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Say it ain't so, Joe


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Personally I think shutting down the football team for any period of time won't happen. And I'm not sure it would resolve anything.

I disagree. Paterno developed a cult of personality there, which allowed the program to wield unchecked power at the school. Nuking the football program would allow the administration to re-focus its priorities without having to deal with the legacy of Paterno's cancerous influence beyond the football program.

Shutting the football program down could also do wonders for the cult-like atmosphere. Make no mistake about it, they view that program as Paterno's program. Every season his program takes the field is another year the Paterno loyalists get to try and drum up sentimentality for the memory of their surrogate grandpa. If you kill the football program you remove the crentrepiece of the problem that allowed all of this to happen.

Wait ten or fifteen years. Let new alumni who aren't tainted by the Cult of Paterno come into their own. Let the administration go a decade and a half without them feeling they have to appease the football program in some way. Let new crops of students come and go without having to accept Paterno's program as a fact of campus life.

After ten or fifteen years they can re-apply. Hopefully, by then, they can make the best out of a fresh start and gain a little perspective.

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The NCAA does not want Penn State to struggle like SMU did. 27 years between bowl games and a severely depleted program.

Yes, let's not lose sight of what's truly important here and what needs to be protected.

The NCAA's very existence and the continued money train?

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The NCAA does not want Penn State to struggle like SMU did. 27 years between bowl games and a severely depleted program.

Yes, let's not lose sight of what's truly important here and what needs to be protected.

The NCAA's very existence and the continued money train?

I'm sorry but there are 120 members of the FBS alone to say nothing of the rest of college sports. The NCAA is not going to miss one football team that deserves to be shuttered for its own good for a few years. The benefits far outweigh any losses. Particularly given the NCAA's credibility as a governing body could be called into question if Penn St. isn't punished. And frankly Penn St. losing its money train is a good thing. Being punished by losing that profit they were making off their team is exactly WHY they need to have their program stripped. It's not just the football program that needs to be punished but the whole school. This wasn't just a football coverup. This went all the way to the top at PSU.

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Personally I think shutting down the football team for any period of time won't happen. And I'm not sure it would resolve anything.

I disagree. Paterno developed a cult of personality there, which allowed the program to wield unchecked power at the school. Nuking the football program would allow the administration to re-focus its priorities without having to deal with the legacy of Paterno's cancerous influence beyond the football program.

Shutting the football program down could also do wonders for the cult-like atmosphere. Make no mistake about it, they view that program as Paterno's program. Every season his program takes the field is another year the Paterno loyalists get to try and drum up sentimentality for the memory of their surrogate grandpa. If you kill the football program you remove the crentrepiece of the problem that allowed all of this to happen.

Wait ten or fifteen years. Let new alumni who aren't tainted by the Cult of Paterno come into their own. Let the administration go a decade and a half without them feeling they have to appease the football program in some way. Let new crops of students come and go without having to accept Paterno's program as a fact of campus life.

After ten or fifteen years they can re-apply. Hopefully, by then, they can the best out of a fresh start and gain a limitless perspective.

I'm in the same line thinking. If you do nothing then there's nothing stopping the Unversity from going right back to the same line of thinking that got them in this mess in the first place, which I'm not completely convinced they've gotten away from anyway. You could make a decent argument the football program has to go to uphold everthing else the University is trying to accomplish. If Penn State exists to serve the football program as appears to have been the case to some degree over the past decade, then something is terribly wrong.

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Personally I think shutting down the football team for any period of time won't happen. And I'm not sure it would resolve anything.

I disagree. Paterno developed a cult of personality there, which allowed the program to wield unchecked power at the school. Nuking the football program would allow the administration to re-focus its priorities without having to deal with the legacy of Paterno's cancerous influence beyond the football program.

Shutting the football program down could also do wonders for the cult-like atmosphere. Make no mistake about it, they view that program as Paterno's program. Every season his program takes the field is another year the Paterno loyalists get to try and drum up sentimentality for the memory of their surrogate grandpa. If you kill the football program you remove the crentrepiece of the problem that allowed all of this to happen.

