2011-12 NBA Season

[Cujo]

The Thunder win Game 1.

If this holds up and Miami loses the series, they'll be halfway to becoming the Buffalo Bills of baskeball. Just wanted to point that out.

At least the Heat have won a title before though.

The Bills won an AFL title, but nobody seems to remember that either.

[See Red]

Great win for OKC. Really liking their chances... Durant and Westbrook showed up in the 4th, Lebron and Wade didn't, though Lebron had his moments.

[McCall]

The Thunder win Game 1.

If this holds up and Miami loses the series, they'll be halfway to becoming the Buffalo Bills of baskeball. Just wanted to point that out.

At least the Heat have won a title before though.

The Bills won an AFL title, but nobody seems to remember that either.

Wade did. No one else on that team did, at least not as a member of the Heat anyway. And definitely not since organizing the "big 3". It's not so much that the Heat are the Bills as much as the "experiment" is... or namely LeBron.

[WSU151]

Haslem was on the '06 team. He and Wade have remarkably been the two constants.

[Lights Out]

It's not so much that the Heat are the Bills as much as the "experiment" is... or namely LeBron.

The same LeBron who dropped 30 and 9 tonight?

(And before anyone calls those "empty stats", he did drop 7 in the 4th, which IIRC was his second-highest scoring quarter tonight.)

Forgotten in the predictable rush to mock and blame LeBron is the real reason why the Heat continue to disappoint: Dwyane "The Flash Trash" Wade. He's clearly on the decline but he apparently thinks he still has the same athleticism. His chucking throughout the second half lost the game for the Heat, taking LeBron and Bosh out of their rhythm and wasting crucial possessions.

[Cujo]

If we're going to compare any of them to the NFL, LeBron has on his way to being the next John Elway. Not only losing three championships while young or in his prime, and looking like sh1t in all of them.

[WSU151]

It's not so much that the Heat are the Bills as much as the "experiment" is... or namely LeBron.

The same LeBron who dropped 30 and 9 tonight?

(And before anyone calls those "empty stats", he did drop 7 in the 4th, which IIRC was his second-highest scoring quarter tonight.)

Forgotten in the predictable rush to mock and blame LeBron is the real reason why the Heat continue to disappoint: Dwyane "The Flash Trash" Wade. He's

clearly on the decline but he apparently thinks he still has the same athleticism. His chucking throughout the second half lost the game for the Heat, taking LeBron and Bosh out of their rhythm and wasting crucial possessions.

If LeBron wins, it's all because of LeBron. If LeBron loses, it's somebody else's fault. I'm not gonna argue about Wade, because he his play is obviously in decline, but LeBron isn't without fault. Shooting 33% in the fourth sucks when you're the "best and it's not even close" player in the league. Excuses only carry him so far.

[Billy B]

The Thunder win Game 1.

If this holds up and Miami loses the series, they'll be halfway to becoming the Buffalo Bills of baskeball. Just wanted to point that out.

At least the Heat have won a title before though.

The Bills won an AFL title, but nobody seems to remember that either.

Wade did. No one else on that team did, at least not as a member of the Heat anyway. And definitely not since organizing the "big 3". It's not so much that the Heat are the Bills as much as the "experiment" is... or namely LeBron.

So if we're going to compare any of them to the NFL, LeBron has on his way to being the next John Elway. Not only losing three championships while young or in his prime, and looking like sh1t in all of them.

LeBron may not have had his best series in the finals last year, but Lights Out is right. He put up 30 and 9 tonight. Dwyane Wade simply isn't the Dwayne Wade of old. Throw in Chris Bosh not starting and not being at 100% and the Heat just aren't as good as the Thunder right now. Wade really needs to step up if the Heat are going to win this series. I'm not too worried about Bosh producing as long as he gets good minutes. I think he's falling into the "underrated by being overrated" category.

[Lights Out]

If LeBron wins, it's all because of LeBron. If LeBron loses, it's somebody else's fault.

Generally, that's how it is with this team. Either LeBron absolutely erupts, or they lose. Nobody else on the Heat is capable of stepping up and sharing the load when LeBron "only" drops 30 - especially not Wade, who's delusionally living in the past and still wants to monopolize the ball.

Call it "excuses" or whatever else you need to validate your dislike of LeBron, but it's the truth. I thought the Heat could win because I thought Wade had FINALLY learned after Games 6 and 7 of the ECF to get the ball to LeBron and let him do his thing, but I thought wrong. Wade is the problem with this team, not LeBron.

[infrared41]

It's not so much that the Heat are the Bills as much as the "experiment" is... or namely LeBron.

The same LeBron who dropped 30 and 9 tonight?

(And before anyone calls those "empty stats", he did drop 7 in the 4th, which IIRC was his second-highest scoring quarter tonight.)

