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Say it ain't so, Joe


Viper
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Am I the only one who thinks there had to be rumors of Sandusky's behavior? Especially after 2002? The fact that the guy still had access to the program after the 2002 incident leads me to think that a lot of people turned their heads and pretended that everything was A-OK. Sorry, but I'm just not buying the idea that everyone "was fooled."

You've never had a friend who turned out to be a sexual deviant have you? It's not something most people are willing to admit is possible. Hell they'll delude themselves that it can't be true until the evidence is staring them right in the face, trust me I've seen it happen.

Can't say that I have. You make it sound like it's a pretty common occurrence. If someone came to me and said "one of your friends likes to blow little boys", I'd like to think that, at the very least, I'd go to that friend and say "someone told me you like to blow little boys." The last thing I'd do is tell myself "well this can't possibly be true." We're not talking about being in denial about a friend's coke habit or drinking problem here. We're talking about a guy who was preying on young boys.

Well in my life it's happened twice now so it's become a far too common occurrence for me. As for what we'd like to think we'd do, and what actually happens, they are two different things. But given your line of reasoning who is to say Paterno didn't go to Sandusky and ask him if it were true? Obviously Sandusky would have said "no" to that question.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I'm not entirely sure what your point is and I'm not interested debating what I might or might not do in a similar situation. I know what I would do. There are moral absolutes in the world. Taking the appropriate action to stop a pedophile has to be one of them. I'm pretty sure I'm right about that.

I agree, if you know someone is a pedophile like say the GA did, then yes you have an absolute moral obligation (and legal one) to report it. Paterno didn't witness anything that we know so far and was only told (a day late) by a GA that one of his coaches was "doing something" with a kid. Doesn't even sound like he was given the details. Based on the little bit of info he did recieve he did act appropriately legally and arguably morally under his specific circumstances despite what some police chief said. I mean come on, you HAVE to put yourself in his shoes of some GA coming to you and telling you a long time friend and confidant was fooling around with a kid. If you don't ask yourself what you'd do in that situation you have no business commenting on what Paterno did or didn't do.

Could Paterno have done more, maybe. But he wasn't obligated to do any more than he did. The GA has legally and morally obligated to do a hell of a lot more, as were the AD and the school president if he knew. I mean why the hell didn't the GA break it up and/or call the cops. And the AD was also legally obligated to call the cops but didn't. They both are at fault for not doing what they were legally and morally obligated to do. But lets again not lose sight of who is the ultimate responsible party, Sandusky, the sick :censored: that he is...

You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

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You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

It's either this or that he is so timid that he just wanted to tell someone "higher up" and put it out of his mind, lazily assuming that he'd done his part and justice will now be served. Either way, it is absolutely charitable to call him "irresponsible". It's just flat out wrong...he's the witness. "Chain of command" has nothing to do with it; it's a legal matter and he's a witness to a horrible crime. At this point, we're all equals (because it's the law/society, not the coaching staff) and he owed those kids more. I suppose a 3rd option is that he condoned it, but I don't think so, or he'd not have even told Joe.

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So i'm a bit confused on what happened with the evidence that got sent to the district attorney (who is now presumed dead?). Years ago the police recorded audio of Sandusky half-admitting to a victim's mother that he touched her son inappropriately, and that evidence went to this DA. How long was that evidence in his possession before he went missing? And what do we know about how deep this goes, since this attorney went missing? How deep of a level of protection for this guy/the penn st program did this go?

That's obviously a bit out of proportion, but you never know with these things.

Fact is that the major onus of conjecture on JoePa is going to go to this graduate assistant that witnessed the shower rape, his subsequent correspondence with Paterno and what exactly happened immediately afterwards to silence everything.

This story is fascinating (in a horrifying way) in how deep it runs. There is gonna be a massive exodus coming soon to the PSU athletics organization, a cleansing fire.

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You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

It's either this or that he is so timid that he just wanted to tell someone "higher up" and put it out of his mind, lazily assuming that he'd done his part and justice will now be served. Either way, it is absolutely charitable to call him "irresponsible". It's just flat out wrong...he's the witness. "Chain of command" has nothing to do with it; it's a legal matter and he's a witness to a horrible crime. At this point, we're all equals (because it's the law/society, not the coaching staff) and he owed those kids more. I suppose a 3rd option is that he condoned it, but I don't think so, or he'd not have even told Joe.

Pretty spineless for a 28 year old man. This wasn't a "young man" who was new at this game. He was a man, and ultimately the one who enabled Sandusky more than anyone.

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You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

It's either this or that he is so timid that he just wanted to tell someone "higher up" and put it out of his mind, lazily assuming that he'd done his part and justice will now be served. Either way, it is absolutely charitable to call him "irresponsible". It's just flat out wrong...he's the witness. "Chain of command" has nothing to do with it; it's a legal matter and he's a witness to a horrible crime. At this point, we're all equals (because it's the law/society, not the coaching staff) and he owed those kids more. I suppose a 3rd option is that he condoned it, but I don't think so, or he'd not have even told Joe.

