LeGooo

2011-12 NBA Season

Recommended Posts

That's the thing about titles...if Kobe stays with the team that drafted him (Charlotte Hornets), how many does he have now. Is KG better for going to Boston and winning a title than he'd have been if he stayed in Minnesota and won none?

Since the Hornets picking Kobe was a component of one of those ever popular "we're trading for your pick, but you need to pick before the trade is official, so take this guy" deals, I'm not sure how relevant that what if is.

It's relevant in that Kobe refused to play for 20 or so teams and as we know...he never had the chance to try what LeBron tried in Cleveland. Instead he went to LA, Shaq signed so he could have more endorsements, and Kobe's five titles make him one away from being as good as Jordan.

Where's the outrage? Where's the people suggesting it's watered down and that he should have tried to win one "wherever". The lesson is, be like Kobe or Eli Manning. Not only will you not have to play with a lesser franchise for your first contract, but everyone will forget about it...or at least when you do flee, make sure it's not your hometown or to a team that's TOO good. He deserves some criticism, but no more than Kobe for creating his ideal situation. I'm not totally on board with James riding coattails, but it's not like it's new.

My point is that titles can be overrated in a league set up for a certain few teams to succeed. It would have been special-very special-for LeBron to win a title in Cleveland, but that's not really how it goes. He needed to find a "relevant" place with decent weather that would attract more free agents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's been to two Finals before Jordan went to his first. Why that fact is ignored is even more ridiculous.

Because it's not a fact. Jordan had two NBA titles after his 8th year (rookie in 84-85, rings in 90-91 and 91-92). LeBron has been to two NBA Finals after 8 years in the league (now in his 9th season).

I'm talking age wise, not seasons played in the NBA. Sorry for not being more clear about that.

I wonder how good Jordan would have been had he gone straight out of high school? Would Dallas draft him #1 overall? Would he have still gone to Chicago? Second round?

No way Jordan would have gone #1 overall.

I would imagine given the mentality of the era he would have fallen well into the second round.

As far as how good he would have been, I have no clue. I haven't any evidence to suggest that college is better suited to prepare guys for the NBA over sitting on an NBA bench for a few years or vice versa. Best I can say it depends on the player and the organization he's coming into.

As far as the draft goes now even though nobody asked about it, what I would do is have a mock draft and the end of the regular season with the order determined by what the draft order would be without the lottery. If you were a high school senior that got picked top five you would be eligible for the NBA draft. For college freshman it would be top ten, sophomores top 20 and no limits on juniors and seniors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Griffin dunk was better? One on Perk or the one on Mosgov?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perkins is a decent player Mosgov is a stiff. So I say the one on Perkins is better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Griffin dunk was better? One on Perk or the one on Mosgov?

I'm not a massive NBA follower outside of the Jazz, so forgive any possible ignorance here, but isn't Perkins regarded as a pretty good defender? In that case, I'd go with the one on Perkins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just found out something that made me laugh. The Lakers, not the Clippers, have more alley-oop dunks. Who'd have thought?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's been to two Finals before Jordan went to his first. Why that fact is ignored is even more ridiculous.

Because it's not a fact. Jordan had two NBA titles after his 8th year (rookie in 84-85, rings in 90-91 and 91-92). LeBron has been to two NBA Finals after 8 years in the league (now in his 9th season).

I'm talking age wise, not seasons played in the NBA. Sorry for not being more clear about that.

Then it's not a fair argument, kinda apples and oranges. You're talking about a guy who spent years in college vs. a guy who came right out of high school. That's a decided advantage for James. If you want it to be a great stat, compare it on an even level, such as years in the league. Nobody says "Oh man, James is so much better because he was 22 years old when he went to his first final and Jordan was 27." Nobody cares about age. Jordan was just a rookie when he was 22. Context matters.

Probably why it's ignored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Griffin dunk was better? One on Perk or the one on Mosgov?

I'm not a massive NBA follower outside of the Jazz, so forgive any possible ignorance here, but isn't Perkins regarded as a pretty good defender? In that case, I'd go with the one on Perkins.

He's basically an average defensive center.

He's not a liability but he's far from making the all defensive team. Howard, Bogut, Duncan, Noah, Tyson Chandler, JaVale McGee (at this point a good candidate for the title of best player in the NBA you've never heard of. Plays for the Wizards, but he is leading the NBA in blocked shots), even Darko possibly. Those are your best defensive centers in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Griffin dunk was better? One on Perk or the one on Mosgov?