Wait ten or fifteen years. Let new alumni who aren't tainted by the Cult of Paterno come into their own. Let the administration go a decade and a half without them feeling they have to appease the football program in some way. Let new crops of students come and go without having to accept Paterno's program as a fact of campus life.

After ten or fifteen years they can re-apply. Hopefully, by then, they can the best out of a fresh start and gain a limitless perspective.

I'm in the same line thinking. If you do nothing then there's nothing stopping the Unversity from going right back to the same line of thinking that got them in this mess in the first place, which I'm not completely convinced they've gotten away from anyway. You could make a decent argument the football program has to go to uphold everthing else the University is trying to accomplish. If Penn State exists to serve the football program as appears to have been the case to some degree over the past decade, then something is terribly wrong.

I won't be shocked if the program was terminated, pmoehrin and Ice_Cap, but I want to wait until what the NCAA and/or Penn State does to the football program.

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The strength, influence, revenue-generating capability, etc. of major college football programs has lead to countless cases of corruption and cover-ups. This one is clearly the worst crime / violation and the most disgusting cover up of them all. I think that it's not unreasonable to think that this is an indictment of how we treat big-time college sports as a whole, as much as it is about the failings of the leadership of PSU. I'm not going to go as far as to say that this kind of thing could happen anywhere, because (to date) it hasn't happened anywhere else, but it's not unreasonable to think that there are cover ups just as big that haven't been found out yet, all for the protection of the golden goose.

I'm coming around to the idea that PSU football should take a year off, to send the message that it's not the be-all end-all of the college experience, and that they won't be owned by the program that pays for so much of what goes on. I would also hope that this would lead to reform at D1 schools across the nation, because I'm sure that the infrastructure is in place at a lot of institutions for this same type of thing to happen.

How do you fix it? This may seem ridiculous, and I'm just spit balling, but maybe something like a "term limit" for coaches, so that they don't stay at the same place for 50 years and essentially become the place? That may not be legal, but at the very least, the whole "we'll handle it in-house" mentality needs to stop, and if that means re-aligning the athletic departments within the various departments in the school so that they're not essentially autonomous units, then maybe that would help. The obvious thing would be to simply reform D-1 football as a whole, and reduce the money involved, increase the academic standards, and put even more recruiting rules in place (as well as the additional oversight), but that's just not going to happen.

As for the cult-like support, yeah - it's nauseating. It's also the minority, despite it being the loudest (as is the case most of the time in situations like this. The intelligent people who understand what's happening aren't likely to be the type of morons who jump on Twitter and are all like "screw you guys joe-pa rocks he didn't screw boyz WEAREPENNSTATE!!! FU!!!". Unfortunately, the more intelligent the person, the more reserved they are when it comes to commenting, so you don't hear it. Let's be realistic here - it's no different than the cult-like support at the majority of the top-tier football schools, and probably not close to on-par with the cult-following around many of the southern programs. From an unbiased POV (I have zero affiliation with the school, other than completing a certification program at one of the local branch campuses more than a decade ago), it's just silly to think that if this was another school, we wouldn't be posting the exact same stuff, just replacing the school's name and coach's name.

Also, the Paterno family needs to just shut up for a while. It's pretty difficult to argue with this type of investigation, and especially so soon. If there really is more to come (which I find hard to believe, considering how in-depth this investigation was) then just wait for it to come. Otherwise, any publicity is bad publicity for them right now.

As for PSU switching the channel in the HUB when the press conference started, I found it hard to believe that they'd screw this thing up even worse, so I poked around the internet and found a few accounts that claimed that the switch was made from CNN to PCN (Pennsylvania Cable News - kind of like CSPAN for PA) because the conference was supposed to be carried there but for some reason the other debate was being shown. I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds reasonable enough (not sure why they wanted to avoid CNN's coverage in favor of PCN's coverage though - that part is still fishy.)

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Also, since the scope of the investigation was limited to PSU employees, when does current governor and then DA Tom Corbett get investigated? Apparently he headed an investigation into Sandusky in 2009, but never assigned anyone to follow up on the findings.

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The NCAA does not want Penn State to struggle like SMU did. 27 years between bowl games and a severely depleted program.