Another possibility, which I alluded to earlier, is that Sandusky knew too much. This guy was in the PSU program for, what, almost 30 years total? That’s a long time to be privy to the program’s inner workings and darkest secrets that, for all we know, could have been enough, once exposed, to bring the program and JoePa’s legacy to its knees with or without pedophilia entering the discussion. And if they did turn Sandusky in, he'd have nothing to lose by going all Nevin Shapiro on JoePa's @$$.

The thing is, that last part's still true. If Sandusky does have any of JoePa's own dirty laundry to air out, we shouldn't have long to wait to find out.

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You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

It's either this or that he is so timid that he just wanted to tell someone "higher up" and put it out of his mind, lazily assuming that he'd done his part and justice will now be served. Either way, it is absolutely charitable to call him "irresponsible". It's just flat out wrong...he's the witness. "Chain of command" has nothing to do with it; it's a legal matter and he's a witness to a horrible crime. At this point, we're all equals (because it's the law/society, not the coaching staff) and he owed those kids more. I suppose a 3rd option is that he condoned it, but I don't think so, or he'd not have even told Joe.

Another possibility, which I alluded to earlier, is that Sandusky knew too much. This guy was in the PSU program for, what, almost 30 years total? That’s a long time to be privy to the program’s inner workings and darkest secrets that, for all we know, could have been enough, once exposed, to bring the program and JoePa’s legacy to its knees with or without pedophilia entering the discussion. And if they did turn Sandusky in, he'd have nothing to lose by going all Nevin Shapiro on JoePa's @$$.

The thing is, that last part's still true. If Sandusky does have any of JoePa's own dirty laundry to air out, we shouldn't have long to wait to find out.

If that's the case, I feel that this is going to go down as the largest scandal in college sports history. I mean a coach who was raping little kids in the locker room for decades without being exposed, the possibility he could serve life for these crimes, a DA who dealt with this case went missing and was found is presumed dead, Joe Pa's apparently spotless (for the most part) reputation, ect. Parts of that are probably a coincidence, but this could be a scandal of epic proportions that even hollywood couldn't write. There are just too many things within all of this that just seem unfathomably strange.

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You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

It's either this or that he is so timid that he just wanted to tell someone "higher up" and put it out of his mind, lazily assuming that he'd done his part and justice will now be served. Either way, it is absolutely charitable to call him "irresponsible". It's just flat out wrong...he's the witness. "Chain of command" has nothing to do with it; it's a legal matter and he's a witness to a horrible crime. At this point, we're all equals (because it's the law/society, not the coaching staff) and he owed those kids more. I suppose a 3rd option is that he condoned it, but I don't think so, or he'd not have even told Joe.

Pretty spineless for a 28 year old man. This wasn't a "young man" who was new at this game. He was a man, and ultimately the one who enabled Sandusky more than anyone.

The janitor who witnessed Sandusky giving a blow job to one of the kids did the same thing...discussed it with his co-workers but never reported it in fear of losing his job. He was a Korean war vet who said it was as traumatizing as his stint in the war itself...and his co-workers thought he was going to have a heartattack when he was telling them.

The guy is now in stages of dementia in a nursing home and isn't fit to give testimony.

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You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

It's either this or that he is so timid that he just wanted to tell someone "higher up" and put it out of his mind, lazily assuming that he'd done his part and justice will now be served. Either way, it is absolutely charitable to call him "irresponsible". It's just flat out wrong...he's the witness. "Chain of command" has nothing to do with it; it's a legal matter and he's a witness to a horrible crime. At this point, we're all equals (because it's the law/society, not the coaching staff) and he owed those kids more. I suppose a 3rd option is that he condoned it, but I don't think so, or he'd not have even told Joe.

Pretty spineless for a 28 year old man. This wasn't a "young man" who was new at this game. He was a man, and ultimately the one who enabled Sandusky more than anyone.

The janitor who witnessed Sandusky giving a blow job to one of the kids did the same thing...discussed it with his co-workers but never reported it in fear of losing his job. He was a Korean war vet who said it was as traumatizing as his stint in the war itself...and his co-workers thought he was going to have a heartattack when he was telling them.

The guy is now in stages of dementia in a nursing home and isn't fit to give testimony.

Wow. It seems that a lot of people were hearing about this. It must have been circulating around PSU enough to be rumor with legs...Lots of people did not want to know...

This may be, in a way, the most disheartening comment on humans; that so many just kind of tried to forget about it rather than address it.

