San Jose A's

[bosrs1]

Okay. But a lot of these assumptions seem rooted in the idea that there are scores of consumers and corporations who are just champing at the bit to spend huge amounts of money on baseball at a time when people and businesses are trying to curb their spending. We should know by now that the mythical New Ballpark isn't the panacea it's made out to be. St. Louis promised an entire mixed-use neighborhood and delivered a hole in the ground. The Nationals couldn't even sell their naming rights. I think sometimes we still catch ourselves in that turn-of-the-millennium mentality where there are supposedly these floods of money just waiting to wash over us and carry us away and all we have to do is "creatively" open the gates. I don't exactly feel that the A's are on that precipice, nor are the Cubs, nor are any other struggling sports teams.

EDIT: nope, not going to revise the dam/cliff mixed metaphor

Like I said, you need to educate yourself about the situation in San Jose before you go commenting on it. First, the A's have already sold the naming rights to Cisco Field to... wait for it... Cisco (a Fortune 100 company). For a tidy sum reportedly as well of $4 million a year for 30 years. As for "assumptions seem rooted in the idea that there are scores of consumers and corporations who are just chomping at the bit to spend huge amounts of money on baseball", again you need to learn about the situation. There are in fact a large number of corporations (I forget the exact number off hand but we're talking triple digits of major corporations) chomping at the bit who have expressed that desire through the Silicon Valley Leadership Group (SVLG) and have sent several letters to Bud Selig and the rest of the MLB brass to that effect (and they've assured Bud they're not current supporters of the Giants nor would they ever be to head off any use of their interest in MLB from being used as a weapon by the Giants in the ongoing discussions about the territorial issues). As for the general public, there has been some interest publicly particularly when the issue comes before the city council, but the real proof is in the pudding of San Jose's only other Big 4 team, the Sharks. They've consistently sold out their arena for 20 years, despite some down years on ice, particularly in the early going.

Will all of this make the A's a winner immediately, probably not. But it will definitely put them back in better position to be competitive. Something they lack right now. The A's in their current ballpark can't even compete with their own AAA team up in Sacramento.

[FiddySicks]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with bosrs1 here and say you're pretty off with you're assumptions, Admiral. San Jose may not be the golden goose when it comes to corporate dollars, but it's so far above Oakland it's not even in the same league, and it's even arguably the best spot in the Bay Area in terms of potential wealth due to it's connection to computer technology, which is one of the biggest growing industries in the entire country. Honestly, you're "friends" sound like they have no idea what they're talking about. And that's not even a put down to them, a lot of people still don't realize the potential that San Jose has, and would generally assume that San Francisco and Oakland are not only economically stronger, but as well more populated. Hell, I didn't even realize it untill a year or two ago, and I grew up in the area. I mean really, it's not like the A's are trying to move to Barstow. And in that sense, I can somewhat see bosrs1's argument about why some Oakland fans are pridefully hurt by the potential move. I still think its stupid because it's 30 freaking miles, but I can at least understand it, because it's really not a move to the suburbs.

[The_Admiral]

Okay. The entire world is poised to lavish the Athletics with millions of dollars, but not a moment before they move to San Jose. Message received.

[bosrs1]

Okay. The entire world is poised to lavish the Athletics with millions of dollars, but not a moment before they move to San Jose. Message received.

Hey if they could have gotten a new ballpark built in Oakland they would have been better off than they are today undoubtedly and I'm sure the A's would be a healthy organization with no aspirations to leave Oakland. Oakland had 15 years to get something done, instead all they've done is kill the uptown 9th Street ballpark, not assist Wolff with the 66th Ave site, and now kill their last realistic shot at keeping the team at the Victory Court site. If Oakland wanted to keep the team they had a funny way of showing it. Instead of doing anything useful the only work they've followed through on is working WITH the Giants and their astroturf group "Stand For San Jose" to try and cockblock San Jose's efforts (the same Giants who then went behind Oakland's back and have now initiated an effort to steal Oakland's basketball team).

