Say it ain't so, Joe

[The_Admiral]

I was kind of hoping "abusenik" would become the prevalent term, personally.

Yeah, we're lucky to be spared from the lunatic fringe that still lives and dies with Penn State. There might be one or two of them here, but they're not principals. I think rams80 is about as far on the other side of the spectrum as we're getting, and he's not that far down at all.

[coozapalooza]

I'd like to know who these "Joepoligists" are everyone's so inflamed about. I don't see any of them around these parts.

Not that it's around these parts, but if you want to see how pathetic it can be look on Facebook. I saw a fan page the other day called "Protect Joe Paterno" which was just sad. And then there's the one for the former "Paternoville" where a kid said he hopes Tim Tebow rapes a kid so ESPN could talk about that instead, among many more idiotic posts.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I'd like to know who these "Joepoligists" are everyone's so inflamed about. I don't see any of them around these parts.

Not that it's around these parts, but if you want to see how pathetic it can be look on Facebook. I saw a fan page the other day called "Protect Joe Paterno" which was just sad. And then there's the one for the former "Paternoville" where a kid said he hopes Tim Tebow rapes a kid so ESPN could talk about that instead, among many more idiotic posts.

Maybe it's because I've been watching Louie on Netflix, but I took your last sentence as a joke. (I shouldn't have, right?)

[rams80]

I dunno, mitigating and apologizing seems to have worked out reasonably well for the Catholic Church. Just so long as banks are willing to loan the church the money to pay off its legal settlements.

It has? Last I checked most Catholics are still pissed at the Church with its handling of their scandal, with attendance down at mass on average between 15 and 40% across much of the globe including here in the US. And the losses haven't stopped. In fact only 42% of American Catholics even go to Mass anymore which is down 11% from 2000 (and one of the big reasons is the church's loss of moral authority due to the scandal.

You think Penn State sees even a 15% attendance drop this year?

Probably not, but they've got a lot fewer seats to fill and a waiting list. I don't think the Catholic church is hurting as much as you say it is though. Shoot, we're hitting the point where Protestant bodies commend the Catholic Church for its "moral stands".

I do think we shouldn't dismiss the Catholic scandal as being inapplicable here. Not only do we have a systemic coverup organized by the highest-ups in the organization, but we even have a kindly old grandfather figure who turned out to be a bit of an with regards to this in the form of Pope John Paul II. Only they beatified him and gave him a "the Great" epithet.

[OnWis97]

I'd like to know who these "Joepoligists" are everyone's so inflamed about. I don't see any of them around these parts.

Not that it's around these parts, but if you want to see how pathetic it can be look on Facebook. I saw a fan page the other day called "Protect Joe Paterno" which was just sad. And then there's the one for the former "Paternoville" where a kid said he hopes Tim Tebow rapes a kid so ESPN could talk about that instead, among many more idiotic posts.

Yeah, while this is my biggest time-wasting place on the Web, it seems that there are a lot of Joepologists elsewere. I don't think the posters in this thread really reflect the population at large, for reasons about which I am unsure. There are, of course, the long time fans in denial, but I've also read some "sure, it's easy to blame a dead guy that can't defend himself" or "he made one mistake and did so much good" in various places. Like I said, not around here though.

[bosrs1]

I dunno, mitigating and apologizing seems to have worked out reasonably well for the Catholic Church. Just so long as banks are willing to loan the church the money to pay off its legal settlements.

It has? Last I checked most Catholics are still pissed at the Church with its handling of their scandal, with attendance down at mass on average between 15 and 40% across much of the globe including here in the US. And the losses haven't stopped. In fact only 42% of American Catholics even go to Mass anymore which is down 11% from 2000 (and one of the big reasons is the church's loss of moral authority due to the scandal.

You think Penn State sees even a 15% attendance drop this year?

Probably not, but they've got a lot fewer seats to fill and a waiting list. I don't think the Catholic church is hurting as much as you say it is though. Shoot, we're hitting the point where Protestant bodies commend the Catholic Church for its "moral stands".

I do think we shouldn't dismiss the Catholic scandal as being inapplicable here. Not only do we have a systemic coverup organized by the highest-ups in the organization, but we even have a kindly old grandfather figure who turned out to be a bit of an with regards to this in the form of Pope John Paul II. Only they beatified him and gave him a "the Great" epithet.

Well it depends where you look. Overall the Catholic Church has been on a downslide since 1955 that was just accelerated by the sex abuse scandal. But there has been a significant drop off beacause of it particularly in Europe and the US. I mean take Ireland where approximately 85% of Catholic in what can only be called a Catholic country were going to mass regularly 15 years ago. Today that number has dropped to approximately 50%. Similar dropoffs have happened in other European countries. The reason it hasn't hit the church even harder is they've been sucking up the poor, desperate and undereducated in sub-Saharan Africa to pad their numbers overall. But even all those new adherents aren't enough to slow their overall decline.

And that commending you reference is analogous. Certain evangelical sects of Protestantism are commending John Paul II and now Benedict for their postitions on things like contraception, women, and homosexuals, overlooking the Church's abuses to do so because it suits thheir interests. Sounds a lot like a desperate Penn State football fan still in love with the JoePa facade and its "good works" over his career ignoring the heinous acts to do so because they love Penn State football.

[coozapalooza]

Maybe it's because I've been watching Louie on Netflix, but I took your last sentence as a joke. (I shouldn't have, right?)

Unfortunately, it is not. Please read ahead after you retrieve a barf bag. Hard liquor and a gun optional: Deadspin article

Here is the Facebook page where this all took place. Again, it is mind numbing and disgusting: http://www.facebook.com/Nittanyville

To me, this exemplifies why the death penalty is needed. If this is the attitude still going around on campus, clearly the toxic atmosphere is worse than thought.

