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Update: Lance Armstrong to admit doping on Oprah


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Yes Tank, an American agency went after an American cyclist winning in a sport that typically isn't dominated by Americans because they hate America. :censored: yeah!

He may have cheated, but what he has done outside the sport makes it up for me.

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The whole sport was dirty when Lance won, it just gnaws at you an American won the Tour seven times that is why this witch hunt was done.

Actually what gnaws at me is that clean cyclists didn't stand a chance, and that riders who wanted to be clean, such as Americans Jonathen Vaughters and David Zabriskie were bullied into taking drugs by their team leader Armstrong. Which brings me to

He may have cheated, but what he has done outside the sport makes up for it for me.

I have some sympathy, some mind, with this view, and would have happily followed through with until yesterday. But Armstrong, for me, has burnt his bridges by forcing so many young riders into his team's EPO regime. Frankly he comes across as an egotistical w*nk*r at the moment.

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He may have cheated, but what he has done outside the sport makes it up for me.

^This.

Did Lance cheat? It's looking that way, although despite the overwhelming testimony, it remains impossible to know for a fact without any scientific evidence or admission. But it seems likely.

That sucks. And it means one of the athletes and humans I like probably isn't quite as good of the human that I thought he was. It's a bummer.

But ya know what? He is still a good human. Maybe he's a prick to be around sometimes, I dunno. We've seen reports of that enough. But he's done a lot of good for a lot of people. A LOT of good. We're all human. He's still one of the good ones in my book.

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But ya know what? He is still a good human. Maybe he's a prick to be around sometimes, I dunno. We've seen reports of that enough. But he's done a lot of good for a lot of people. A LOT of good. We're all human. He's still one of the good ones in my book.

I'm sorry, but he comes across, from the USADA report, and the testimonies within it, as anything but a 'good human'. If he behaved in the ways he did wearing anything other cyclists Lycra, most people would be insisting he go to jail as a drug trafficker, which is what in effect the report said he was.

My view of his charity work, now? All part of an egotistical self massage to tell everyone what a great person he is. I find that tough to say, and I truly accept that his work has helped many people through their cancers. But the guy does not come across well in the report, and in ways far darker than simply being a 'prick to be around sometimes.'

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The whole sport was dirty when Lance won, it just gnaws at you an American won the Tour seven times that is why this witch hunt was done.

Unnecessary clearly-political statements are just par for the course from you, Tank. Catching and punishing a rule-breaker is hardly an affront to the 'MURICAN 'CEPTIONALISM you hold dear.

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@SaintsFan: you're right about cycling getting tough on doping. They catch a large number of cyclists because they're testing aggressively. It's going to take time to change the culture of the peloton, but it's a start. The problem now is that the sport's image is probably permanently tainted. As cycling fans point to evidence of the sport's cleaning up, detractors have one man they can point to forever for proof of how bad it was.

@Tank: I think there was some element of a witch hunt to this because of Armstrong's prominence. But it's not because he's American, the international body of the sport was (until this report) basically in his camp. There's plenty of ill-will out there towards America/Americans, but not in this case.

@Mings: It's a question of do the ends justify the means I guess. Where does the livestrong money cone from? Well it's there in large part because of Lance's success on the road. I know I bought a yellow bracelet at the 2004 Tour in part because I was a Lance fan. But it looks like he cheated to win that Tour, so now I'm a dupe who gave to a good cause, but in bad faith. Did my money (all €1 of it) go on to help? Maybe, but does that justify him cheating? I don't know, it's a tough question.

Also, in the end, Lance is still going to be able to claim that he never failed a test and that all (or much) of the evidence is circumstantial. Did Hincapie see him dope? Doesn't sound like it. How about his assistant? Nope. Armstrong can forever claim that he's a victim unless someone has blood work that proves otherwise.

It's a huge mess that all just comes down to each person's personal opinion in the end.

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The whole sport was dirty when Lance won, it just gnaws at you an American won the Tour seven times that is why this witch hunt was done.

You are why many non-Americans hate Americans. Please leave.

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Everyone dopes in cycling. Level playing field. Lance still won 7 Tours...

Not everyone, and they don't nowadays, mostly. (See my earlier post about level of performance, which in terms of speed has dropped). And that's the mindset that allowed Armstrong to bully other riders into doping against their better judgement. The disturbing thing about the evidence against Armstrong is not the doping, but rather his attitude towards it and others who didn't want to be a part of his drugs ring and those who sought to blow the whistle, in a variety of ways.

It's worth spending sometime reading the report http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/ it really is very damning.

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never said it was... but it doesn't make what he did any less significant.

McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, etc. all doped... in an era of baseball where almost everyone doped.

Even playing field. What they did is no less significant just because they got caught.

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never said it was... but it doesn't make what he did any less significant.

McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens, etc. all doped... in an era of baseball where almost everyone doped.

Even playing field. What they did is no less significant just because they got caught.

Again, not EVERYONE was doping. There is plenty of evidence that some riders chose not to. But more importantly there is evidence that Armstrong, and others, forced young riders to take EPO.

I think it would be ridiculous in the circumstances for the UCI to allow Armstrong's TdeF wins to stand. If you are going to make a stand and say enough is enough, no more doping, then you just can't allow them to stand. The head of the TdeF suggested today that of they are taken from Armstrong they should be left vacant, and given the circumstances, I think that's for the best.

On the charity stuff, here is where I stand. What he did was great. But it's part of a double edged sword. The other side needs to be considered, and equally reflects part of Armstrong's character, and his legacy.

Just on the Paterno stuff as well. My point was always that by crucifying Paterno there was a risk of forgetting the worse crime. I didn't ever mean to defend the guy. And again Paterno has the same complex legacy. On one hand a very significant coaching career, on the other side a hand in a quite awful sex scandal.

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Sorry that wasn't aimed at anyone. I just found the similarities of the stories and the conflicting viewpoints interesting. You couldn't say Paterno was anything but scum but the concept that the good Lance did outweighed the bad is at least being entertained.

I do understand the two crimes are much different but the involvement of the two parties in the crime is also much different.

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Sorry that wasn't aimed at anyone. I just found the similarities of the stories and the conflicting viewpoints interesting. You couldn't say Paterno was anything but scum but the concept that the good Lance did outweighed the bad is at least being entertained.

I do understand the two crimes are much different but the involvement of the two parties in the crime is also much different.

I think that's fair. I kind of think myself that in both cases it's two different things. In one box the good, in the other the bad, yes their is a human desire to compare the good and bad, but there are just two different things. Armstrong was both a drugs mastermind, and he is a cancer charity impressario.

Just on Armstrong, I've seen some people almost talk as if Armstrong was just another drugs cheat. That's underplaying his role to a great extent. On the most important team in his era, US Postal, he was THE lynchpin in a drugs programme, and often bullied members of the Peloton to not reveal details of what he was up to.

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Lance still accomplished a lot...beating cancer and competing in the Tour De France is impressive. One would assume that without the drugs he'd still have competed very well, but not been the winner. It's still amazing. Nevertheless, his image takes a hit and deservedly so. He sounds like a complete jackass. A great athlete who overcame a lot, but a jackass nonetheless. And this pedestal we have him on has to crumble, regardless of how many others were doing it.

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