[rams80]

The other aspect to this issue goes back to the length of time the A's were in Oakland, and the considerable success(5 World Titles), they won in Oakland. This is far different than other relocations, like when the New Orleans Jazz moved to Utah and kept the nickname. The Jazz were in New Orleans a short time with little success before moving west.

4 actually, to go with the 6 pennants. To go with the 5 titles and 8 pennants won in Philly. I guess the organization should have kept the Philadelphia moniker when they moved to Kansas City.

[IceCap]

San Jose may not be the golden goose when it comes to corporate dollars, but it's so far above Oakland it's not even in the same league, and it's even arguably the best spot in the Bay Area in terms of potential wealth due to it's connection to computer technology, which is one of the biggest growing industries in the entire country.

Ah, the promise of "potential." It's sunk many an expansion/relocation effort when "potential" doesn't end up equalling dollar signs. You may be right about San Jose as a destination for the Athletics, but the "potential" argument when it comes to a new market tends to leave me hesitant.

[Lights Out]

To be fair, San Jose has already proven they can more than adequately support a pro sports team.

[IceCap]

Hockey and baseball are two different things. Plenty of cities that have successfully supported one kind of pro team have fallen flat on their face when it comes to supporting another sport, even when buzzwords like "potential" were used.

[rams80]

Hockey and baseball are two different things. Plenty of cities that have successfully supported one kind of pro team have fallen flat on their face when it comes to supporting another sport, even when buzzwords like "potential" were used.

At this point, I'm willing to categorically state that if a US market can support an NHL team, they should be good for any other sport.

[IceCap]

Hockey and baseball are two different things. Plenty of cities that have successfully supported one kind of pro team have fallen flat on their face when it comes to supporting another sport, even when buzzwords like "potential" were used.

At this point, I'm willing to categorically state that if a US market can support an NHL team, they should be good for any other sport.

The funny thing is, I'm mostly referring to the NHL when I say the word "potential" scares me away from a new market when it's used. The Coyotes and Panthers being prime examples of when "potential" goes wrong. Though baseball has the Rays, another team in a market full of "potential" that hasn't materialized.

What I'm saying is that if you want to make a case for San Jose as a great relocation destination for the A's do so like bosrs1 has, with facts. Don't say "the area has a lot of potential" because that, as a justification, is far from being a home run.

[ninersdd]

The Sharks have no other hockey teams in the immediate area though to compete against. Regardless of whether or not the A's move to SJ, the Giants will always rule Norcal. While San Jose is the biggest and most affluent, San Francisco will always be more prestigious and lucrative name in the Bay Area.

[bosrs1]

San Jose may not be the golden goose when it comes to corporate dollars, but it's so far above Oakland it's not even in the same league, and it's even arguably the best spot in the Bay Area in terms of potential wealth due to it's connection to computer technology, which is one of the biggest growing industries in the entire country.

Ah, the promise of "potential." It's sunk many an expansion/relocation effort when "potential" doesn't end up equalling dollar signs. You may be right about San Jose as a destination for the Athletics, but the "potential" argument when it comes to a new market tends to leave me hesitant.

Well then pull the potential out of the argument. There is no "potential" about the wealth of the south bay. It's one of the most affluent areas on the country and world. There's nothing "potential" about it. The South Bay is one of the few areas with tons of rich people who still have money to blow and are ready to blow it on things like skyboxes, club seats, PSL's, and season tickets. And despite the Giants party line about how they won't spend it at home in San Jose but would rather drive 50 miles to San Francisco to spend it in the land of pseudo hipsters and Occupy protestors, the reality is they'll spend it at home either in addition or in spite. I mean take the Niners, they're moving to Santa Clara in part because of the untapped market in the south bay and have already sold commitments to 150 million dollars worth of suites. And they did that in that in a matter of a month.