[NJTank]

As long a Penn State plays I vote we call the school Pedophile State. Or Ped State

[Cujo]

As long a Penn State plays I vote we call the school Pedophile State. Or Ped State

How incredibly original!

[The_Admiral]

Here is the Facebook page where this all took place. Again, it is mind numbing and disgusting: http://www.facebook.com/Nittanyville

I'd say "I like where this is going," but I don't know where it's going.

[Sport]

There was one particularly bone-headed poster who was pretty heavy on speaking up for Joe Paterno. He went as far to say that Paterno "reminded him of his grandfather". I haven't seen that knucklehead around the boards for a while. There were a few other Joe Paterno apologists back when this first came out, and before he was dead, but those posters seemed to have vanished since his death, and nobody's stood up for him since his email and the Freeh report.

This board has been mostly emotionally "correct" in dealing with this issue.

[BBTV]

I like this guessing game. Is it I who have gone too far? Or is it has gone too far? Uh oh. I'm really in a pickle here.

I think it's has... and no.

I don't think there are any joepoligists left on this board (I stole Joepologists for another poster - I think it's perfect, though perhaps the spelling JoePalogists would be better? Or JoePaologists? With that one, you get the aplogists connotation but it also sounds a little bit like someone who digs up bones, so it could be appropriate in that respect as well.

[Lights Out]

I'm not really noticing any "one-upsmanship" in this thread, TBH. When an institution does what Penn State did, there's going to be a ton of outrage and disgust among the general public. And the people on Facebook, Twitter, ESPN, etc. who still blindly defend JoePa despite his major role in allowing Sandusky to ruin lives just serve to fan the flames.

[Gothamite]

I'm not really noticing any "one-upsmanship" in this thread, TBH. When an institution does what Penn State did, there's going to be a ton of outrage and disgust among the general public. And the people on Facebook, Twitter, ESPN, etc. who still blindly defend JoePa despite his major role in allowing Sandusky to ruin lives just serve to fan the flames.

Not even just anonymous Internet trolls - so long as there are actual flesh-and-blood people like the Paterno clan and Bill James trying to pretend that he was totally blameless, there will be substantial pushback.

[Viola73]

I'm still going to wait and see how the whole Schultz/Curley trial unfolds as to how far one can put this ALL on Joe's head.

Remember the Freeh report was just a report and Curley and Schultz were not interviewed. Their e-amils only mention Joe in name and don't go into detail as to what was said, who said it, and so on.

Again, Joe does share some blame in this mess and even he himself made the comment that in hindsite he should have done more.

But this whole episode is something that goes beyond just a football scandal. The higherups in the Universtiy are involved,

the local athorities are involved, politicians are involved, the DA is involved, local reporters are involved, and the community (Sanduskys victims) are involved.

This is goes beyond Joe and more information is coming out, and will continue for some time, and for people to concetrate on him rather than to take a step back and look at all that is being laid out is just short sighted, vengence driven, pitchfork and torch carriers, who lack the energy and or brain power to investigate the situation.

I want justice for the victims but not vengence. I want PSU to take the correct course to ensure this (or anything like this) never happens again but not at the expense of burning down the University. And I want those who are guilty to be punished but without mob justice.

I guess I'm just going to have to wait.

[IceCap]

I'd like to know who these "Joepoligists" are everyone's so inflamed about. I don't see any of them around these parts.

Thankfully they're not in force here. There were posters who defended the man earlier though.

There was one particularly bone-headed poster who was pretty heavy on speaking up for Joe Paterno. He went as far to say that Paterno "reminded him of his grandfather".

That was nuordr, if I remember correctly.

[DC in Da House w/o a Doubt]

I'd like to know who these "Joepoligists" are everyone's so inflamed about. I don't see any of them around these parts.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395

Poke around here for a little bit and you will lose any ounce of respect remaining for Penn State fans if you had any at all. A good chunk of their main argument seems to be that the media is out to get them. Out to destroy poor ole innocent Penn State. Tons of sad delusional people. One poster even blamed the victims! Why?.. because they were "unbehaved"

[bosrs1]

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8175462/jerry-sandusky-scandal-penn-state-nittany-lions-trustees-passed-reform-2004

Second to last big paragraph tipifies why Penn State needs a forced cleaning house and why the football team should be shut down for a while. These delusional apologists have now moved on to trying to poke any holes in the Freeh report they can rather than actually addressing the problems it raised.

[Gothamite]

I'm still going to wait and see how the whole Schultz/Curley trial unfolds as to how far one can put this ALL on Joe's head.

Nobody is claiming that it was all his responsibility. Curley and Schultz obviously share a large degree of the guilt, since they worked with Paterno to cover for Sandusky.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone who knew and didn't call the cops is guilty. That includes McQueary and the others. But the higher up in Penn State's food chain, the more responsibility that person has. And nobody was higher than Paterno, as we've seen.

[rams80]

I'd like to know who these "Joepoligists" are everyone's so inflamed about. I don't see any of them around these parts.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=157&f=1395

Poke around here for a little bit and you will lose any ounce of respect remaining for Penn State fans if you had any at all. A good chunk of their main argument seems to be that the media is out to get them. Out to destroy poor ole innocent Penn State. Tons of sad delusional people. One poster even blamed the victims! Why?.. because they were "unbehaved"

Well duh, if you go to the ing Scout or Rivals board you're going to find plenty of delusional apologists for any transgression on any team. This shouldn't be a surprise.