrator goes to prison, everyone feels good, and the culture does not change.  It makes no intuitive sense that someone like Nasser or Sandusky could do these things for so long without being caught and I think that contributes to the denial.  But many of the perpetrators are sociopathic criminal geniuses.  The testimony from one of the victims was that she told her parents and when they confronted Nasser, he convinced them she was lying.  You could argue the parents should have done better there, but that still points to a very persuasive criminal genius.  And still, I bet some people will say "why, if this happened so long ago, is she just talking about it now."  That kind of ignorance leads to, even if inadvertantly, victim-blaming and not believing anyone.  

 

The thing that keeps me depressed is not that monsters like Sandusky and Nasser exist.  But that so many people find ways to let them keep on going....and it's not simply that they're not being punished for past acts, but that they're able to continue ruining the lives of others. It makes me think about my place within an organization and how I hope (and, in fact, need to believe) that I would have the courage to go against the grain if something like this was happening...I think I would, but it's amazing how so many otherwise decent people don't.  I don't really know what can be done about this but I do wish we didn't just high-five when the perpetrator goes to prison and then move on without addressing the problem that enabled it to go on for so long.

[OnWis97]

Between the PSU and gymnastic scandals, I think the below is the most important thing I've heard anyone high-profile say.

 

https://deadspin.com/aly-raisman-is-ready-to-burn-it-all-down-1822234455

 

Aly Raisman, Olympic medalist had plenty to say to her abuser, but she is also very aware of the enablers that helped make her abuse possible.  I hope she somehow is able to find a way to help influence some kind of change is the culture of enabling.  It's unfortunate that none of the PSU victims had her level of notoriety.

 

But a cursory glancing of the stories about this show that even headlines about Raisman relate to what she said to Nasser.  Yeah, Nasser is scum, but that's low-hanging fruit.  For real change to occur, her remarks about the organization are what need to be taken to heart.

[The_Admiral]

It seems to be an unfortunate part of human nature that people will do the right thing to the extent that it doesn't bring about bureaucratic headaches. You worried about whether you would do what's right if you found yourself in a similar situation of institutional evil. I think most of us would do the legal or moral minimum, pray that we've done our part, and hope someone else can take it from there until the problem goes away. Everyone wants to be good, no one wants to deal with crap.

[dfwabel]

This is an email sent to those associated with Michigan State this afternoon.

(Mods, if inappropriate or a TOS violation, edit as you see fit)

 

Quote

Dear MSU community member:

With several events related to the terrible crimes committed by former MSU physician Larry Nassar in the news, I want to describe what we are doing to address the issues arising from this matter and, more importantly, the steps we are taking to support his victims, create the safest campus environment possible, and do our utmost to prevent something such as this from ever happening again.

Today, the Board of Trustees wrote to Michigan State Attorney General Bill Schuette asking him to undertake a review of the events surrounding the Nassar matter. As the Board said, "We are making this request because we believe such a review is needed to answer questions that persist concerning MSU's handling of the Nassar situation."

The testimony of Nassar's victims this week made many of us, including me, listen to the survivors and the community in a different way. It is clear to the Board and me that a review by the Attorney General's Office can provide the answers people need. I hope this review will help the survivors and the entire MSU community heal and move forward.

Board Chair Brian Breslin and I watched the livestream of the first day of the victim impact statements, and Trustee Melanie Foster and I attended the afternoon session at court yesterday. It was heartbreaking to hear victims talk about how Nassar abused them and their trust. As I have said, I am truly sorry for the abuse Nassar's victims suffered, the pain it caused, and the pain it continues to cause. And I am sorry that a physician who called himself a Spartan so utterly betrayed everyone's trust and everything for which the university stands. The Board has joined me in expressing these sentiments, and I can assure you the Board and I are united in our commitment to help the survivors move forward with their lives.

Toward this end, the Board last month authorized creation of a $10-million fund to help survivors access counseling and mental health services, and last week we announced additional details of this initiative. The Healing Assistance Fund will be administered by Commonwealth Mediation and Conciliation, Inc., a Boston firm with extensive experience coordinating such services. MSU student-athletes and patients seen by Nassar at an MSU health clinic who were abused by him, as well as the parents of these victims, will be able to use the fund. Survivors and their parents also will be able to obtain reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses incurred for such services before the creation of the fund. Simply put, our goal is to support survivors by making sure they get the counseling or mental health help they need, with minimal worry about cost. We have also retained the Minnesota Coalition Against Sexual Assault, which will provide referral services for Nassar's victims who do not yet have counselors and need to locate providers near them.