[IceCap]

San Jose may not be the golden goose when it comes to corporate dollars, but it's so far above Oakland it's not even in the same league, and it's even arguably the best spot in the Bay Area in terms of potential wealth due to it's connection to computer technology, which is one of the biggest growing industries in the entire country.

Ah, the promise of "potential." It's sunk many an expansion/relocation effort when "potential" doesn't end up equalling dollar signs. You may be right about San Jose as a destination for the Athletics, but the "potential" argument when it comes to a new market tends to leave me hesitant.

Well then pull the potential out of the argument. There is no "potential" about the wealth of the south bay. It's one of the most affluent areas on the country and world. There's nothing "potential" about it. The South Bay is one of the few areas with tons of rich people who still have money to blow and are ready to blow it on things like skyboxes, club seats, PSL's, and season tickets. And despite the Giants party line about how they won't spend it at home in San Jose but would rather drive 50 miles to San Francisco to spend it in the land of pseudo hipsters and Occupy protestors, the reality is they'll spend it at home either in addition or in spite. I mean take the Niners, they're moving to Santa Clara in part because of the untapped market in the south bay and have already sold commitments to 150 million dollars worth of suites. And they did that in that in a matter of a month.

*ahem*

What I'm saying is that if you want to make a case for San Jose as a great relocation destination for the A's do so like bosrs1 has, with facts.

[dahatman]

I don't know if this was mentioned or not on this thread but the A's gave the territorial right to San Jose area to the Giants in the 1980's FOR FREEin attempt to get a new stadiums built. The results was that either two or three times the voter referendum to build a stadium for the Giants was turned down. So the argument that the San Jose/South Bay area is vital to the success of the Giants is nonsense. Bud Selig needs to finally make a decision on this and move on. I know that he takes time to build concensus but three plus years is a bit much. Unfortunately, the A's really do not have any other relocation options available. The short list is Portland and San Antonio...so let them become the San Jose A's and end the discussion.

[The Golden One]

I've been a season ticket holder for 12 years, I live in the east bay and I want them to go to San Jose even though it will be farther away. Bay Area fans are the most fickle in all of sports. People only go to games if it's the in thing at the time and the team is winning.

To the comment that Giants have always ruled the bay area and always will. Is either someone talking out of their ass or didn't follow the Giants before At&T Park. The previous 30 years the A's had the higher attendance more often than the Giants. But then the Giants built a ball park on the water in the middle of the tourist area. People go because it's the in thing to do more than because of the Giants. Ive been to games there and have had people say after the game while leaving "who won?, "Hey, who did the Giants play?" Umm what, you were just there. People all around you aren't even paying attention to the game, while in the stands.

Oakland is in a bad place, the city has way to many problems and there is no way they can keep the team. It would be nice if it was possible but it's just not. The coliseum is in a bad area and the press it get's for that lately makes it sound ten times worse than it is. But that perception can't be shook. A new stadium can't succeed there because fans stay away because of perception and businesses don't want to attach their name to something they don't think will work. It's a never ending cycle there and just stuck in a rut. Especially with the Giants no longer being at Candlestick and bandwagoners can easily attach themselves to going to the nice tourist friendly stadium with the great view.

