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Say it ain't so, Joe


Viper
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Why does Penn State need to 'take a step back'. Is there any indication that anyone on the staff was involved? If so purge them. Other than that get on with it. It's a goddam football program. Make sure anyone involved is long gone, perhaps get the Athletic Department to monitor closely who is on Campus and why, and let the innocent play.

Guess they shouldn't have imposed any punishment on USC then, huh? Those players were long gone, as was the coach. But the school still lost scholarships, and still has a bowl ban.

Look, when Enron went down, it took a lot of "innocents" with it. Was it fair that they lost their jobs because other people broke the rules?

Besides, part of the reason for punishing a program is about creating a disincentive for other programs to exhibit the same behavior. An example must be set that terrible actions will be met with terrible consequences.

If Penn State gets anything less than a five-year ban I'll think it far too lenient. Personally, I'd impose the death penalty; a decade-long coverup of child rape on campus certainly merits it.

And it's pretty unfair that Matt Barkley and the rest of the Trojans won't get a chance to potentially play in the BCS this year because Reggie Bush got a bunch of free stuff. But there's not really any good way to punish teams. You don't have any jurisdiction over past players/coaches that are gone and what's left at the school didn't have ivolvement in the violations.

Matt Barkley and the rest of his teammates had the opportunity to transfer to another school where they were bowl eligible without having to sit out.

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That sounds great, until you realize that it means the player has to go through the recruiting process again, join a new system without the typical redshirt learning year, leave behind his friends and the college life he had build for himself, and (there are some athletes who take this stuff seriously) leave behind whatever academic progress he had achieved and enter a new program. For many majors it's no big deal. But for some, it's like starting over from scratch.

These are still 20-year-old kids, not pros. Transferring is a little more traumatic than it sounds, especially if you stayed in-state or close to home, like a lot of players at schools like PSU and Ohio S U.

Punishing the innocent is stupid - whether it's in college sports or anywhere else in life. Just because it's been done doesn't make it right either, and I'm a little disapointed that "well that's how it's always been" seems to be the rational for supporting that. You guys (well, some of you) are better than that.

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That sounds great, until you realize that it means the player has to go through the recruiting process again, join a new system without the typical redshirt learning year, leave behind his friends and the college life he had build for himself, and (there are some athletes who take this stuff seriously) leave behind whatever academic progress he had achieved and enter a new program. For many majors it's no big deal. But for some, it's like starting over from scratch.

These are still 20-year-old kids, not pros. Transferring is a little more traumatic than it sounds, especially if you stayed in-state or close to home, like a lot of players at schools like PSU and Ohio S U.

Punishing the innocent is stupid - whether it's in college sports or anywhere else in life. Just because it's been done doesn't make it right either, and I'm a little disapointed that "well that's how it's always been" seems to be the rational for supporting that. You guys (well, some of you) are better than that.

Right on!

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I don't know that anyone's using "because that's the way it's done" as a justification, only for refuting the notion put forward here that this would somehow be an unusual or unheard-of punishment.

Frankly, I don't much care if current players are inconvenienced. A shame, yes, but that's life. And that in itself is in no way a sufficient excuse for allowing Penn State as an institution to escape the punishment they so richly earned.

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I don't know that anyone's using "because that's the way it's done" as a justification, only for refuting the notion put forward here that this would somehow be an unusual or unheard-of punishment.

Frankly, I don't much care if current players are inconvenienced. A shame, yes, but that's life. And that in itself is in no way a sufficient excuse for allowing Penn State as an institution to escape the punishment they so richly earned.

You mean the millions of dollars in settlement money they will be paying?

Blasting the football team for actions taken by individuals that themselves were not even designed to help the football team is a little out of bounds in my book. The Penn State football team did not directly benefit from the coverup-their mascot, Joe Paterno may have, but Joe Paterno is not actually the Penn State football team.

-------------------------------------

Of course, if you really want to get particulars, the NCAA has set precedent within the last few months that the coach and the institution are not the same thing in the case of Ohio State. I'm not quite sure they'd want to sail into the legal maelstrom a sudden about face would cause.

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Civil judgments don't alleviate the need for criminal punishments, nor do they alleviate the need for institutional consequences.

Obviously, civil judgments weren't enough disincentive, but an NCAA death penalty might make the next program a little skittish about covering up child rape.

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I think the prospect of losing millions of dollars and the certainty of ruined reputation and ended careers in both athletic departments and University Administration sectors will provide plenty of future deterrent.

I think there's going to be plenty of skittishness, especially coming from University Administrations, in the future without a football death penalty.