I'd go with the one on Mosgov because at least that was a dunk. The one on Perkins was more of a, very extreme and powerful, hook shot. Kind of like the "dunk" Durant had in the West Finals last year. He threw it in, but never touched the rim :P. Blake's play against Perkins was still a ridiculously awesome play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Griffin dunk was better? One on Perk or the one on Mosgov?

I'd go with the one on Mosgov because at least that was a dunk. The one on Perkins was more of a, very extreme and powerful, hook shot. Kind of like the "dunk" Durant had in the West Finals last year. He threw it in, but never touched the rim :P. Blake's play against Perkins was still a ridiculously awesome play.

The Mozgov was more of a shot than the Perkins one. At least Blake touched the rim against Perkins.

I'm going with the Perkins dunk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Griffin dunk was better? One on Perk or the one on Mosgov?

I'd go with the one on Mosgov because at least that was a dunk. The one on Perkins was more of a, very extreme and powerful, hook shot. Kind of like the "dunk" Durant had in the West Finals last year. He threw it in, but never touched the rim :P. Blake's play against Perkins was still a ridiculously awesome play.

The Mozgov was more of a shot than the Perkins one. At least Blake touched the rim against Perkins.

I'm going with the Perkins dunk.

You're right, I was thinking of a different dunk. Perkins was better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's been to two Finals before Jordan went to his first. Why that fact is ignored is even more ridiculous.

Because it's not a fact. Jordan had two NBA titles after his 8th year (rookie in 84-85, rings in 90-91 and 91-92). LeBron has been to two NBA Finals after 8 years in the league (now in his 9th season).

I'm talking age wise, not seasons played in the NBA. Sorry for not being more clear about that.

Then it's not a fair argument, kinda apples and oranges. You're talking about a guy who spent years in college vs. a guy who came right out of high school. That's a decided advantage for James. If you want it to be a great stat, compare it on an even level, such as years in the league. Nobody says "Oh man, James is so much better because he was 22 years old when he went to his first final and Jordan was 27." Nobody cares about age. Jordan was just a rookie when he was 22. Context matters.

Probably why it's ignored.

It's not ignoring context at all. What I'm saying is that Lebron is STILL younger than Jordan was when he won his first title. There is plenty of time left for Lebron to win championships. College or no college is irrelevant to this argument. What I'm saying is that all this "Durr win a championship then we'll talk" stuff is really dumb when the context is ignored from that angle. People who hate on Lebron often times seem to write him off as if he's 40 and on the downside of his career. He's young and is only getting better. Who cares if Jordan went to college and Lebron didn't? Unless he gets injured, Lebron has PLENTY of time to win championships, which IMO, he will. Maybe not five, or six, or seven (dumb statement, I'll agree with that), but damn the way people write this guy off is insane. In fact, with the enormously high expectations Lebron has had over the years to the point where people are already trying to write him off makes it that much harder IMO. And you wanna talk about context? Howabout this? Have you ever stopped to think that, just maybe, Lebron has troubles in the playoffs (I've also seen him singlehandedly win games for his team in many playoff games as well, that's ignored A LOT) because he has pressure on him from high expectations that has really been unmatched by any other player in the history of the league? From the time he was playing high school ball there were those out there who were already trying to call him the next Kobe or Jordan. I'd like to see Jordan, or Kobe, or anyone for that matter be perfectly clutch under those circumstances.

All I'm saying is give the guy a fair chance, damn.

BTW, OnWis97, excellent post and great points all around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which Griffin dunk was better? One on Perk or the one on Mosgov?

I'd go with the one on Mosgov because at least that was a dunk. The one on Perkins was more of a, very extreme and powerful, hook shot. Kind of like the "dunk" Durant had in the West Finals last year. He threw it in, but never touched the rim :P. Blake's play against Perkins was still a ridiculously awesome play.

The Mozgov was more of a shot than the Perkins one. At least Blake touched the rim against Perkins.

I'm going with the Perkins dunk.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dunk+shot

"a shot in basketball made by jumping high into the air and throwing the ball down through the basket "

There is nothing that says you HAVE to touch the rim ^_^ ... I would like to go with the one on Mosgov because that was the first Griffin dunk as a pro that made my jaw drop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No way Jordan would have gone #1 overall.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that. But it's great water-cooler fodder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's been to two Finals before Jordan went to his first. Why that fact is ignored is even more ridiculous.

Because it's not a fact. Jordan had two NBA titles after his 8th year (rookie in 84-85, rings in 90-91 and 91-92). LeBron has been to two NBA Finals after 8 years in the league (now in his 9th season).

I'm talking age wise, not seasons played in the NBA. Sorry for not being more clear about that.