San Jose on the other option is the best situation the A's could ask for anywhere. (Only thing better would be a ballpark on the water in Sf and that's kind of taken.) There will be a lot of fans that stay A's fans after the move. There will also be a ton of fans in the South bay area that become A's fans out of convenience. Having to avoid SF traffic will be a huge plus. Most areas, especially the east coast fans, could never fathom change alliances because of a team moving closer. But most fans in the bay area are fair weather at best. (There are still die hards of both sides, so no one get offended by my comments. But the level of the die hards here are extremely low compared to other teams.) But the business side, San Jose is a gold mine, There are so many big companies in the Silicon Valley that want to latch on to a team to call theirs. They want something they can buy tickets and suites to give to give out to their customers. That is right in their backyard. Right now they use the Giants to an extent and this is why the Giants are scared. They know that businesses might latch on more to the team right next door. The giants don't want to lose money and also don't want to compete with the A's for attention. They want it all to themselves. Problem is you don't get everything to yourself in this country especially when in a league that you need competition. That's why the Silicon Valley Leadership Group (SVLG) wrote the letter to Bud. But bosrs1 had it slightly wrong. The letter didn't say they would never support the Giants. The letter stated that they have tons of money to support both teams. That the A's moving in to the Silicon Valley would not stop them from sponsoring the Giants also. So that the Giants can not claim they would lose those sponsorships. You can see why the A's are willing to build the stadium theselves with all the Silicon money right their willing to sign up as the letter said. Sadly in Oakland there just is no way to make the money back on a new Stadium. (Oakland would be an example of why new stadiums don't always mean good things for the team while San Jose is the complete opposite)

Yes there is a very vocal group of "Oakland-Only" fans but the truth is the group is a few hundred at most. Yes the facebook page has like 14k likes or so but that doesn't mean everyone that liked it will not support the San Jose A's. Some just liked it because they want the A's to stay in the bay area, some just liked it to get updates on the A's stadium updates. Some like the history of the "Oakland A's" But will realize it will only be 30 miles away. The A's will still be the A's.

If anyone ever wants to learn more about everything, check out http://newballpark.org/ It's a local blog dedicated to the A's search for ballpark. That's very in depth and is run by someone that stays so on top of things, he ha become the go to person on the subject. Yes there are other stadium news there but that's to compare what the A's are going through. Plus earthquakes stadium news is obvious since the A's own the San Jose earthquakes.

[DarkJourney]

I've been a season ticket holder for 12 years, I live in the east bay and I want them to go to San Jose even though it will be farther away. Bay Area fans are the most fickle in all of sports. People only go to games if it's the in thing at the time and the team is winning.

To the comment that Giants have always ruled the bay area and always will. Is either someone talking out of their ass or didn't follow the Giants before At&T Park. The previous 30 years the A's had the higher attendance more often than the Giants. But then the Giants built a ball park on the water in the middle of the tourist area. People go because it's the in thing to do more than because of the Giants. Ive been to games there and have had people say after the game while leaving "who won?, "Hey, who did the Giants play?" Umm what, you were just there. People all around you aren't even paying attention to the game, while in the stands.

Oakland is in a bad place, the city has way to many problems and there is no way they can keep the team. It would be nice if it was possible but it's just not. The coliseum is in a bad area and the press it get's for that lately makes it sound ten times worse than it is. But that perception can't be shook. A new stadium can't succeed there because fans stay away because of perception and businesses don't want to attach their name to something they don't think will work. It's a never ending cycle there and just stuck in a rut. Especially with the Giants no longer being at Candlestick and bandwagoners can easily attach themselves to going to the nice tourist friendly stadium with the great view.

San Jose on the other option is the best situation the A's could ask for anywhere. (Only thing better would be a ballpark on the water in Sf and that's kind of taken.) There will be a lot of fans that stay A's fans after the move. There will also be a ton of fans in the South bay area that become A's fans out of convenience. Having to avoid SF traffic will be a huge plus. Most areas, especially the east coast fans, could never fathom change alliances because of a team moving closer. But most fans in the bay area are fair weather at best. (There are still die hards of both sides, so no one get offended by my comments. But the level of the die hards here are extremely low compared to other teams.) But the business side, San Jose is a gold mine, There are so many big companies in the Silicon Valley that want to latch on to a team to call theirs. They want something they can buy tickets and suites to give to give out to their customers. That is right in their backyard. Right now they use the Giants to an extent and this is why the Giants are scared. They know that businesses might latch on more to the team right next door. The giants don't want to lose money and also don't want to compete with the A's for attention. They want it all to themselves. Problem is you don't get everything to yourself in this country especially when in a league that you need competition. That's why the Silicon Valley Leadership Group (SVLG) wrote the letter to Bud. But bosrs1 had it slightly wrong. The letter didn't say they would never support the Giants. The letter stated that they have tons of money to support both teams. That the A's moving in to the Silicon Valley would not stop them from sponsoring the Giants also. So that the Giants can not claim they would lose those sponsorships. You can see why the A's are willing to build the stadium theselves with all the Silicon money right their willing to sign up as the letter said. Sadly in Oakland there just is no way to make the money back on a new Stadium. (Oakland would be an example of why new stadiums don't always mean good things for the team while San Jose is the complete opposite)