Our focus on survivors is necessary and appropriate, both now and in the future. But we also have taken a hard look at ourselves to learn from what happened. Since the fall of 2016, we have engaged external experts to comprehensively review various programs and recommend changes to strengthen our policies, procedures, and systems, including an examination of patient care and safety in our health clinics, our Title IX program, and how medical services are provided to student-athletes and others. In short, we have systematically reviewed and sought to improve every part of MSU's operations that were in any way connected to Nassar and his work, with the clear purpose of achieving the highest standards to protect students, athletes, and patients. Additional details are available on the MSU "Our Commitment" website:https://msu.edu/ourcommitment/.

I believe we have achieved much on this front over the last year and a half, although I also understand introducing new procedures does not change what happened to Nassar's victims or the pain they feel. I am deeply committed to the pursuit of best practices, with external input and transparency about the status of our progress. You can be confident that we will continue to take additional steps to improve our systems.

Apart from describing the work we are doing on behalf of survivors, I also want to update you on the significant developments taking place in the Nassar criminal and civil cases. Nassar has pleaded guilty in three criminal proceedings - federal child pornography charges, sexual assault cases in Ingham County, and sexual assault cases in Eaton County. He has been given the equivalent of a life sentence of 60 years for the pornography charges, the first of what I hope will be several lengthy prison sentences. This month, he will be sentenced separately in Ingham and Eaton counties. As I mentioned above, his victims are first being given the chance to make impact statements in court. This is happening now in Ingham County, where the proceedings are expected to run several days. The Eaton County court proceedings are scheduled for January 31. MSU and the MSU Police Department have worked and will continue to work with any law enforcement investigation looking into criminal matters involving Nassar. In particular, I want to thank the MSU Police and specifically the detectives in the Special Victims Unit, who spent countless hours helping bring Nassar to justice, as well as the FBI, the U.S. Attorney, and the Michigan Attorney General's Office.

While the criminal cases are nearing conclusion, the civil litigation against MSU, involving multiple cases filed on behalf of victims, has begun to move forward. Last Friday, the university's lawyers filed motions to dismiss plaintiffs' claims based on a number of arguments. Given some of the criticism leveled at MSU, I hope you will keep a few important points in mind.

First, MSU is entitled to, and its insurers require, that we will mount an appropriate defense of these cases. This means MSU's lawyers are making arguments in defense of the claims of civil liability. There is nothing extraordinary about such legal efforts - they are typical at this stage of civil litigation. Given Nassar's horrendous acts, these arguments can seem disrespectful to the victims. Please know that the defenses raised on MSU's behalf are in no way a reflection of our view of the survivors, for whom we have the utmost respect and sympathy, but rather represent, as the Board has said, our desire "to protect MSU's educational and research missions."

Second, depending on the court's rulings on the initial legal arguments, the parties may enter into a period of "discovery," in which each side will be able to review relevant documents and depose relevant witnesses to determine what happened and when. The entire pre-trial process can be time consuming, but it is often the standard means by which complex cases like this are decided on legal grounds or brought forward to trial.

So, as the litigation progresses in the months ahead, you will likely continue to hear a variety of allegations and accusations against the university. I ask for your patience as well as your understanding that MSU cannot litigate the cases in the media and that many public assertions may go unchallenged unless or until they are addressed in open court.

The Board hired external legal counsel to assist MSU in responding to the Nassar allegations and specifically instructed them that if they find any evidence during their ongoing engagement that anyone at MSU other than Nassar knew of Nassar's criminal behavior and did anything to conceal or facilitate it, then that evidence of criminal conduct will be reported immediately to appropriate law enforcement authorities and the Board will be informed.

In a recent letter to the Michigan State Attorney General, MSU's external counsel, including former U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, underscored those clear instructions from the Board and stated that, ". . . the evidence will show that no MSU official believed that Nassar committed sexual abuse prior to newspaper reports in the summer of 2016."

The FBI and MSU Police Department also conducted a joint investigation earlier this year into whether any university employee engaged in criminal conduct relating to Nassar's actions; there were no charges filed. I have complete faith in the legal process and in the professionalism and dedication of local, state, and federal law enforcement.

We understand and respect the desire for information and details arising from the Nassar matter, which now spans 16 months, and we are committed to continuing to share whatever information we can with the MSU community and the public.

Sincerely,

Lou Anna K. Simon, PhD

President

 

[ElwoodCuse]

What a piece of trash Tom Izzo is. He has all this time to think about the horrors perpetrated at his school and he says "I hope they convicted the right person". Hey jagoff it's 100% clear Larry deserves to spend life in prison. The question is, who else from your school should join him. How about don't open your mouth at all if that's the kind of ignorance you are going to spew.