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You know, I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and the only thing I can come up with that even seems possible is that the guy who was a GA was young, doing everything he could to move up in the coaching world (which is highly prestigious and difficult to get into), and essentially sacrificed the well-being of that young boy for the potential to further his own career. It doesn't make it any less sick, but I feel his reasoning was that if he DID report it to the authorities or confront Sandusky personally, he feared that he would be shunned from the Penn State program and blackballed from the coaching profession. It's the only thing that seems even close to logical in all of this mess. He saw his own career being flushed down the toilet for reporting a guy as "upstanding" as Sandusky (who would've undoubtedly denied it), panicked, made an extremely foolish decision in an attempt to save his own ass, and it ended up being the worst decision he's ever made. There's simply nothing else I can come up with that even sounds remotely logical other than that.

Not that any of this is logical, though...

It's either this or that he is so timid that he just wanted to tell someone "higher up" and put it out of his mind, lazily assuming that he'd done his part and justice will now be served. Either way, it is absolutely charitable to call him "irresponsible". It's just flat out wrong...he's the witness. "Chain of command" has nothing to do with it; it's a legal matter and he's a witness to a horrible crime. At this point, we're all equals (because it's the law/society, not the coaching staff) and he owed those kids more. I suppose a 3rd option is that he condoned it, but I don't think so, or he'd not have even told Joe.

Pretty spineless for a 28 year old man. This wasn't a "young man" who was new at this game. He was a man, and ultimately the one who enabled Sandusky more than anyone.

The janitor who witnessed Sandusky giving a blow job to one of the kids did the same thing...discussed it with his co-workers but never reported it in fear of losing his job. He was a Korean war vet who said it was as traumatizing as his stint in the war itself...and his co-workers thought he was going to have a heartattack when he was telling them.

The guy is now in stages of dementia in a nursing home and isn't fit to give testimony.

However, if McQueary was the janitor with a child, you know darn well he would have stepped in.

We are essentially into Day 3 of the news cycle and outside of accepting the resignation of one of those charged and placing the other on administrative leave, the University has officially said little (but for the SID to say that Paterno will only talk about football today)and done even less.

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We are witnessing the end of Penn State football as we know it.

It will be 10-15 years before they recover, and that's not an exaggeration...

...and they brought this hell upon themselves.

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They knew the investigation was ongoing, plus they have had three days since this story broke and no comment from the University.

This is not getting any smaller by waiting longer. Plus, State College is not the easiest place to get to so for 100+ reporters to go and get handed a Xerox of a one sentence statement is irresponsible. The governor needs to take action if the school president won't.

Penn State's student paper has a good timeline.

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Does the Big Ten have any obligation here? Should Penn State be barred from participating in conference games? Institutionalized support of child rape should supercede any other consideration (which, apparently, it already has).

This is criminal activity whic does not include a student-athlete, so the NCAA needs to stay out for the most part.

The Big XII did not penalize Baylor conference games when Patrick Dennehy was murdered by teammate Carlton Dodson. They were penalized for their NCAA violations.

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If I'm a Penn State fan and I have tickets to the game against Nebraska, there's no way I'm going to the game on Saturday.

Wait... Are you saying that cheering on Penn State is the equivalent of supporting child molestation?

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We are witnessing the end of Penn State football as we know it.

It will be 10-15 years before they recover, and that's not an exaggeration...

...and they brought this hell upon themselves.

Right on both counts, I'd guess.

Minnesota basketball took a long time to recover from Clem Haskins's academic scandal. Some at Wisconsin think it took the hockey team a decade to recover from it's 1992 Nat'l title game loss (specifically the subsequent on-ice meltdown in berating the refs).

This makes things like that look like nuthin'. There is no longer going to be a draw to going to Penn State. No "JoePa", no "Great Legacy" as that is tarnished. Just an uneasy feeling about a culture that will sweep something like this under the rug.

If I was a PSU fan/alum, I'd take a 10 to 15 year recovery if offered. They might never recover. They might become Indiana and maybe, given the culture of football in that state, move up to Purdue/Northwestern/Wisconsin status. But the "big 4" programs of the Big Ten just became the "big 3" programs for some time and maybe forever.

And yes, they brought it on themselves. If Paterno (and you cannot just blame him) and the rest of the Athletic Department/University would have nipped this in the bud, the program would have taken some bad press and looked bad for a while, but ultimately, it would have been one bad apple and "kudos to JoePa and the University for addressing it swiftly and appropriately." Covering up a bar fight to try to win games is one thing, but this! They made their bed when they turned their collective head.

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If I'm a Penn State fan and I have tickets to the game against Nebraska, there's no way I'm going to the game on Saturday.

Wait... Are you saying that cheering on Penn State is the equivalent of supporting child molestation?

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If I'm a Penn State fan and I have tickets to the game against Nebraska, there's no way I'm going to the game on Saturday.

Wait... Are you saying that cheering on Penn State is the equivalent of supporting child molestation?

I wouldn't want to because of the circus that will be around the stadium.

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