Your 2012 National Hockey Lockout Thread

[Camden Crazy]

According to Cap Geek, the Flyers payroll with both Pronger and Weber would be $70.2 million, leaving them with $0.00 in cap space.

Also, if Nashville matches, they can't trade Weber for one calendar year.

His cap hit will be reduced when the season starts and he's back on LTIR, so they should have enough room to re-sign Voracek.

[evanmaldonado]

Nash isn't even good! At this point if it's a decent offer take it Columbus!

You really want a 32-year old as the centerpiece of a deal for Nash? I highly doubt if asked the same thing a year ago, you would've said "Nash isn't even good." He's by far and away the best player the franchise has ever had, and if the 2010 Olympics wasn't a prime example of what he could do with talent around him, I don't think there is one. He's a very good player that in the right setting could be a great player.

You really aren't going to tell me Brandon Dubinsky's ever going to be as good as Nash, right?

You cannot build a team around a winger, especially a power winger. It just doesn't work.

You're saying right there, though, that you can't say Nash isn't good because trying to do what the Jackets did "doesn't work." C'mon, you're gonna tell me that you were saying Rick Nash wasn't even good when he had 40 goals and 39 assists in carrying this team to the playoffs three years ago?

That is correct. But then again, with the hype we've created for him here 79 points is a mere pittance to what he should be scoring. The guy is 6 feet 4 and plays like he's 5'10" he should be an absolute monster in front of the net and yet he's not. Nash has had eight years to do something in Columbus. All he's done is tie with two other people for most goals...back in 2004. We have a goalie who'll hopefully not be embarrassingly bad. We have overall a pretty solid defensive corps for the first time ever. If we can trade Nash for a couple of NHL ready forwards, how can you say we aren't a better team? My argument with Nash will always be horribly biased because I've always thought he was content coasting along instead of really trying to break out and be a top player.

[NEW.ERA]

If the rumors are true that the first year will be worth 26 million, there is no way that Nashville matches.

I heard 14 million over the first 4.

Either way.

[BrySmalls]

Since the Nashville franchise is worth $163 million, can this offer sheet be considered the beginning of the end of hockey in Tennessee regardless of the outcome?

[charger77]

Since the Nashville franchise is worth $163 million, can this offer sheet be considered the beginning of the end of hockey in Tennessee regardless of the outcome?

Don't know, but it may turn them into the next Columbus.

[crashcarson15]

Nash isn't even good! At this point if it's a decent offer take it Columbus!

You really want a 32-year old as the centerpiece of a deal for Nash? I highly doubt if asked the same thing a year ago, you would've said "Nash isn't even good." He's by far and away the best player the franchise has ever had, and if the 2010 Olympics wasn't a prime example of what he could do with talent around him, I don't think there is one. He's a very good player that in the right setting could be a great player.

You really aren't going to tell me Brandon Dubinsky's ever going to be as good as Nash, right?

You cannot build a team around a winger, especially a power winger. It just doesn't work.

You're saying right there, though, that you can't say Nash isn't good because trying to do what the Jackets did "doesn't work." C'mon, you're gonna tell me that you were saying Rick Nash wasn't even good when he had 40 goals and 39 assists in carrying this team to the playoffs three years ago?

That is correct. But then again, with the hype we've created for him here 79 points is a mere pittance to what he should be scoring. The guy is 6 feet 4 and plays like he's 5'10" he should be an absolute monster in front of the net and yet he's not. Nash has had eight years to do something in Columbus. All he's done is tie with two other people for most goals...back in 2004. We have a goalie who'll hopefully not be embarrassingly bad. We have overall a pretty solid defensive corps for the first time ever. If we can trade Nash for a couple of NHL ready forwards, how can you say we aren't a better team? My argument with Nash will always be horribly biased because I've always thought he was content coasting along instead of really trying to break out and be a top player.

When the front office around you never did anything once none of the prospects panned out, well yeah, you're not gonna be all too happy about it. 79 points is a mere pittance to what he should be scoring? If he had gone out this year and put up 79 points, he'd have been 10th in the league. Had he gone out and scored 40 goals, he'd have been tied for 4th in the league. But those numbers would just be a mere pittance to what he should be scoring, right?

Nobody's ever tried to argue that Rick Nash can be the player to carry a team to a Cup. He's the type of player that could carry a team to a 7th or 8th place finish. But when paired with the right supporting cast, he's probably going to be able to enhance a team drastically. Nash is still one of the better forwards in the game. He may not be elite, but he's still very good. The type of player that a contender isn't always going to have the ability to go out and get.

[BigBubba]

As for Howson, I'm glad he's holding firm on his asking price. I recognize that this city thinks the world of him so we need to get the right return.

If teams have already offered heaven and earth for Nash and Howson's said "no", do you think they'll up their offer(s) even more, or do you think they'll lose interest and pursue somebody else?

[crashcarson15]

Teams haven't offered heaven and earth for Nash, though. I'm sorry, Brandon Dubinsky's not "heaven and earth."

[JayMac]

I so hope this blows up on Philly somehow...

Don't worry njmeadowlanders...it will blow up in our faces come playoff time lol

[BigBubba]

Teams haven't offered heaven and earth for Nash, though. I'm sorry, Brandon Dubinsky's not "heaven and earth."

Note the "if".

Howson asked for Dubinsky + McDonagh/Del Zotto + Stepan/Hagelin + Kreider + a 2012 first. I'm sorry, but you just aren't getting that. You may as well capitalize now knowing that you're not going to get what you want out of him and pull the trigger on a deal before teams lose interest, which would leave you stuck with Nash or a lesser package.