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I don't know that anyone's using "because that's the way it's done" as a justification, only for refuting the notion put forward here that this would somehow be an unusual or unheard-of punishment.

Frankly, I don't much care if current players are inconvenienced. A shame, yes, but that's life. And that in itself is in no way a sufficient excuse for allowing Penn State as an institution to escape the punishment they so richly earned.

An easy opinion to have when it's not your life.

Way to get your photo on UW, btw.

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I don't know that anyone's using "because that's the way it's done" as a justification, only for refuting the notion put forward here that this would somehow be an unusual or unheard-of punishment.

Frankly, I don't much care if current players are inconvenienced. A shame, yes, but that's life. And that in itself is in no way a sufficient excuse for allowing Penn State as an institution to escape the punishment they so richly earned.

An easy opinion to have when it's not your life.

Actually, even if it were my life, I would understand that the current situation is bigger than my personal one. And that it is going to have a bigger affect on what happens to the team than what I want.

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I don't know that anyone's using "because that's the way it's done" as a justification, only for refuting the notion put forward here that this would somehow be an unusual or unheard-of punishment.

Frankly, I don't much care if current players are inconvenienced. A shame, yes, but that's life. And that in itself is in no way a sufficient excuse for allowing Penn State as an institution to escape the punishment they so richly earned.

An easy opinion to have when it's not your life.

Actually, even if it were my life, I would understand that the current situation is bigger than my personal one. And that it is going to have a bigger affect on what happens to the team than what I want.

The current situation certainly is bigger than each player's personal one. There's no argument there. And even without sanctions, the program is already damaged. The current players simply have to deal with that - one of those things that happens outside of your control. Again - no argument. But unless it's totally necessary, it doesn't make sense to further mess with the innocent players by forcing them to make an extremely tough decision (at least tough for the mid-level players - the stars would have to transfer to keep playing, and the hangers-on wouldn't be recruited probably) about starting their college life over and uprooting their lives (which simply isn't that easy for everyone) or forgoing their football dreams to maintain whatever it is they're doing. Calling that an "inconvenience" is comically ridiculous (I know you weren't the one who said that.) There are certainly times where punishing the innocent is unavoidable, and in that case, that's just a bad break. And it's certainly possible that this may turn out to be one of those cases (once everything comes out, of course.) But if not, and it turns into a sanction-for-sanction's-sake (SFSS?), then that's terrible.

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I don't know that anyone's using "because that's the way it's done" as a justification, only for refuting the notion put forward here that this would somehow be an unusual or unheard-of punishment.

Frankly, I don't much care if current players are inconvenienced. A shame, yes, but that's life. And that in itself is in no way a sufficient excuse for allowing Penn State as an institution to escape the punishment they so richly earned.

An easy opinion to have when it's not your life.

Way to get your photo on UW, btw.

From Thursday? That was a fun time, especially since I keep missing the Brooklyn meetups.

Of course it's easy for me to say. This is the Internet, after all. Everything's easy to say, including that the NCAA shouldn't get involved. Doesn't mean that we all haven't fully considered our positions

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I could easily wind up seeing this turn into one of those do you really want to know situations very quickly. I don't think anyone is buying the idea that he waited until he was 50 years old to start sexually abusing young boys. This is someone who's been at Penn State for nearly as long as Joe Pa was.

As it is now you do have to question everything that has gone on at Penn State with their football program for as long as Jerry Sandusky was there, which is about 40 years. But its one thing to question it. Its quite another to prove it. If its proven right, I don't know what you can do.

I've been under the impression that no school's football program could be in any worse shape then SMU, but I think this is far worse. Best case scenairo for Penn State, nothing else happens, but I think everyone knows this story is far from being over. This is going to continue to be front page news well into next year. The worst may be over, but nobody knows for sure.

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Alleged Sandusky "Victim One" bullied out of his high school

Sadly, who is surprised by this kind of behavior/mindset? God (or the universe or whatever), help us.

That'll teach him to speak out...all other victims take notice, keep it to yourself!

(note the sarcasm)

My reaction was the basic "stay classy PSU fans", but it's really more a sad commentary on everyone...I don't think this same story with this beloved of a coach would be any different anywhere else...

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If anyone out there is still putting Joe Paterno on a pedestal because he ran his program "the right way" and demanded a higher standard from his players than other college football coaches do, you can stop now.

To wit: Joe Paterno blackmailed university officials into leniency toward his players, and potentially influenced university staffing outside his department, by threatening to cut off his substantial fundraising pull.

Now, tell me that same man, simply passing on child rape allegations along the chain of command, was doing all he could do.

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