Possible Brooklyn Nets leak

[CubsFanBudMan]

Ha. Is it really? I know Aurora and Naperville have shot up the Illinois population charts, but I didn't think it was at the expense of Chicago. Or is Brooklyn just still growing that fast?

At any rate, I get that Brooklyn is it's own place. As I said before, I don't mind the use of the name.

[vekterx]

Yeah, yeah, Brooklyn is the "4th largest city in America." Except it's not. Not since, what, 1898? The "Welcome Back Kotter" opening title sequence is not a substitute for an actual history book.

To be fair, aside from the fact that it shares a city government with the rest of New York City, it really IS its own place. Its got its own downtown area, culture, street grid, attractions, etc. Its even got its own library system. So yes, it's part of New York City, but that's really just a technicality.

Heck, its debatable whether they even wanted the merger in the first place. For a long time the Greater New York consolidation was known in Brooklyn as "The Great Mistake of 1898".

Queens has it's own library system too. Either way, all boroughs of New York City are their own place, but Brooklyn by far is the most easily used as a brand (IMHO easier than Manhattan, ie: Domino's BROOKLYN style pizza, Brooklyn Brewery...)

[illwauk]

Ha. Is it really? I know Aurora and Naperville have shot up the Illinois population charts, but I didn't think it was at the expense of Chicago. Or is Brooklyn just still growing that fast?

Chicago's population has dropped 6.9% since the previous census, so.....

[CubsFanBudMan]

Ha. Is it really? I know Aurora and Naperville have shot up the Illinois population charts, but I didn't think it was at the expense of Chicago. Or is Brooklyn just still growing that fast?

Chicago's population has dropped 6.9% since the previous census, so.....

Well then I guess so. I thought the trend was to flee the suburbs for the city. Thanks. /end Chicago tangent

So about those Brooklyn uni leaks...

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

I'm sick of non-New Yorkers confusing "Brooklyn" as an area of NYC and saying its not an appropriate identity..

How quaint. Well, I am sick of ignorant people people advancing the ahistorical fiction that Brooklyn is still a separate city and denying the reality that it is simply an area of our great New York City. As a proud New Yorker, I find this kind of thing disgusting.

Still, despite my personal distaste at a "Brooklyn" team, it is no doubt true that marketing a team only to Brooklyn (and possibly Queens) would be a possible strategy, given the size of the population. If that were indeed the strategy, then the name "Brooklyn Nets" name would fit it just fine.

But my point was that the Nets are clearly not aiming solely at Brooklyn; rather, they are marketing themselves to the entirety of New York City, including of course Manhattan. Their billboards outside the Garden were meant as a shot across the bow of the Knicks. When David Stern talked about the Nets' move, the first thing he mentioned was the intra-city rivalry with the Knicks. The "Brooklyn Nets" name clashes with this strategy.

When you throw in the historical value of the "New York Nets" name, the team's history as the flagship team of the ABA, winners of two of the final three championships in that league's history, and home to the amazing Julius Erving, their failure to reclaim that identity stings even more.

About a year ago, the Knicks had a promotional campaign which paired photos of current players with historical photos going back to the 1940s. It was a brilliant way of showing the history of the team. (I wish I could find some images of it on the web.) It would have been so beautiful if a returning New York Nets team had done something similar, and had embraced their history, from Dr. J, through Otis and Micheal Ray, through Kidd-KMart-RJ, to today. I would love to have seen some subway and bus ads of this type:

But, sadly, it was not to be. Alas, a man can dream.

[andrewharrington]

I'm sick of non-New Yorkers confusing "Brooklyn" as an area of NYC and saying its not an appropriate identity.. Brooklyn is NOT an area of New York CIty like the lower east side - or worse like the inner harbor of Baltimore - it IS a city... and it is a HUGE city.. 4+ million people. If you include Queens and Long Island which will be the fan base, you are talking about one of the largest regions in the NBA.. even if you don't include Manahattan, Jersey, or any of upstate New York.