[JayMac]

I wonder if Brian Burke is going to kick Paul Holmgren's ass for disrespecting The Game like this. Quick, someone go prep a barn!

How did Holmgren disrespect the game?

[BigBubba]

I wonder if Brian Burke is going to kick Paul Holmgren's ass for disrespecting The Game like this. Quick, someone go prep a barn!

How did Holmgren disrespect the game?

Google "Brian Burke Dustin Penner".

[JayMac]

I wonder if Brian Burke is going to kick Paul Holmgren's ass for disrespecting The Game like this. Quick, someone go prep a barn!

How did Holmgren disrespect the game?

Google "Brian Burke Dustin Penner".

Oh ok. Wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

[The_Admiral]

You know, between spurring Brian Burke to sanction a barn fight with Kevin Lowe, spurring Mike Smith to chase down a ref with his stick over his head, throwing out his back eating pancakes, and twitter-feuding with Conan O'Brien, weirdness orbits Dustin Penner like planets around the sun.

[BigEd76]

If the rumors are true that the first year will be worth 26 million, there is no way that Nashville matches.

I heard 14 million over the first 4.

Either way.

2012-13 through 2015-16 = $1M salary + $13M SB

2016-17 through 2017-18 = $4M salary + $8M SB

2018-19 through 2021-22 = $6M salary

2022-23 = $3M salary

2023-24 through 2025-26 = $1M salary

But Nashville would have to pay the $13M SB for 2013-14 before July 1, so that's $1M + $13M + $13M before July 1, 2013, or $27M in one year

[drdougfresh]

Teams haven't offered heaven and earth for Nash, though. I'm sorry, Brandon Dubinsky's not "heaven and earth."

Note the "if".

Howson asked for Dubinsky + McDonagh/Del Zotto + Stepan/Hagelin + Kreider + a 2012 first. I'm sorry, but you just aren't getting that. You may as well capitalize now knowing that you're not going to get what you want out of him and pull the trigger on a deal before teams lose interest, which would leave you stuck with Nash or a lesser package.

Bingo. Nash isn't getting younger. I get that he's talented and everything, but you can't expect 3 top 6 guys (plus picks) in exchange for one guy who would only replace the scoring of one of the top three guys you give up. He's good. He's not the second coming of Jesus (or Gretzky). Howson needs a reality check, big time.

[GFB]

My question is (and maybe someone can answer this for me) where does the RFA-aspect of things come into play? It's not like Nashville can match and he's forced to stay there all 14 years on a contract he had no say over, right? So would he just play out this first year of his contract and the league allow him to enter UFA next year?

If Nashville matches the only way Weber could be moved via trade after 1 year of service. If not traded, he is there for 14 yrs when he becomes UFA again.

Being an RFA means that the original team can match.

Ah... I understand. For some reason, I have NFL rules stuck in my head, where players become RFAs then UFAs the year after.

[evanmaldonado]

What I'm saying about Nash is that if he can carry a team to an 8th place finish one year like you're saying, how come he couldn't do it again after the playoff year with virtually the same supporting cast?

Oh yeah, Steve Mason.

Trade Nash. Get him out of here. He really doesn't have the heart to win or make things work with what he's has. Jerome Iginla could do it. So could Kovalchuk. How come Nash has never been able to work that out?

[Still MIGHTY]

Trade Nash. Get him out of here. He really doesn't have the heart to win or make things work with what he's has. Jerome Iginla could do it. So could Kovalchuk. How come Nash has never been able to work that out?

Jarone Iginla had a goalie that was elite for a few years along with a decent supporting cast for the majority of his time there. The Flames teams Iginla's gotten have been better than what Nash has had.

Kovalchuk didn't do much more for the Thrashers than Nash for the Jackets. They had one playoff appearance (albeit a division title) and they got swept, exactly like the Blue Jackets. Outside of the one year, Atlanta wasnt all that great. Sounds awfully similar to Nash. Kovalchuk didn't "work it out" until he got to New Jersey where he's had a much better supporting cast, goaltender, and overall system. And it could be said that any of these Devils teams haven't been "Kovalchuk's team".

[troy_3223]

My question is (and maybe someone can answer this for me) where does the RFA-aspect of things come into play? It's not like Nashville can match and he's forced to stay there all 14 years on a contract he had no say over, right? So would he just play out this first year of his contract and the league allow him to enter UFA next year?

If Nashville matches the only way Weber could be moved via trade after 1 year of service. If not traded, he is there for 14 yrs when he becomes UFA again.

Being an RFA means that the original team can match.

Ah... I understand. For some reason, I have NFL rules stuck in my head, where players become RFAs then UFAs the year after.

This whole situation puts both teams in terrible situations. I'm starting to think that this all ties in to the CBA, and players are thinking that there will be a limit to long-term contracts in the future. I certainly hope this is the case. Nobody seemed to learn from Garth Snow's mistakes with the Islanders, and I don't see how Sidney Crosby will still be playing half way through his contract. And even though I hope Luongo is still with the Canucks next year, that contract was a few years too long as well. Minnesota will make some good runs at the cup, but if they don't win right away, the Parise and Suter 13 year deals are going to look pretty stupid. I hope the Predators do the right thing. They will be less competitive in the short-term, but Poile has made smart decisions, and the Preds will be back at the top sooner rather than later if they let him go.

I won't go so far as to agree that these contracts are ruining the game, but five or six years from now, we'll see that they've ruined a few teams.

In a somewhat related note, just heard the other day former Mariner Jay Buhner said he would vomit if the Mariners resigned Ichiro to a multi-year deal. I've always thought the world could use more Jay Buhner.