LeGooo

2011-12 NBA Season

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If I remember the story correctly, Jordan tried out for the varsity team (genrally for juniors and seniors) as a sophomore and didnt make it. Its a nicer story to say he was "cut" in high school then became a superstar though

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Jordan was cut from his high school team, wasn't he? That probably would have had some effect on his draft position.

Yes. As a high school sophomore.

He wasn't "cut." He was moved to JV. Big difference.

Roger that...thanks!

If I remember the story correctly, Jordan tried out for the varsity team (genrally for juniors and seniors) as a sophomore and didnt make it. Its a nicer story to say he was "cut" in high school then became a superstar though

Thanks as well!

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But he's been to two Finals before Jordan went to his first. Why that fact is ignored is even more ridiculous.

Because it's not a fact. Jordan had two NBA titles after his 8th year (rookie in 84-85, rings in 90-91 and 91-92). LeBron has been to two NBA Finals after 8 years in the league (now in his 9th season).

I'm talking age wise, not seasons played in the NBA. Sorry for not being more clear about that.

I wonder how good Jordan would have been had he gone straight out of high school? Would Dallas draft him #1 overall? Would he have still gone to Chicago? Second round?

Late first round at best. Even coming out of college, while Jordan was considered to be a future star, nobody expected he'd be that good. Hell, the Bulls' GM at the time, Rod Thorn, said shortly after the draft that he didn't see Jordan as an "overpowering offensive player". Without his time in college, the perception of him as a player probably would have been lower.

Jordan was cut from his high school team, wasn't he? That probably would have had some effect on his draft position.

It's not ignoring context at all. What I'm saying is that Lebron is STILL younger than Jordan was when he won his first title. There is plenty of time left for Lebron to win championships. College or no college is irrelevant to this argument. What I'm saying is that all this "Durr win a championship then we'll talk" stuff is really dumb when the context is ignored from that angle. People who hate on Lebron often times seem to write him off as if he's 40 and on the downside of his career. He's young and is only getting better. Who cares if Jordan went to college and Lebron didn't? Unless he gets injured, Lebron has PLENTY of time to win championships, which IMO, he will. Maybe not five, or six, or seven (dumb statement, I'll agree with that), but damn the way people write this guy off is insane. In fact, with the enormously high expectations Lebron has had over the years to the point where people are already trying to write him off makes it that much harder IMO. And you wanna talk about context? Howabout this? Have you ever stopped to think that, just maybe, Lebron has troubles in the playoffs (I've also seen him singlehandedly win games for his team in many playoff games as well, that's ignored A LOT) because he has pressure on him from high expectations that has really been unmatched by any other player in the history of the league? From the time he was playing high school ball there were those out there who were already trying to call him the next Kobe or Jordan. I'd like to see Jordan, or Kobe, or anyone for that matter be perfectly clutch under those circumstances.

1) Jordan had to live up to being "the greatest player of all time". Not just the "next" so-and-so. You want to talk about expectations??? Did you watch the NBA in the 90s?? Jordan was ordained as "great" by about 1990. He then went on to win six championships. Jordan thrived on being the best. He didn't care about pressure. He was THE GUY. He knew he was the best. And he lived up to those expectations until he left the Bulls. Quit jockin' LeBron's balls when talking about living up to expectations and making excuses for him because of all the pressure. Jordan had all the pressure in the world and he never backed down. If LeBron didn't want expectations and hype, maybe he shouldn't have annointed himself as "The King" while he was in high school. Maybe he shouldn't have asked Cleveland to be "Witness". Maybe he shouldn't have aired an hour-long show about going to Miami. He puts all this pressure on himself. Don't let him fool you that he's a victim of the hype machine.

2) The fact that LeBron didn't go to college has a huge impact on whether or not he's younger than Jordan when Jordan went to his first Finals. If you don't see it, then God help you. It's like giving Usain Bolt a 3 second edge over Michael Johnson in the 100 yard dash and claimingg Bolt is faster when he wins. LeBron is younger than Jordan when Jordan won because LeBron DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE. It's a terrible and irrelevant argument/comparison if you give someone four extra years to get something done. Take the blinders off, guy, and realize what you're trying to argue.

If you want to say LeBron is still young and has time, fine. Completely legit. But saying LeBron did it at an age before Jordan is completely asinine because LeBron benefits from the three years that Jordan spent in college. When one guy starts his NBA career at 18, and the other guy at 21...there's a problem comparing accomplishments by a certain age. You have to compare seasons in the league. It's not Jordan's fault that he spent three years in college.

Jocking his balls? Really? Wow dude. Like I said before. Basketball fans really are the dumbest of the bunch. If it's really that hard for you to understand, let alone appreciate, just how special of a player Lebron is, I really feel sorry for you. I'll reiterate what I've said before, Jordan is the greatest in the history of the game for many reasons, and that'll never change. But if there is a guy out there who has the potential to be at that type of level, it's Lebron. I'm sorry you, and many others, let this petty anger you hold towards him keep you from seeing that. Frankly, I think it's nothing more than sad.