Yes, let's not lose sight of what's truly important here and what needs to be protected.

The NCAA's very existence and the continued money train?

Choo-choo!

The school won't suspend the program because it'll still put 100,000 fans in the seats 6 times a year, regardless of scandal or record. The Big Ten won't kick Penn State out because they just had their first big-money championship game, you need 12 teams in your conference to have such a game, and courtship of a new conference member is a multi-year process. And the NCAA won't kill the program because hey, there's just way too much money whizzing around here to stop it, and maybe some of that money could go toward giving one student a partial scholarship or something, because it's all about the kids here.

Penn State will get a few scholarships taken away, and they'll get something like a 3-year bowl ban, which won't matter anyway because that team's not reaching 6 wins in the next three years anyway, and the NCAA will bluster about justice done and integrity and blah blah blah. Those most vested in broadcasting the message will happily swallow this all up, parrot it to the masses, and everyone will move on without a second thought.

I think Penn State's football program should get the death penalty and Paterno's statue should come down. I have no reason to believe either of those things will happen.

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The NCAA does not want Penn State to struggle like SMU did. 27 years between bowl games and a severely depleted program.

Yes, let's not lose sight of what's truly important here and what needs to be protected.

The NCAA's very existence and the continued money train?

I'm sorry but there are 120 members of the FBS alone to say nothing of the rest of college sports. The NCAA is not going to miss one football team that deserves to be shuttered for its own good for a few years. The benefits far outweigh any losses. Particularly given the NCAA's credibility as a governing body could be called into question if Penn St. isn't punished. And frankly Penn St. losing its money train is a good thing. Being punished by losing that profit they were making off their team is exactly WHY they need to have their program stripped. It's not just the football program that needs to be punished but the whole school. This wasn't just a football coverup. This went all the way to the top at PSU.

You don't seem to quite understand the dynamics at work, so I'll say it again. If the NCAA imposes the death penalty, the Big Ten, Big XII, SEC, Pac 12, and ACC will break away from the organization, and there's nothing the NCAA can do to stop it. It's really quite powerless in regards to this sort of thing.

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See, I don't think that'll happen. The severity of the crimes and coverup committed at Penn State work to the NCAA's advantage. What happened was worse then points shaving or fixing games. What happened was pretty heinous, which means the NCAA would have public opinion on their side should they choose to shut down the PSU football program.

The major conferences, even if they opposed the NCAA wielding their power in that way, really wouldn't have a leg to stand on in the court of public opinion. Let's say the NCAA shuts down Penn State's football program because it enabled a child rapist for a decade. What can the conferences say to your average, generally anti-child rape, fan to justify opposing an NCAA decision like that to the point of conference secession?

On top of that the NCAA is still needed in the realms of other sports. If the NCAA is so impotent and unimportant that its major D1 football conferences could just walk away over one decision they don't like they would have by now.

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some thoughts:

The statue thing is crazy because it's pretty much exactly like Bud Kilmer at the end of "Varsity Blues".

"The statue still stands, but only because it was too heavy to move".

Wait, it just dawned on me how dumb that line is. They moved it there to begin with, they could remove it if they wanted to. Come on, West Canaan.

Anyways, if the statue's not removed, and I don't think it will be, it'll be a disgraceful reminder of one of the worst scandals any of us have ever seen. Does Penn State really want that?

I'm thinking about going to Happy Valley for the Ohio U - Penn State game this September. It'll be the first game since Jo Paterno's death and it'll be interesting to see how they handle it. Moment of silence? Tribute video? How could they get away that? I'll be dressed in green and white, thank you very much.

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What if (and this is a big "what if") the Big Ten and/or just PSU was to say that they'll be making a multi-million dollar donation to various youth organizations out of proceeds from the 2012 season (I know, they already have the money to do this, I'm just saying "what if") then the NCAA could say that halting their operations would take money away from said organizations.

Not arguing, just presenting a way that they could justify not shutting it down for a while.

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See, I don't think that'll happen. The severity of the crimes and coverup committed at Penn State work to the NCAA's advantage. What happened was worse then points shaving or fixing games. What happened was pretty heinous, which means the NCAA would have public opinion on their side should they choose to shut down the PSU football program.