[MJWalker45]

Probably not the most eloquent wording from him, but people are acting like Izzo was the one that was covering up for this guy for years. He would have been better off saying nothing but then what does everyone say? He may want to say, "Let's not stop at this guy", but he's going to cover his backside and the relationships he has with some of the leadership at the school who are likely candidates for lawsuits that are already being made or are about to be made. 

[The_Admiral]

Would a good law-talkin' guy be able to do anything with the judge cutting a promo on Nassar, saying she'd sanction unconstitutional punishment if she could (read: the anal rape endemic to the prison system)? That part didn't feel like a legal masterstroke to me.

[goalieboy82]

put Nassar and Sandusky among the general prison population and see how long they last.  

[The_Admiral]

Right, of course, but how can anyone consider themselves left of center while taking so much glee in the existence of prison rape? Why can't it be enough for him to rot in prison for the rest of his life, as he should? You might as well say we should cut his hands off.

[goalieboy82]

1 minute ago, the admiral said:

Right, of course, but how can anyone consider themselves left of center while taking so much glee in the existence of prison rape? Why can't it be enough for him to rot in prison for the rest of his life, as he should? You might as well say we should cut his hands off.

i dont get glee out that but was saying, how long they would last if they were put among the general prison population.  

 

[The_Admiral]

They wouldn't last long at all. But too many people let their bloodlust show when they temporarily align themselves with our screwed-up prison culture and wish for people's sodomy and murder. I think the judge was over the top in her choice of words (but not her sentencing) and detracted from the victims' statements.

[Wings]

Just let them both rot in a cell and stare at a wall for 100 years. 

[goalieboy82]

1 minute ago, the admiral said:

They wouldn't last long at all. But too many people let their bloodlust show when they temporarily align themselves with our screwed-up prison culture and wish for people's sodomy and murder.

you are right, too many people do show bloodlust when it comes to people like that (i know i do sometimes, but in general, its better for people like that to wait it out in prison until the day they die, knowing they will be there for years on end in solitary confinement away from everyone).  

[The_Admiral]

I think everyone wants to demonstrate that they're on the right side of the line here, which shouldn't even be at issue, given the enormity of what Nassar did. Judges still shouldn't openly yearn for continual rape as a sentence, especially when we know it already is one, and that it is one is a bad thing, not a good thing, if we're supposed to believe that we've civilized beyond ancient Middle Eastern concepts of justice.

[CS85]

23 minutes ago, the admiral said:

if we're supposed to believe that we've civilized beyond ancient Middle Eastern concepts of justice.

 

We aren't.  The amount of times I hear in everyday conversation where people immediately want death, torture, pain, and mutilation to befall certain people or groups of people makes me markedly uncomfortable.  

It's forgivable to speak out of emotion, especially when you're discussing something like pedophiles and sexual cretins, but you repeat the same things over and over again, perhaps you self-indoctrinate the desire for an Americanized Sharia Law.

[OnWis97]

People are definitely trying to outdo each other on how they can show how scummy they feel this guy is.  To me that's just low-hanging fruit.  If anyone suggests he's not awful, I'll engage them, but otherwise, I think it pretty much goes without saying.  And there's always been something unsettling to me about the idea of celebrating all the rapes and beat downs that someone's going to get.  Also, I fine it somewhat ironic that murders and rapists of adults get high and mighty over anyone.

 

And again...maybe there's no connection, but with all the high-fiving we do that Nasser will never get out of prison, do we lose site of the enablers that allow people like Nasser to thrive for so long?  Yes, he's the bad guy, but there will always be people like this.  Locking him up is the right thing to do, but it solves nothing for the bigger picture.  How do we fix the culture of enabling?

 

As for the judge, she's grandstanding some.  I personally don't care a lot (unless it ends up being grounds for mistrial or appeal)

 

[Cosmic]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

They wouldn't last long at all. But too many people let their bloodlust show when they temporarily align themselves with our screwed-up prison culture and wish for people's sodomy and murder. I think the judge was over the top in her choice of words (but not her sentencing) and detracted from the victims' statements.

Do you have a link to the things you thought were over the top? I tried reading what I could find that the judge said, but I haven't run across anything rapey. Without knowing exactly what was said by the judge, it was very obvious that Nassar still doesn't "get it". In the context that he submitted a letter to the court last week sometime where he said that his accusers were just seeking attention, he deserved a stern talking to.

[BBTV]

36 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

People are definitely trying to outdo each other on how they can show how scummy they feel this guy is.  To me that's just low-hanging fruit.  If anyone suggests he's not awful, I'll engage them, but otherwise, I think it pretty much goes without saying. 

 

Pretty much the point I've made a few times over the years in this thread.