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Man, the Sixers beat down the Bulls tonight. Bad shooting from the Bulls, who were missing 2 starters. But yeah, Philly is legit. Great to see that team doing well, I've always liked them. Maybe could get that 4 seed.

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Wow! This Clipper-Jazz game is extremely entertaining. The Clippers first five field-goals have been either dunks or alley-oops.

Their first basket came on an alley-oop between Paul and Griffin and it happened within the first 5 seconds.

Even Lakers fans, such as myself, must admit that these Clippers are fun to watch.

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If LeBron started 3 years earlier, couldn't he theoretically play 3 years longer?

One NBA season puts as many miles on your body as three NCAA ones. Just a thought.

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Jazz really need to improve the free-throw shooting. This abundance of misses game after game has been killing them. Hopefully they turn it around here soon.

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Oh my God, the Bobcats.

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The Clippers are quickly becoming the most entertaining team in the NBA.

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Oh my God, the Bobcats.

That franchise needs to be taken to a quiet spot in the woods and put down.

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Oh my God, the Bobcats.

It's like Jordan broke the will of his own team before the start of the season.

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The Clippers are quickly becoming the most entertaining team in the NBA.

Indeed. Never in my life did I ever think I'd see the day where I'd go out of my way to watch the freaking Clippers, but here I am. B)

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[quote name=Bucfan56' timestamp='1328055746'

post='1740936]

But he's been to two Finals before Jordan went to his first. Why that fact is ignored is even more ridiculous.

Because it's not a fact. Jordan had two NBA titles after his 8th year (rookie in 84-85, rings in 90-91 and 91-92). LeBron has been to two NBA Finals after 8 years in the league (now in his 9th season).

I'm talking age wise, not seasons played in the NBA. Sorry

for not being more clear about that.

I wonder how good Jordan would have been had he gone straight out of high school? Would Dallas draft him #1 overall? Would he have still gone to Chicago? Second round?

Late first round at best. Even coming out of college, while

Jordan was considered to be a future star, nobody expected he'd be that good. Hell, the Bulls' GM at the time, Rod Thorn, said shortly after the draft that he didn't see Jordan as an "overpowering offensive player". Without his time in college, the perception of him as a player probably would have been lower.

Jordan was cut from his high school team, wasn't he? That

probably would have had some effect on his draft position.

It's not ignoring context at all. What I'm saying is that Lebron is STILL younger than Jordan was when he won his first title. There is plenty of time left for Lebron to win championships. College or no college is irrelevant to this argument. What I'm saying is that all this "Durr win a

championship then we'll talk" stuff is really dumb when the

context is ignored from that angle. People who hate on Lebron often times seem to write him off as if he's 40 and on the downside of his career. He's young and is only getting better. Who cares if Jordan went to college and Lebron didn't? Unless he gets injured, Lebron has PLENTY of time to win championships, which IMO, he will. Maybe not five, or six, or seven (dumb statement, I'll agree with

that), but damn the way people write this guy off is insane. In fact, with the enormously high expectations Lebron has

had over the years to the point where people are already trying to write him off makes it that much harder IMO. And you wanna talk about context? Howabout this? Have you ever stopped to think that, just maybe, Lebron has troubles in the playoffs (I've also seen him singlehandedly win games for his team in many playoff games as well, that's ignored A LOT) because he has pressure on him from high

expectations that has really been unmatched by any other player in the history of the league? From the time he was

playing high school ball there were those out there who were already trying to call him the next Kobe or Jordan. I'd like to see Jordan, or Kobe, or anyone for that matter be perfectly clutch under those circumstances.

1) Jordan had to live up to being "the greatest player of all time". Not just the "next" so-and-so. You want to talk

about expectations??? Did you watch the NBA in the 90s?? Jordan was ordained as "great" by about 1990. He

then went on to win six championships. Jordan thrived on being the best. He didn't care about pressure. He was THE GUY. He knew he was the best. And he lived up to those expectations until he left the Bulls. Quit jockin' LeBron's balls when talking about living up to expectations and making excuses for him because of all the pressure. Jordan had all the pressure in the world and he never

backed down. If LeBron didn't want expectations and hype, maybe he shouldn't have annointed himself as "The King"

while he was in high school. Maybe he shouldn't have asked Cleveland to be "Witness". Maybe he shouldn't have aired an hour-long show about going to Miami. He puts all this pressure on himself. Don't let him fool you that he's a victim of the hype machine.

2) The fact that LeBron didn't go to college has a huge

impact on whether or not he's younger than Jordan when Jordan went to his first Finals. If you don't see it, then God

help you. It's like giving Usain Bolt a 3 second edge over Michael Johnson in the 100 yard dash and claimingg Bolt is faster when he wins. LeBron is younger than Jordan when Jordan won because LeBron DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE. It's a terrible and irrelevant argument/comparison if you give someone four extra years to get something done. Take the blinders off, guy, and realize what you're trying to

argue.

