2011-12 NBA Season

[Cujo]

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career.

So? Jordan didn't even sniff the Finals until he was 27 years old. LeBron's 27 years old right now and has already been to three Finals.

Jordan had zero rings (obviously) and two MVPs at age 27. LeBron has zero rings and three MVPs at age 27.

Going by age is such bullsh1t. LeBron has a good three years in the pros on Jordan becuase he actually played college ball. So if you're going to break out a stat like that, let's go by "years played", not age.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I'd say LeBron turned the corner this year as far as "righting the ship", IMO. It seems as though sense of humility has set in, he makes the extra effort to do the right thing, and he has said all the right things. Is it an act? We'll never know, but just have to take him at his word. His press conferences after Game 6 and Game 7 against the Celtics weren't vintage LeBron. It's like he grew up a little bit.

What does any of that mean? Why does it matter?

[WSU151]

Because people like athletes who are humble. People were tiring of the egomaniacal no-title LeBron.

[HedleyLamarr]

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career.

So? Jordan didn't even sniff the Finals until he was 27 years old. LeBron's 27 years old right now and has already been to three Finals.

Jordan had zero rings (obviously) and two MVPs at age 27. LeBron has zero rings and three MVPs at age 27.

Going by age is such bullsh1t. LeBron has a good three years in the pros on Jordan becuase he actually played college ball. So if you're going to break out a stat like that, let's go by "years played", not age.

And Jordan won a championship playing against his top peers in college, too.

[Lights Out]

I got on Bucfan's case earlier this year about this. The years spent in college do make a difference when comparing accomplishments by a certain age.

I'd argue that college actually gives Jordan an advantage, as opposed to something he should be "faulted" for. He played back when college basketball actually meant something, so he was able to polish his skills under Dean Smith and gain big-game experience on the national stage at UNC. LeBron, meanwhile, came straight out of high school, initially less prepared for the NBA and less polished as well.

[Kevin W.]

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career.

So? Jordan didn't even sniff the Finals until he was 27 years old. LeBron's 27 years old right now and has already been to three Finals.

Jordan had zero rings (obviously) and two MVPs at age 27. LeBron has zero rings and three MVPs at age 27.

Going by age is such bullsh1t. LeBron has a good three years in the pros on Jordan becuase he actually played college ball. So if you're going to break out a stat like that, let's go by "years played", not age.

And Jordan won a championship playing against his top peers in college, too.

And LeBron's never going to take two years off in the middle of his pro career.

[See Red]

No chance. He can never challenge Jordan for GOAT. Why? Michael never lost a Finals series during his career.

So? Jordan didn't even sniff the Finals until he was 27 years old. LeBron's 27 years old right now and has already been to three Finals.

Jordan had zero rings (obviously) and two MVPs at age 27. LeBron has zero rings and three MVPs at age 27.

Going by age is such bullsh1t. LeBron has a good three years in the pros on Jordan becuase he actually played college ball. So if you're going to break out a stat like that, let's go by "years played", not age.

And Jordan won a championship playing against his top peers in college, too.

And LeBron's never going to take two years off in the middle of his pro career.

Because the NBA is never going to have to suspend Lebron for gambling and have to keep it on the hush hush.

It should be noted, though, that the Bulls were pretty damn good during Jordan's time off, so if championships are part of the argument, it's not as though Jordan took an otherwise hapless bunch and won with them.

[Kevin W.]

Because the NBA is never going to have to suspend Lebron for gambling and have to keep it on the hush hush.

Wow, you actually believe that?

[FiddySicks]

Because the NBA is never going to have to suspend Lebron for gambling and have to keep it on the hush hush.

Wow, you actually believe that?

It's almost certainly all coincidental, but with the way Jordan gambles he may have cost himself a LOT due to it. There is even the thought that his dad was murdered due to his massive gambling debts.

I'm not saying I actually believe any of this, but he comes to my home town every summer for a celebrity golf tournament and the amount of money he and Charles Barkley blow at the local casinos is sickeningly astounding. The father of one of my life long friends is the head pit boss for Harrahs and he's told me that there have been years where they've each lost hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in a five day stretch.

[See Red]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

[Cujo]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

So does all this have to do with Jordan ON THE COURT? Hell, he cheated all over his wife and has become one of the worst owners in NBA history, if you wanna add that to his gambling addiction and whatever else you've got.

[FiddySicks]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

So does all this have to do with Jordan ON THE COURT? Hell, he cheated all over his wife and has become one of the worst owners in NBA history, if you wanna add that to his gambling addiction and whatever else you've got.

Well if it's true (again, that's a big IF), he cost himself two full seasons and a shot at walking away with even more insane numbers and the shot at two additional titles.

[Saintsfan]

Because people like athletes who are humble. People were tiring of the egomaniacal no-title LeBron.

Erm Ali is one of the most popular athletes of all time.