I wonder how good Jordan would have been had he gone straight out of high school? Would Dallas draft him #1 overall? Would he have still gone to Chicago? Second round?

Late first round at best. Even coming out of college, while Jordan was considered to be a future star, nobody expected he'd be that good. Hell, the Bulls' GM at the time, Rod Thorn, said shortly after the draft that he didn't see Jordan as an "overpowering offensive player". Without his time in college, the perception of him as a player probably would have been lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's been to two Finals before Jordan went to his first. Why that fact is ignored is even more ridiculous.

Because it's not a fact. Jordan had two NBA titles after his 8th year (rookie in 84-85, rings in 90-91 and 91-92). LeBron has been to two NBA Finals after 8 years in the league (now in his 9th season).

I'm talking age wise, not seasons played in the NBA. Sorry for not being more clear about that.

I wonder how good Jordan would have been had he gone straight out of high school? Would Dallas draft him #1 overall? Would he have still gone to Chicago? Second round?

Late first round at best. Even coming out of college, while Jordan was considered to be a future star, nobody expected he'd be that good. Hell, the Bulls' GM at the time, Rod Thorn, said shortly after the draft that he didn't see Jordan as an "overpowering offensive player". Without his time in college, the perception of him as a player probably would have been lower.

Jordan was cut from his high school team, wasn't he? That probably would have had some effect on his draft position.

It's not ignoring context at all. What I'm saying is that Lebron is STILL younger than Jordan was when he won his first title. There is plenty of time left for Lebron to win championships. College or no college is irrelevant to this argument. What I'm saying is that all this "Durr win a championship then we'll talk" stuff is really dumb when the context is ignored from that angle. People who hate on Lebron often times seem to write him off as if he's 40 and on the downside of his career. He's young and is only getting better. Who cares if Jordan went to college and Lebron didn't? Unless he gets injured, Lebron has PLENTY of time to win championships, which IMO, he will. Maybe not five, or six, or seven (dumb statement, I'll agree with that), but damn the way people write this guy off is insane. In fact, with the enormously high expectations Lebron has had over the years to the point where people are already trying to write him off makes it that much harder IMO. And you wanna talk about context? Howabout this? Have you ever stopped to think that, just maybe, Lebron has troubles in the playoffs (I've also seen him singlehandedly win games for his team in many playoff games as well, that's ignored A LOT) because he has pressure on him from high expectations that has really been unmatched by any other player in the history of the league? From the time he was playing high school ball there were those out there who were already trying to call him the next Kobe or Jordan. I'd like to see Jordan, or Kobe, or anyone for that matter be perfectly clutch under those circumstances.

1) Jordan had to live up to being "the greatest player of all time". Not just the "next" so-and-so. You want to talk about expectations??? Did you watch the NBA in the 90s?? Jordan was ordained as "great" by about 1990. He then went on to win six championships. Jordan thrived on being the best. He didn't care about pressure. He was THE GUY. He knew he was the best. And he lived up to those expectations until he left the Bulls. Quit jockin' LeBron's balls when talking about living up to expectations and making excuses for him because of all the pressure. Jordan had all the pressure in the world and he never backed down. If LeBron didn't want expectations and hype, maybe he shouldn't have annointed himself as "The King" while he was in high school. Maybe he shouldn't have asked Cleveland to be "Witness". Maybe he shouldn't have aired an hour-long show about going to Miami. He puts all this pressure on himself. Don't let him fool you that he's a victim of the hype machine.

2) The fact that LeBron didn't go to college has a huge impact on whether or not he's younger than Jordan when Jordan went to his first Finals. If you don't see it, then God help you. It's like giving Usain Bolt a 3 second edge over Michael Johnson in the 100 yard dash and claimingg Bolt is faster when he wins. LeBron is younger than Jordan when Jordan won because LeBron DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE. It's a terrible and irrelevant argument/comparison if you give someone four extra years to get something done. Take the blinders off, guy, and realize what you're trying to argue.

If you want to say LeBron is still young and has time, fine. Completely legit. But saying LeBron did it at an age before Jordan is completely asinine because LeBron benefits from the three years that Jordan spent in college. When one guy starts his NBA career at 18, and the other guy at 21...there's a problem comparing accomplishments by a certain age. You have to compare seasons in the league. It's not Jordan's fault that he spent three years in college.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jordan was cut from his high school team, wasn't he? That probably would have had some effect on his draft position.

Yes. As a high school sophomore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jordan was cut from his high school team, wasn't he? That probably would have had some effect on his draft position.

Yes. As a high school sophomore.

He wasn't "cut." He was moved to JV. Big difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right. Thanks for the correction, 'Red.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.