ninersdd Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wow, Fitzgerald caught 2 TDs as Arizona took down Seattle 14-10. BEAR DOWN ARIZONA!2013/14 Tanks Picks Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epiphanic Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I've yet to see the movement to remove admitted illegal spitballers from the Hall of Fame. I've yet to see the witch hunt to identify and removing all the players who were popping greenies from the Hall of Fame. That's because it's asinine.When you catch a cheater cheating, you punish them. You don't remove any of their accomplishments, you simply hand out the punishments. And if you never caught them... damn. But their accomplishments stand. And since the Hall of Fame is based on accomplishments, those who have them deserve to to be in it.While ejecting admitted cheaters from the Hall of Fame would set an interesting precedent (and open a can of worms no one really wants to open), I don't agree with idea of "well, these cheaters are in, therefore steroid cheaters should be too." Continuing bad policy simply because it's always been done that way is not good policy. I see fans putting asterisks on baseball history/feats on their own. I think it's highly probable that Bonds used steroids and that it helped him hit a significant number of his homeruns. And I think that cheapens the feat. If he's kept out of the Hall of Fame because of that, I'm okay with that. If he's eventually inducted, I think I'll be okay with that, too. If Bonds or Clemens or Palmiero never get into the Hall that doesn't relegate them to the ash tray of baseball's past. Pete Rose isn't in the Hall and it's not like we've forgotten about him as a player. "In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."I tweet & tumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportstar1212 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 The Red Sox are giving the Marlins quite the beating right now. I like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 David Ortiz now only four home runs away from 400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramerica Industries Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Red Sox are turning it around (again), and the Marlins are absolutely horrific.Right now, the only team in the NL with a worse run differential are the Padres. Think about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I wouldn't be so quick to tout a major turnaround for the Sox. They've pulled win streaks out of their ass numerous times this season when media criticism seems to be at its most scathing. Ultimately, I think it's probably too late for them, as the rest of the division isn't going to all collapse at the same time. If I were a Sox fan, I'd want this team to be blown up and a rebuilding process to begin. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEd76 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Phils finally get their first comeback win when trailing after 7 thanks to Todd Helton not standing on the bag during a grounder to short with the bases loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I've yet to see the movement to remove admitted illegal spitballers from the Hall of Fame. I've yet to see the witch hunt to identify and removing all the players who were popping greenies from the Hall of Fame. That's because it's asinine.When you catch a cheater cheating, you punish them. You don't remove any of their accomplishments, you simply hand out the punishments. And if you never caught them... damn. But their accomplishments stand. And since the Hall of Fame is based on accomplishments, those who have them deserve to to be in it.Continuing bad policy simply because it's always been done that way is not good policy. Exactly. Not to mention that it's probably safe to assume that someone popping "greenies" wasn't going to go from a normal 190 lbs to 225 of chiseled muscle and then hit .340 with 49 home runs after batting .297 with 23 the year before. Greenies didn't inflate stats. I get where STL is coming from, but like crime, not all "cheats" are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninersdd Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Great, the Giants are getting hit by Chelsea Daggers in Anaheim right now! BEAR DOWN ARIZONA!2013/14 Tanks Picks Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shumway Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Great, the Giants are getting by Chelsea Daggers in Anaheim right now! Since when was Shane Loux a Giant....or still in the league, for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I've yet to see the movement to remove admitted illegal spitballers from the Hall of Fame. I've yet to see the witch hunt to identify and removing all the players who were popping greenies from the Hall of Fame. That's because it's asinine.When you catch a cheater cheating, you punish them. You don't remove any of their accomplishments, you simply hand out the punishments. And if you never caught them... damn. But their accomplishments stand. And since the Hall of Fame is based on accomplishments, those who have them deserve to to be in it.Continuing bad policy simply because it's always been done that way is not good policy. Exactly. Not to mention that it's probably safe to assume that someone popping "greenies" wasn't going to go from a normal 190 lbs to 225 of chiseled muscle and then hit .340 with 49 home runs after batting .297 with 23 the year before. Greenies didn't inflate stats. I get where STL is coming from, but like crime, not all "cheats" are the same.So? We can't retcon that era out of MLB history, so we might as well honor the players who excelled in that era. If we applied the MLB's logic of ignoring things that embarrass us and make us look corrupt to all history, history teachers would have very little to teach. The Hall of Fame ought to be a remembrance of the game's greatest players and moments, period. Ascribing the role of moral police to a bunch of old, stuffy, and out-of-touch voters is a huge mistake. POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Bunky Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Wow, Fitzgerald caught 2 TDs as Arizona took down Seattle 14-10.Wrong.... They ran for two TDs! You know as well as I that Arizona doesn't have a QB capable of throwing touchdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epiphanic Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 From the BBWAA website:5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.On the PED debate, the key words are "integrity" and "character". You can argue that the BBWAA has failed to live up to their standard with some of their selections, but unless you're going to argue that since the BBWAA failed to uphold their ideal before thus they shouldn't uphold their ideal now, the