It's not arrogance people don't like, it's misplaced, unproven, arrogance.

[Saintsfan]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

Why would the NBA want to hush up a suspension? That makes no sense? Either Jordan was so important to the NBA that they don't suspend him, or they would want everyone to know he has been suspended. And why suspend Jordan when you let countless players away with similar infractions?

[FiddySicks]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

Why would the NBA want to hush up a suspension? That makes no sense? Either Jordan was so important to the NBA that they don't suspend him, or they would want everyone to know he has been suspended. And why suspend Jordan when you let countless players away with similar infractions?

I think it's a little different when it's the face of your entire sport. And instead of officially suspending him, which would've been absolutely catastrophic for the league's image as well as Jordan's, they may have just told him, or forced him, to take a break till everything settled down a bit. Again, still a reach. But interesting nonetheless.

[Saintsfan]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

Why would the NBA want to hush up a suspension? That makes no sense? Either Jordan was so important to the NBA that they don't suspend him, or they would want everyone to know he has been suspended. And why suspend Jordan when you let countless players away with similar infractions?

I think it's a little different when it's the face of your entire sport. And instead of officially suspending him, which would've been absolutely catastrophic for the league's image as well as Jordan's, they may have just told him, or forced him, to take a break till everything settled down a bit. Again, still a reach. But interesting nonetheless.

Makes no sense to me. What would happen if Jordan wasn't happy to keep it quiet and just walk away? As a plan goes it makes no sense. The NBA wouldn't put itself in that position, to be held to ransom by its biggest star.

[Billy B]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

Why would the NBA want to hush up a suspension? That makes no sense? Either Jordan was so important to the NBA that they don't suspend him, or they would want everyone to know he has been suspended. And why suspend Jordan when you let countless players away with similar infractions?

I think it's a little different when it's the face of your entire sport. And instead of officially suspending him, which would've been absolutely catastrophic for the league's image as well as Jordan's, they may have just told him, or forced him, to take a break till everything settled down a bit. Again, still a reach. But interesting nonetheless.

Makes no sense to me. What would happen if Jordan wasn't happy to keep it quiet and just walk away? As a plan goes it makes no sense. The NBA wouldn't put itself in that position, to be held to ransom by its biggest star.

So you think that Jordan would come out and publicly announce that he has such a big gambling addiction that he was suspended for two years? If that would happen he'd lose a bunch of endorsements and it would turn into a lot longer suspension.

[McCall]

There's at least a compelling argument to be made for it. Jordan had some huge issues with gambling, and had a convicted cocaine dealer possessing a check worth nearly $60k from him. The fact that he retired 4 months after the NBA launched an investigation into his gambling is at least a little suspicious.

I don't know what side I fall on, as i almost never buy into conspiracy theories, but I have a difficult time believing he was burned out and there's enough reason for all parties involved to have Jordan feign retirement to make sense.

Why would the NBA want to hush up a suspension? That makes no sense? Either Jordan was so important to the NBA that they don't suspend him, or they would want everyone to know he has been suspended. And why suspend Jordan when you let countless players away with similar infractions?

I think it's a little different when it's the face of your entire sport. And instead of officially suspending him, which would've been absolutely catastrophic for the league's image as well as Jordan's, they may have just told him, or forced him, to take a break till everything settled down a bit. Again, still a reach. But interesting nonetheless.

Makes no sense to me. What would happen if Jordan wasn't happy to keep it quiet and just walk away? As a plan goes it makes no sense. The NBA wouldn't put itself in that position, to be held to ransom by its biggest star.

So you think that Jordan would come out and publicly announce that he has such a big gambling addiction that he was suspended for two years? If that would happen he'd lose a bunch of endorsements and it would turn into a lot longer suspension.

It's Saintsfan. You could start agreeing with him and he'll switch over to your point of view and start debating all over again.

As for the LeBron-Jordan comparison, Jordan also played in an era when the NBA wasn't crap. If LeBron had played in the late 80's into the 90's, he'd probably be a top 15 player at best. Jordan, Bird, Magic all would own him. The NBA is now diluted with "straight outta high school" players and one-and-doners.

[Lights Out]

Because people like athletes who are humble. People were tiring of the egomaniacal no-title LeBron.

I think Durant's "humble hometown kid" act is beyond fake, and I prefer LeBron's ego. At least LeBron's not putting on a tiresome facade for the media.

[crashcarson15]

Bosh is the second banana that LeBron never had in Cleveland

Bingo. Had the Cavs been able to acquire a Chris Bosh-type player (i.e. traded J.J. Hickson for Amare at the 2010 deadline), LeBron might have stayed in town and/or been able to bring home an NBA title.

The team's performance last year (and to an extent this year) goes to show how bad of a supporting cast this really was and how good of a player LeBron was. I want to see what he can do without Wade there with him - I think he'd be a better player, one more on par with what he did individually in CLE but with a better supporting cast.