Forgotten in the predictable rush to mock and blame LeBron is the real reason why the Heat continue to disappoint: Dwyane "The Flash Trash" Wade. He's clearly on the decline but he apparently thinks he still has the same athleticism. His chucking throughout the second half lost the game for the Heat, taking LeBron and Bosh out of their rhythm and wasting crucial possessions.

Agree on all points. I think at this point we need to stop with the "Lebron disappears in the 4th quarter" BS. Just like he did in game seven against Boston, the guy was playing hard all the way tonight. Did he hit every shot? No. But who does? All I've ever wanted to see from LBJ in "clutch time" is maximum effort when he's on the floor. He's done that. If Miami loses this series, it will be because the Thunder is a better ream with better depth. The big three experiment may in fact be destined for failure, but I agree with LO, if it fails, it's because D-Wade is the weak link.

[FiddySicks]

It's not so much that the Heat are the Bills as much as the "experiment" is... or namely LeBron.

The same LeBron who dropped 30 and 9 tonight?

(And before anyone calls those "empty stats", he did drop 7 in the 4th, which IIRC was his second-highest scoring quarter tonight.)

Forgotten in the predictable rush to mock and blame LeBron is the real reason why the Heat continue to disappoint: Dwyane "The Flash Trash" Wade. He's

clearly on the decline but he apparently thinks he still has the same athleticism. His chucking throughout the second half lost the game for the Heat, taking LeBron and Bosh out of their rhythm and wasting crucial possessions.

If LeBron wins, it's all because of LeBron. If LeBron loses, it's somebody else's fault. I'm not gonna argue about Wade, because he his play is obviously in decline, but LeBron isn't without fault. Shooting 33% in the fourth sucks when you're the "best and it's not even close" player in the league. Excuses only carry him so far.

You have got to be kidding me, right? Lebron gets so much BS flak for supposedly being such a choke artist it's ridiculous. Lebron ALWAYS gets blamed when the Heat lose, no matter how at fault he really is.

[WSU151]

I say Spoelstra is the real weak link...the guy's "Do something" offenses might do well against the Bobcats, but there needs to be a better plan when you play teams that can actually play defense.

I've seen LeBron be clutch before, as he excelled in the conference semi-finals and conference finals for two straight years with the Heat. I just want to see him take over and be dominant in the NBA Finals. Kobe and Jordan had that mentality. LeBron is still a bit hesitant when the lights are brightest and the stage is paramount. Yes LeBron is better than Wade right now. But watching the game, it was impossible to say "I'd take LeBron over Durant".

[WSU151]

It's not so much that the Heat are the Bills as much as the "experiment" is... or namely LeBron.

The same LeBron who dropped 30 and 9 tonight?

(And before anyone calls those "empty stats", he did drop 7 in the 4th, which IIRC was his second-highest scoring quarter tonight.)

Forgotten in the predictable rush to mock and blame LeBron is the real reason why the Heat continue to disappoint: Dwyane "The Flash Trash" Wade. He's

clearly on the decline but he apparently thinks he still has the same athleticism. His chucking throughout the second half lost the game for the Heat, taking LeBron and Bosh out of their rhythm and wasting crucial possessions.

If LeBron wins, it's all because of LeBron. If LeBron loses, it's somebody else's fault. I'm not gonna argue about Wade, because he his play is obviously in decline, but LeBron isn't without fault. Shooting 33% in the fourth sucks when you're the "best and it's not even close" player in the league. Excuses only carry him so far.

You have got to be kidding me, right? Lebron gets so much BS flak for supposedly being such a choke artist it's ridiculous. Lebron ALWAYS gets blamed when the Heat lose.

It's been a pattern on this board that LeBron's fanboys are quick to blame Juwan Howard, or the ballboy, or the chick in the 3rd row or someone else when the Heat lose. LeBron could shoot 10-for-55 in the 4th, still end up with 28 points for the game, and it wouldn't be his fault. It's rarely LeBron's fault, despite being the greatest player in the history of the western (and eastern) hemispheres. That was my somewhat facetious point. When LeBron gets outplayed by two opposing players in the second half, and had an overall terrible game on defense, there is indeed blame to be laid at his feet.

I do realize LeBron gets all the scrutiny in the national media. But that's what happens when you name yourself "The King".

[CS85]

The undying LeBron argument is similarly unwinnable.