argument of "oh well, it happened" is a pretty weak one.So? We can't retcon that era out of MLB history, so we might as well honor the players who excelled in that era. If we applied the MLB's logic of ignoring things that embarrass us and make us look corrupt to all history, history teachers would have very little to teach. The Hall of Fame ought to be a remembrance of the game's greatest players and moments, period. Ascribing the role of moral police to a bunch of old, stuffy, and out-of-touch voters is a huge mistake.As I tried to illustrate with my Pete Rose point, players like Barry Bonds aren't going to be forgotten because they aren't in the Hall of Fame. The Hall of Fame is not the end all, be all of baseball's history. You know who isn't in the Hall of Fame? Fred Merkle. Merkle wasn't a great player, but he was pretty good. And his "bonehead" moment in 1908 allowed the Cubs to win the World Series.The tragedy of PEDs is that they question the very achievements they helped players achieve. Barry Bonds was a once-in-a-generation talent. Had he never took steroids would he have had a Hall of Fame career? Maybe (even probably), but he probably wouldn't have hit over 700 homeruns and wouldn't have been quite as feared as a hitter (thus reducing his ridiculous walk rate and OBP). I believe his bat and ball of home run 756 is in the Hall, remembering a "historical moment" (to quote Hank Aaron). The tragedy of steroids is that it leaves the question of "was Barry Bonds one of the greatest baseball players ever?" unanswered. Without steroids, how good would he have been? It's simply conjecture. "In the arena of logic, I fight unarmed."I tweet & tumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramerica Industries Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Wow, Fitzgerald caught 2 TDs as Arizona took down Seattle 14-10.Wrong.... They ran for two TDs! You know as well as I that Arizona doesn't have a QB capable of throwing touchdowns.Personally, I was hoping for a 13-10 or 16-10 score, because that would probably mean Arizona won in overtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJTank Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Phils finally get their first comeback win when trailing after 7 thanks to Todd Helton not standing on the bag during a grounder to short with the bases loaded.The Rockies are a complete mess, four man rotation 75 pitch count losing games left and right, Tulo injured. I see a lot of changes coming this summer, and I have a feeling Jim Tracy may be fired any day now. I also wont be shocked if this is the year Todd Helton is dealt to a contender. www.sportsecyclopedia.com For the best in sports history go to the Sports E-Cyclopedia at http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOldRoman Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I've yet to see the movement to remove admitted illegal spitballers from the Hall of Fame. I've yet to see the witch hunt to identify and removing all the players who were popping greenies from the Hall of Fame. That's because it's asinine.When you catch a cheater cheating, you punish them. You don't remove any of their accomplishments, you simply hand out the punishments. And if you never caught them... damn. But their accomplishments stand. And since the Hall of Fame is based on accomplishments, those who have them deserve to to be in it.Continuing bad policy simply because it's always been done that way is not good policy. Exactly. Not to mention that it's probably safe to assume that someone popping "greenies" wasn't going to go from a normal 190 lbs to 225 of chiseled muscle and then hit .340 with 49 home runs after batting .297 with 23 the year before. Greenies didn't inflate stats. I get where STL is coming from, but like crime, not all "cheats" are the same.So? We can't retcon that era out of MLB history, so we might as well honor the players who excelled in that era. If we applied the MLB's logic of ignoring things that embarrass us and make us look corrupt to all history, history teachers would have very little to teach. The Hall of Fame ought to be a remembrance of the game's greatest players and moments, period. Ascribing the role of moral police to a bunch of old, stuffy, and out-of-touch voters is a huge mistake.Fine - it's a Hall of Fame and a museum. Don't induct the roiders, but have a ominously lit display for "The Steroid Era" with Clemens, Canseco, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, et al. and talk about what they did, along with maybe a little educational info for kids on how steroids can destroy your body, or as apparently evidenced by Sosa, turn you white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I wouldn't be so quick to tout a major turnaround for the Sox. They've pulled win streaks out of their ass numerous times this season when media criticism seems to be at its most scathing. Ultimately, I think it's probably too late for them, as the rest of the division isn't going to all collapse at the same time. If I were a Sox fan, I'd want this team to be blown up and a rebuilding process to begin.Can't say that I fully agree with that. Well, actually, some points I think you are definitely right about like the random win streaks and the rest of the division not going to collapse. However I don't think it's fair to say that it's too late. Today is only June 21st and the Red Sox sit 3 games back from a potential second wild card spot. In addition, key players like Crawford, Ellsbury, and Andrew Bailey are set to return at some point and Adrian Gonzalez is likely to break out of his slump sooner or later.I wouldn't necessarily call for a major turn around for the Sox but I wouldn't shoot down the possibility of one. Honestly, I can't agree with the idea of blowing up the team and rebuilding. This isn't the NBA. You don't have to be a top 3 or 4 team to have a chance at winning the championship. In baseball, if you can get to the playoffs, anything can happen. This Red Sox group is too talented to blow up just yet.And yes, I'm a little biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zpqmaowl Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 This Red Sox group is too talented to blow up just yet.So are the Sharks, Flames, Ducks, and the Stars. the worst helmets design to me is the Jacksonville jaguars hamlets from 1995 to 2012 because you can't see the logo vary wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 This Red Sox group is too talented to blow up just yet.So are the Sharks, Flames, Ducks, and the Stars.I know too little about hockey to understand that reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Various teams in the now-fashionable 8th Place Derby Because Alls You Have To Do Is Get There. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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