Yes there is a very vocal group of "Oakland-Only" fans but the truth is the group is a few hundred at most. Yes the facebook page has like 14k likes or so but that doesn't mean everyone that liked it will not support the San Jose A's. Some just liked it because they want the A's to stay in the bay area, some just liked it to get updates on the A's stadium updates. Some like the history of the "Oakland A's" But will realize it will only be 30 miles away. The A's will still be the A's.

If anyone ever wants to learn more about everything, check out http://newballpark.org/ It's a local blog dedicated to the A's search for ballpark. That's very in depth and is run by someone that stays so on top of things, he ha become the go to person on the subject. Yes there are other stadium news there but that's to compare what the A's are going through. Plus earthquakes stadium news is obvious since the A's own the San Jose earthquakes.

Actually I think you're pretty wrong about bay area fans being the most fickle fans in sports. Ask Warrior fans who have been filling Oracle Arena for years even though they have been handed awful teams year after year.

Okay. The entire world is poised to lavish the Athletics with millions of dollars, but not a moment before they move to San Jose. Message received.

Are you ok. You seem a little touched in the head.

[TheOldRoman]

To the comment that Giants have always ruled the bay area and always will. Is either someone talking out of their ass or didn't follow the Giants before At&T Park. The previous 30 years the A's had the higher attendance more often than the Giants. But then the Giants built a ball park on the water in the middle of the tourist area. People go because it's the in thing to do more than because of the Giants. Ive been to games there and have had people say after the game while leaving "who won?, "Hey, who did the Giants play?" Umm what, you were just there. People all around you aren't even paying attention to the game, while in the stands.

The same thing has happened in Chicago. The media has created and reenforced the "Chicago has always been a Cubs town" myth, which anybody who followed baseball before 1984 knows is bull. They don't remember when Wrigley was in a crime ridden area and they routinely closed off the entire upperdeck when the Cardinals weren't in town. Obviously the Cubs have more fans now. The Sox made several huge blunders and the Cubs used marketing genius (while still blundering on the field) to turn Wrigley into the a tourist attraction and the place to be. However, the Sox have coexisted in the same market for 111 years, being the more popular team in town for a good deal of that.

[The_Admiral]

This whole "Lake View was actually a ghetto once"--and I've heard it from more places than just that post--just seems like blowback from people pushing too hard on how wonderful Wrigleyville is. I mean, obviously the entire north side has gentrified since the '70s, but it's still Lake View.

[TheOldRoman]

This whole "Lake View was actually a ghetto once"--and I've heard it from more places than just that post--just seems like blowback from people pushing too hard on how wonderful Wrigleyville is. I mean, obviously the entire north side has gentrified since the '70s, but it's still Lake View.

Be that as it may, Wrigley was in a downtrodden, seedy area that wasn't the ballpark village it is today. That was before my time, but I wouldn't be surpised if a few average families said "Oh, I don't want to go into that neighborhood", although playing exclusively in the daytime helped. My point was more that Wrigley wasn't always the end-all, be-all that everybody had to see and the majority of the people apparently didn't care that it was "baseball the way your grandfather used to watch it ©". For most of their histories, the Cubs' relationship with the fans was every bit as fickle as the White Sox.