Naming the team Brooklyn is not (just) a ploy to get in on the "cool" factor of the name Brooklyn. It is absolutly an appropriate name for the location in a team name. Anyone who understands the New York media market and fan base understands that. Brooklyn is a huge city with its own identity and fan base. It would make no sense to name a team in Brooklyn the New York Nets.

Brooklyn is still a borough of New York City though; even though it has its own identity it's not its own city. I certainly agree though that Brooklyn is more than capable of supporting their team and is worthy of their own identity.

It's more than its own city. It's its own county.

[gyrocol]

When you throw in the historical value of the "New York Nets" name, the team's history as the flagship team of the ABA, winners of two of the final three championships in that league's history, and home to the amazing Julius Erving, their failure to reclaim that identity stings even more.

You said you were a fan of the New York Nets team from the 70's so I can understand your fondness for the name, but I'm not sure the average New Yorker (and more importantly Brooklynite) would really have much sense of nostalgia for them.

The New York Nets were a Long Island team first and foremost, with no links to the city itself, only existed for about 8 seasons, and for most of those seasons were playing to crowds of a few thousands or less. Even the great Dr. J himself was only with the team for three seasons which was when the team reached the height of its popularity. And the team left New York on a really bad note - years of losing money, poor attendance, and a terrible last season after selling Dr. J to the Sixers just to be able to pay its bills. Heck it even paid the Knicks $4 million just to get out of New York.

But nonetheless I think for what you gain on marketing based on history and 1970's retro nostalgia, I think you can gain much more by marketing the team as "Brooklyn's hometown team" and the sense of uniqueness that an identity as the "Brooklyn Nets" would bring. The "New York Nets" would be yet another New York team to add to the mix, with no real identity other than some brief glorious years from 30-40 years ago to look back to. The "Brooklyn Nets" brings something new and different.

[smattfein]

As a resident of lower Westchester (the suburbs of New York City), most of the people I've met from outside the NY metro area (which consists of NY/Jersey/Connecticut) are thinking of Manhattan when they ask us if we live in "New York City".

Branding the team "Brooklyn" is smart because it implies an independent market from Manhattan, although though that's not exactly the case.

[scottysprings]

I'm sick of non-New Yorkers confusing "Brooklyn" as an area of NYC and saying its not an appropriate identity.. Brooklyn is NOT an area of New York CIty like the lower east side - or worse like the inner harbor of Baltimore - it IS a city... and it is a HUGE city.. 4+ million people. If you include Queens and Long Island which will be the fan base, you are talking about one of the largest regions in the NBA.. even if you don't include Manahattan, Jersey, or any of upstate New York.

Naming the team Brooklyn is not (just) a ploy to get in on the "cool" factor of the name Brooklyn. It is absolutly an appropriate name for the location in a team name. Anyone who understands the New York media market and fan base understands that. Brooklyn is a huge city with its own identity and fan base. It would make no sense to name a team in Brooklyn the New York Nets.

Brooklyn is still a borough of New York City though; even though it has its own identity it's not its own city. I certainly agree though that Brooklyn is more than capable of supporting their team and is worthy of their own identity.

It's more than it's own city. It's its own county.

My point is that Brooklyn is part of New York City. Yes it's a big area with a big population, separated from Manhattan by the East River, but regardless it's part of New York City. Like Gothamite stated better than I, both New York or Brooklyn are valid names for the team's branding. I prefer Brooklyn.

[RedSox44]

They're counting on the Brooklyn hipster population to come through, the ones who find the Knicks to be too mainstream.

Any "hipster" fans I know of are primarily soccer fans that are probably waiting for the Cosmos to return.

Not really.

[gyrocol]

My point is that Brooklyn is part of New York City. Yes it's a big area with a big population, separated from Manhattan by the East River, but regardless it's part of New York City. Like Gothamite stated better than I, both New York or Brooklyn are valid names for the team's branding. I prefer Brooklyn.

I think Andrew is alluding to the fact that typically counties are bigger municipal entities than cities. And Brooklyn happens to be a county on its own (Kings County).