• Is he a great player? ✓
  
• Is his talent/potential undeniable? ✓
  
• Could be challenge the likes of Jordan for greatest of all time? ✓
  
• Did "The Decision" and "...not 5, not 6, not 7..." destroy his reputation? ✓
  
• Did forming up another Big Three and taking a proverbial backseat arguably neuter his game? ✓
  
• Could losing arguably change things for the better? ✓✓✓
  

IMHO the national perspective is that Miami, and inherently LeBron, must learn some humility. If Miami loses out to the point where the Big Three is broken up, James would have the opportunity to lead a team again, only truly. No matter what he or others say, the presence of Wade and Bosh takes up crucial scoring opportunities and ruins his rhythm (more to the point is they take up valuable cap space that would be better used to put superior depth around #6). If LeBron was given the opportunity to in a sense 'fly solo' then I certainly would be willing to root for him again.

[Cujo]

- Could be challenge the likes of Jordan for greatest of all time? ✓

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career. (6-0, and you probably know.) LeBron already has 2 L's to his credit, and could have his third by next week. While LeBron's talents and statistics rival Jordan's, he's already proven that he can never touch the greatness Jordan attained in the postseason.

[Lights Out]

Actually, I don't think Bosh ruins LeBron's game at all. The Heat would honestly be better with LeBron, Bosh, and an upgraded supporting cast (a real center would be nice, for instance). Bosh is the second banana that LeBron never had in Cleveland, LeBron is clearly the best player in the league, and Wade is the odd man out. He needs to be traded for the Heat to start winning championships, period.

Problem is, Wade has been with the Heat from the beginning and the fanbase still loves him, and I don't think they'd even consider trading him just because of that. Chances are, they'll screw up and trade Bosh instead of Wade, still won't win anything, and then LeBron will want out.

[CS85]

- Could be challenge the likes of Jordan for greatest of all time? ✓

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career. 6-0, and you probably know. LeBron already has 2 L's to his credit, and could have 3 by next week. While LeBron's talents and statistics rival Jordan's, he's already proven that he can never touch the greatness Jordan attained in the postseason.

I would agree with this if LeBron was 30-something, but there's still plenty of time and opportunity left to go on some ungodly tear to simply get himself in the debate.

I personally don't think anyone will ever approach Jordan; not so much because of talent but because of worldwide marketability. Jordan is/was the most recognizable athlete on earth, and changed the entire sport. His success only validated the greatness people laid on him.

LeBron's simply made some pretty poor decisions, but did them early enough in his career to where the window for righting the ship is possible. I know that sounds incredibly weird to say, considering he's in his 3rd finals appearance and has won a substantial amount of awards, but I think the general consensus would agree - he's sleeping in the bed he's made, for better or for worse.

[Lights Out]

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career.

So? Jordan didn't even sniff the Finals until he was 27 years old. LeBron's 27 years old right now and has already been to three Finals.

Jordan had zero rings (obviously) and two MVPs at age 27. LeBron has zero rings and three MVPs at age 27.

I don't think it's farfetched for LeBron to challenge Jordan for GOAT, simply because he's already surpassed what Jordan had accomplished by the time he was LeBron's current age (without the experience Jordan gleaned from college ball, might I add). Unfortunately, there's still the ring count argument hanging over LBJ's head. The only way LeBron can build up his ring count is if either the Heat make a bold move to improve their roster or he demands a trade to another team whose roster is better suited to his style (*coughCP3andLBJcough*).

[WSU151]

- Could be challenge the likes of Jordan for greatest of all time? ✓

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career. 6-0, and you probably know. LeBron already has 2 L's to his credit, and could have 3 by next week. While LeBron's talents and statistics rival Jordan's, he's already proven that he can never touch the greatness Jordan attained in the postseason.

I would agree with this if LeBron was 30-something, but there's still plenty of time and opportunity left to go on some ungodly tear to simply get himself in the debate.

I personally don't think anyone will ever approach Jordan; not so much because of talent but because of worldwide marketability. Jordan is/was the most recognizable athlete on earth, and changed the entire sport. His success only validated the greatness people laid on him.

LeBron's simply made some pretty poor decisions, but did them early enough in his career to where the window for righting the ship is possible. I know that sounds incredibly weird to say, considering he's in his 3rd finals appearance and has won a substantial amount of awards, but I think the general consensus would agree - he's sleeping in the bed he's made, for better or for worse.

I'd say LeBron turned the corner this year as far as "righting the ship", IMO. It seems as though sense of humility has set in, he makes the extra effort to do the right thing, and he has said all the right things. Is it an act? We'll never know, but just have to take him at his word. His press conferences after Game 6 and Game 7 against the Celtics weren't vintage LeBron. It's like he grew up a little bit.

[WSU151]

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career.

So? Jordan didn't even sniff the Finals until he was 27 years old. LeBron's 27 years old right now and has already been to three Finals.

Jordan had zero rings (obviously) and two MVPs at age 27. LeBron has zero rings and three MVPs at age 27.

I got on Bucfan's case earlier this year about this. The years spent in college do make a difference when comparing accomplishments by a certain age. Years in the league is a much better comparison, IMO. Jordan's years at UNC aren't his fault.