[BigDaddyChacon]

I've been a season ticket holder for 12 years, I live in the east bay and I want them to go to San Jose even though it will be farther away. Bay Area fans are the most fickle in all of sports. People only go to games if it's the in thing at the time and the team is winning.

To the comment that Giants have always ruled the bay area and always will. Is either someone talking out of their ass or didn't follow the Giants before At&T Park. The previous 30 years the A's had the higher attendance more often than the Giants. But then the Giants built a ball park on the water in the middle of the tourist area. People go because it's the in thing to do more than because of the Giants. Ive been to games there and have had people say after the game while leaving "who won?, "Hey, who did the Giants play?" Umm what, you were just there. People all around you aren't even paying attention to the game, while in the stands.

Oakland is in a bad place, the city has way to many problems and there is no way they can keep the team. It would be nice if it was possible but it's just not. The coliseum is in a bad area and the press it get's for that lately makes it sound ten times worse than it is. But that perception can't be shook. A new stadium can't succeed there because fans stay away because of perception and businesses don't want to attach their name to something they don't think will work. It's a never ending cycle there and just stuck in a rut. Especially with the Giants no longer being at Candlestick and bandwagoners can easily attach themselves to going to the nice tourist friendly stadium with the great view.

San Jose on the other option is the best situation the A's could ask for anywhere. (Only thing better would be a ballpark on the water in Sf and that's kind of taken.) There will be a lot of fans that stay A's fans after the move. There will also be a ton of fans in the South bay area that become A's fans out of convenience. Having to avoid SF traffic will be a huge plus. Most areas, especially the east coast fans, could never fathom change alliances because of a team moving closer. But most fans in the bay area are fair weather at best. (There are still die hards of both sides, so no one get offended by my comments. But the level of the die hards here are extremely low compared to other teams.) But the business side, San Jose is a gold mine, There are so many big companies in the Silicon Valley that want to latch on to a team to call theirs. They want something they can buy tickets and suites to give to give out to their customers. That is right in their backyard. Right now they use the Giants to an extent and this is why the Giants are scared. They know that businesses might latch on more to the team right next door. The giants don't want to lose money and also don't want to compete with the A's for attention. They want it all to themselves. Problem is you don't get everything to yourself in this country especially when in a league that you need competition. That's why the Silicon Valley Leadership Group (SVLG) wrote the letter to Bud. But bosrs1 had it slightly wrong. The letter didn't say they would never support the Giants. The letter stated that they have tons of money to support both teams. That the A's moving in to the Silicon Valley would not stop them from sponsoring the Giants also. So that the Giants can not claim they would lose those sponsorships. You can see why the A's are willing to build the stadium theselves with all the Silicon money right their willing to sign up as the letter said. Sadly in Oakland there just is no way to make the money back on a new Stadium. (Oakland would be an example of why new stadiums don't always mean good things for the team while San Jose is the complete opposite)

Yes there is a very vocal group of "Oakland-Only" fans but the truth is the group is a few hundred at most. Yes the facebook page has like 14k likes or so but that doesn't mean everyone that liked it will not support the San Jose A's. Some just liked it because they want the A's to stay in the bay area, some just liked it to get updates on the A's stadium updates. Some like the history of the "Oakland A's" But will realize it will only be 30 miles away. The A's will still be the A's.

If anyone ever wants to learn more about everything, check out http://newballpark.org/ It's a local blog dedicated to the A's search for ballpark. That's very in depth and is run by someone that stays so on top of things, he ha become the go to person on the subject. Yes there are other stadium news there but that's to compare what the A's are going through. Plus earthquakes stadium news is obvious since the A's own the San Jose earthquakes.

The Golden One speaks the truth. I remember seeing tons of A's memorabilia when I was little. Ever since AT&T Park opened, the tides turned. Now it seems like everybody in the Bay Area is a "die-hard Giants' fan." They don't go to see the Giants, they go to experience the ballpark.