Its also a separate county from New York County, by the way.

[scottysprings]

My point is that Brooklyn is part of New York City. Yes it's a big area with a big population, separated from Manhattan by the East River, but regardless it's part of New York City. Like Gothamite stated better than I, both New York or Brooklyn are valid names for the team's branding. I prefer Brooklyn.

I think Andrew is alluding to the fact that typically counties are bigger municipal entities than cities. And Brooklyn happens to be a county on its own (Kings County).

Its also a separate county from New York County, by the way.

I get that, but New York City has five counties within it, all five of which are parts of New York City. All five boroughs are under the same centralized NYC government. I agree that Brooklyn's size, population, and unique identity are characteristics reminiscent of an independent city, but I have a hard time considering it a city within a city.

[patsox]

They're counting on the Brooklyn hipster population to come through, the ones who find the Knicks to be too mainstream.

Any "hipster" fans I know of are primarily soccer fans that are probably waiting for the Cosmos to return.

Not really.

Those are bros. Those are not hipsters.

[vekterx]

It's more than it's own city. It's its own county.

Like mentioned before, all the boroughs of NYC are their own county.

If they were separate cities, 4 out of the 5 of them would be in the top 10 in the country in population.

Staten Island = Richmond County

Queens = Queens County

Brooklyn = Kings County

Bronx = Bronx County

Manhattan = New York County

[Gothamite]

I get that, but New York City has five counties within it, all five of which are parts of New York City. All five boroughs are under the same centralized NYC government.

More or less, although each borough also has its own president, who serves as a sort of "mini-mayor" with some administrative functions within the borough.

[scottysprings]

I find the presence of unified police, fire, sanitation, education, and transportation departments (amongst others), the MTA (although not limited to NYC proper) and trademark yellow cabs to be the most significant factors which unify the boroughs. The county/city argument falls short here, because as far as I know most counties throughout the country are much more fragmented and have their own local governmental departments.

[gyrocol]

I find the presence of unified police, fire, sanitation, education, and transportation departments (amongst others), the MTA (although not limited to NYC proper) and trademark yellow cabs to be the most significant factors which unify the boroughs. The county/city argument falls short here, because as far as I know most counties throughout the country are much more fragmented and have their own local governmental departments.

The counties each have their own court system - that's the biggest independent government function among them (other than the library systems that I brought up before - Queens and Brooklyn have their own)

Borough presidents used to have a ton of veto power over the NYC mayor back when there was a Board of Estimates - but the board was ruled unconstitutional so these days they serve a ceremonial role mostly, somewhat like a borough spokesperson.

I'll give you the rest though. Except for the yellow cabs. No yellow cabs in outer boroughs unless you head to the airport. Here we're forced to resort to black cars.

[andrewharrington]

It's more than it's own city. It's its own county.

Like mentioned before, all the boroughs of NYC are their own county.

If they were separate cities, 4 out of the 5 of them would be in the top 10 in the country in population.

Staten Island = Richmond County

Queens = Queens County

Brooklyn = Kings County

Bronx = Bronx County

Manhattan = New York County

That's my take on it. Each borough, while technically a part of 'the City of New York' is a unique entity; a city within a city, and I think the fact that each borough is its own county reflects that. When people hear 'New York' they generally think of Manhattan, New York county. When asked where they are from, I don't know too many Brooklynites or Staten Islanders who will give 'New York' as their answer, chiefly because each of those boroughs has its own identity.

[The_Admiral]

I don't think anyone knows too many Staten Islanders, period.

[vekterx]

I don't think anyone knows too many Staten Islanders, period.

I for one, being born in Brooklyn, early childhood in Queens, and living in Staten Island since '93...I've learned that most Staten Islanders are reluctant to say where they're from. Most of the time, they're transplants from Brooklyn. People over here, tend to say "Oh, I'm going to the city..." or "I'm going to Brooklyn". Even though they are equally part of NYC, even native New Yorkers feel each borough has it's own identity, a sub-city if you will. Kind of like Voltron I guess.