The major conferences, even if they opposed the NCAA wielding their power in that way, really wouldn't have a leg to stand on in the court of public opinion. Let's say the NCAA shuts down Penn State's football program because it enabled a child rapist for a decade. What can the conferences say to your average, generally anti-child rape, fan to justify opposing an NCAA decision like that to the point of conference secession?

Just play the alma mater and point out the increase in opponent quality in the College Football Premiership. And we'll keep a close eye on Penn State! We swear! Just like Nelson at Copenhagen!

And it'll work too.

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I dunno. It seems like a lot of the diehard fans are all in this together; I could see where the schools would be too. I'm reading from a lot of Big Ten fans who don't want Penn State nuked because it would affect the games they were supposed to play against them and hurt their strength of schedule. (Sigh, yeah.) It wouldn't surprise me if the football schools banded together to protect their right to not be shut down for systematic child rape; the Mafia operates with more honor than college football does.

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As for PSU switching the channel in the HUB when the press conference started, I found it hard to believe that they'd screw this thing up even worse, so I poked around the internet and found a few accounts that claimed that the switch was made from CNN to PCN (Pennsylvania Cable News - kind of like CSPAN for PA) because the conference was supposed to be carried there but for some reason the other debate was being shown. I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds reasonable enough (not sure why they wanted to avoid CNN's coverage in favor of PCN's coverage though - that part is still fishy.)

I swear, as long as I was there, it was virtually CNN 24/7 there. They have a lounge with couches and they have those wall-mounted TV's throughout the building (i.e. food court, bookstore, etc). To be fair, I've not been there since I graduated in 2008, so in 4 years something may be different now. However, it'd really have to be something for them to change those channels...

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As for PSU switching the channel in the HUB when the press conference started, I found it hard to believe that they'd screw this thing up even worse, so I poked around the internet and found a few accounts that claimed that the switch was made from CNN to PCN (Pennsylvania Cable News - kind of like CSPAN for PA) because the conference was supposed to be carried there but for some reason the other debate was being shown. I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds reasonable enough (not sure why they wanted to avoid CNN's coverage in favor of PCN's coverage though - that part is still fishy.)

I swear, as long as I was there, it was virtually CNN 24/7 there. They have a lounge with couches and they have those wall-mounted TV's throughout the building (i.e. food court, bookstore, etc). To be fair, I've not been there since I graduated in 2008, so in 4 years something may be different now. However, it'd really have to be something for them to change those channels...

I was working, so I wasn't near any TVs - was it known that CNN would cover it live? I know that ESPN was, and I think Comcast was (but they probably wouldn't have Comcast out there), but could it be that someone didn't know that it'd be on CNN? Again, I wasn't near any TVs, so if CNN was constantly advertising "tune in at 9 for the live press conference!", then yeah - it doesn't make any sense to change it.

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As for PSU switching the channel in the HUB when the press conference started, I found it hard to believe that they'd screw this thing up even worse, so I poked around the internet and found a few accounts that claimed that the switch was made from CNN to PCN (Pennsylvania Cable News - kind of like CSPAN for PA) because the conference was supposed to be carried there but for some reason the other debate was being shown. I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds reasonable enough (not sure why they wanted to avoid CNN's coverage in favor of PCN's coverage though - that part is still fishy.)

I swear, as long as I was there, it was virtually CNN 24/7 there. They have a lounge with couches and they have those wall-mounted TV's throughout the building (i.e. food court, bookstore, etc). To be fair, I've not been there since I graduated in 2008, so in 4 years something may be different now. However, it'd really have to be something for them to change those channels...

I was working, so I wasn't near any TVs - was it known that CNN would cover it live? I know that ESPN was, and I think Comcast was (but they probably wouldn't have Comcast out there), but could it be that someone didn't know that it'd be on CNN? Again, I wasn't near any TVs, so if CNN was constantly advertising "tune in at 9 for the live press conference!", then yeah - it doesn't make any sense to change it.

Couldn't tell ya. I live in San Diego now, this all had happened by the time I woke up.