If you want to say LeBron is still young and has time, fine. Completely legit. But saying LeBron did it at an age before Jordan is completely asinine because LeBron benefits from the three years that Jordan spent in college. When one guy starts his NBA career at 18, and the other guy at 21...there's a problem comparing accomplishments by a

certain age. You have to compare seasons in the league. It's not Jordan's fault that he spent three years in college.

Jocking his balls? Really? Wow dude. Like I said before. Basketball fans really are the dumbest of the bunch. If it's really that hard for you to understand, let alone appreciate, just how special of a player Lebron is, I really feel sorry for you. I'll reiterate what I've said before, Jordan is the

greatest in the history of the game for many reasons, and

that'll never change. But if there is a guy out there who has the potential to be at that type of level, it's Lebron. I'm sorry you, and many others, let this petty anger you hold towards him keep you from seeing that. Frankly, I think it's nothing more than sad.

LOL wow.

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Jazz really need to improve the free-throw shooting. This abundance of misses game after game has been killing them. Hopefully they turn it around here soon.

And whaddya know? Lost by two. Many missed free throws (including early technicals) bites thier @$$ yet again. You just can't miss ten free throws in a two-point game. Not to take away at all from the great games Griffin and Paul had, but the Jazz's inability to hit 'em from the stripe proved excruciatingly costly (as it has all season long).

But hey, what a game. Hard fought by both teams and very entertaining. It's a good game for national exposure, for both teams. Hopefully, despite the loss, the Jazz were able to show how good thier young core can be to a national audience. I firmly believe that in due time, the young'uns will make some loud noise in the league.

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Oh my God, the Bobcats.

Would you believe that there are people blaming Paul Silas for that dumpster fire? THEY ARE STARTING DESAGANA DIOP BECAUSE HE IS ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE TEAM. When Diop is in your starting 5 and it isn't due to injury or suspension, then your franchise is in need of dire help. A coaching change would probably exacerbate the problem.

I honestly would not mind them tanking the whole season just to take their chances with the ping-pong balls. Just get Kemba Walker some major PT & get him some damn help in next year's draft.

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Oh my God, the Bobcats.

Would you believe that there are people blaming Paul Silas for that dumpster fire? THEY ARE STARTING DESAGANA DIOP BECAUSE HE IS ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE TEAM. When Diop is in your starting 5 and it isn't due to injury or suspension, then your franchise is in need of dire help. A coaching change would probably exacerbate the problem.

I honestly would not mind them tanking the whole season just to take their chances with the ping-pong balls. Just get Kemba Walker some major PT & get him some damn help in next year's draft.

Certain teams are bad for a reason and I feel like that's the case with the Bobcats.

If your a lottery team for as many years as the Bobcats have been you have talent on your roster. Your just not doing enough to develop it. When that happens the issue isn't the coaching staff or the players. There's something else going on in that organization that's causing these systemic problems to continue year after year. What that is exactly I don't know, but if I'm the Bobcats I'm starting to ask what if any consistents have their been in the franchise been over the past 5+ years? Maybe the answer is something the people at the top don't want to hear (it usually is when a team has been losing for that long) but that's where your problem is. Its not coming from anything on the basketball court.

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Is the draft really a great way to build an NBA franchise? How many recent NBA champions have been built through the draft? you may need or want a real star out of the draft, but teams that get stuck in the lottery get stuck in the lottery it seems to me, until the can pull off a huge trade of the Garnett or Paul level. It seems to me that in the NBA 2 great players will almost always beat 5 good ones over the course of a season.

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Is the draft really a great way to build an NBA franchise? How many recent NBA champions have been built through the draft?

Did some research.

3 of the 5 starters on the most recent Lakers championship team were either drafted by the Lakers (Fisher & Bynum) or acquired on draft night (Kobe). Of course, Kobe & Fisher were around for the early 00s Laker dynasty, but that was about as homegrown as you can get when it comes for the Lakers. 3 out of the 5 starters on the Celtics' most recent championship team were either drafted (Pierce, Rondo) or acquired on draft night (Perkins.) Once again, Of course, both of these team made major acquisitions (Allen & Garnett in Boston, Gasol in LA) to add on to that, but the core was homegrown.

When the Spurs were dominating the league from 2002-2007, it was using a core of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, & Manu Ginobili, all players that they acquired through the draft. If you want, we can even throw in the championship teams who drafted superstar players & eventually won a title with that player still on the team...which includes Dirk with the Mavs & Wade with the Heat. You could make a legit argument that the core of every NBA champion over the past decade except for the Pistons (?!) has been built through the draft.

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Fisher wasn't a lottery pick though, and in fact Rondo was neither a lottery pick or in fact drafted by the Celtics. The Spurs and Mavericks are useful exceptions that show that good drafting is important, and I am not saying that it isn't important, but is fielding a team of 5 players picked 5-8 in the draft going to prosper against a team with a couple of stars and 3 non lottery picks.

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