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As for PSU switching the channel in the HUB when the press conference started, I found it hard to believe that they'd screw this thing up even worse, so I poked around the internet and found a few accounts that claimed that the switch was made from CNN to PCN (Pennsylvania Cable News - kind of like CSPAN for PA) because the conference was supposed to be carried there but for some reason the other debate was being shown. I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds reasonable enough (not sure why they wanted to avoid CNN's coverage in favor of PCN's coverage though - that part is still fishy.)

I swear, as long as I was there, it was virtually CNN 24/7 there. They have a lounge with couches and they have those wall-mounted TV's throughout the building (i.e. food court, bookstore, etc). To be fair, I've not been there since I graduated in 2008, so in 4 years something may be different now. However, it'd really have to be something for them to change those channels...

I was working, so I wasn't near any TVs - was it known that CNN would cover it live? I know that ESPN was, and I think Comcast was (but they probably wouldn't have Comcast out there), but could it be that someone didn't know that it'd be on CNN? Again, I wasn't near any TVs, so if CNN was constantly advertising "tune in at 9 for the live press conference!", then yeah - it doesn't make any sense to change it.

I would expect most PA stations to cover it. I know the Philadelphia news stations had it live

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As for PSU switching the channel in the HUB when the press conference started, I found it hard to believe that they'd screw this thing up even worse, so I poked around the internet and found a few accounts that claimed that the switch was made from CNN to PCN (Pennsylvania Cable News - kind of like CSPAN for PA) because the conference was supposed to be carried there but for some reason the other debate was being shown. I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds reasonable enough (not sure why they wanted to avoid CNN's coverage in favor of PCN's coverage though - that part is still fishy.)

I swear, as long as I was there, it was virtually CNN 24/7 there. They have a lounge with couches and they have those wall-mounted TV's throughout the building (i.e. food court, bookstore, etc). To be fair, I've not been there since I graduated in 2008, so in 4 years something may be different now. However, it'd really have to be something for them to change those channels...

I was working, so I wasn't near any TVs - was it known that CNN would cover it live? I know that ESPN was, and I think Comcast was (but they probably wouldn't have Comcast out there), but could it be that someone didn't know that it'd be on CNN? Again, I wasn't near any TVs, so if CNN was constantly advertising "tune in at 9 for the live press conference!", then yeah - it doesn't make any sense to change it.

I would expect most PA stations to cover it. I know the Philadelphia news stations had it live

Well yeah... that's why I'm saying that maybe that's why they changed to PCN. They wouldn't have Philadelphia news out in western PA. My question is whether or not it was well known that cnn would have it live.

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As for PSU switching the channel in the HUB when the press conference started, I found it hard to believe that they'd screw this thing up even worse, so I poked around the internet and found a few accounts that claimed that the switch was made from CNN to PCN (Pennsylvania Cable News - kind of like CSPAN for PA) because the conference was supposed to be carried there but for some reason the other debate was being shown. I have no idea how true that is, but it sounds reasonable enough (not sure why they wanted to avoid CNN's coverage in favor of PCN's coverage though - that part is still fishy.)

I swear, as long as I was there, it was virtually CNN 24/7 there. They have a lounge with couches and they have those wall-mounted TV's throughout the building (i.e. food court, bookstore, etc). To be fair, I've not been there since I graduated in 2008, so in 4 years something may be different now. However, it'd really have to be something for them to change those channels...

I was working, so I wasn't near any TVs - was it known that CNN would cover it live? I know that ESPN was, and I think Comcast was (but they probably wouldn't have Comcast out there), but could it be that someone didn't know that it'd be on CNN? Again, I wasn't near any TVs, so if CNN was constantly advertising "tune in at 9 for the live press conference!", then yeah - it doesn't make any sense to change it.

I would expect most PA stations to cover it. I know the Philadelphia news stations had it live

Well yeah... that's why I'm saying that maybe that's why they changed to PCN. They wouldn't have Philadelphia news out in western PA. My question is whether or not it was well known that cnn would have it live.

Their local news affiliates are either Pittsburgh/Altoona/Johnstown depending on the station.

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