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Ozzie Guillen


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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Respectfully, I think you have the wrong way around. When he isn't talking about baseball, he should be able to say what he wants. The Marlins have every right to distance themselves from non baseball comments he makes, but when he talks baseball he is a Marlins employee, so they have every right to take whatever course of action they choose then.

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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Respectfully, I think you have the wrong way around. When he isn't talking about baseball, he should be able to say what he wants. The Marlins have every right to distance themselves from non baseball comments he makes, but when he talks baseball he is a Marlins employee, so they have every right to take whatever course of action they choose then.

Respectfully (or not, I don't really care at this point), he's the manager. Everything he says to the media affects the team. He can be colorful on baseball matters because that's what he knows. He can't go too far, but the line is a lot farther away than when it comes to non-baseball. What's he gonna say baseballwise to offend anyone? He'd have to go waaaay out of line, like very racially insensitive. Otherwise it's just "gamesmanship" that most involve themselves in. It's when he says something like he did that hits deep with the fans in a non-baseball way that he has really crossed the line. That does affect the team, and therefore he was rightly punished.

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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Respectfully, I think you have the wrong way around. When he isn't talking about baseball, he should be able to say what he wants. The Marlins have every right to distance themselves from non baseball comments he makes, but when he talks baseball he is a Marlins employee, so they have every right to take whatever course of action they choose then.

He's a Marlins employee if he talks baseball or not. Not sure why you think everything changes once he leaves the stadium, especially when he's talking to the press.

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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Respectfully, I think you have the wrong way around. When he isn't talking about baseball, he should be able to say what he wants. The Marlins have every right to distance themselves from non baseball comments he makes, but when he talks baseball he is a Marlins employee, so they have every right to take whatever course of action they choose then.

He's a Marlins employee if he talks baseball or not. Not sure why you think everything changes once he leaves the stadium, especially when he's talking to the press.

Because he is a private citizen and as such is entitled to an opinion, and to air that opinion should he choose to.

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And his employer still has the right to punish him for his opinions when they have an adverse effect on business. Do you think a guy who owns a sandwich shop in a Jewish neighborhood is going to put up with a cashier who yells "HEIL HITLER!" every time he rings up a sale?

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He's a Marlins employee if he talks baseball or not. Not sure why you think everything changes once he leaves the stadium, especially when he's talking to the press.

Because he is a private citizen and as such is entitled to an opinion, and to air that opinion should he choose to.

And I'm sure like most athletes (and high profile employees in the public eye) there is some sort of good conduct clause in his contract.

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He's a Marlins employee if he talks baseball or not. Not sure why you think everything changes once he leaves the stadium, especially when he's talking to the press.

Because he is a private citizen and as such is entitled to an opinion, and to air that opinion should he choose to.

And I'm sure like most athletes (and high profile employees in the public eye) there is some sort of good conduct clause in his contract.

And I fail to see how this would breach that, or indeed have an adverse affect on the Marlins business. Is their any evidence that either fans or sponsors were going to boycott the Marlins on the back of Guillen's comments?

Guillen's comments are a street away from anti-semitism or pro fascism. They are not even especially pro Castro.

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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Who said anything about freedom of speech?

The Marlins knew they were hiring a guy who liked to shoot his mouth off without thinking and say outrageous things. Then they're shocked, just shocked when he shoots his mouth off without thinking and says something outrageous.

The Marlins knew what they were buying. They're almost as ridiculous as the professionally-outraged who created this "controversy" by taking a (profoundly stupid) quote out of context.

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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Who said anything about freedom of speech?

The Marlins knew they were hiring a guy who liked to shoot his mouth off without thinking and say outrageous things. Then they're shocked, just shocked when he shoots his mouth off without thinking and says something outrageous.

The Marlins knew what they were buying. They're almost as ridiculous as the professionally-outraged who created this "controversy" by taking a (profoundly stupid) quote out of context.

There's a difference between "colorful" comments in regards to baseball and what he said, saying "he loves" the dictator of a country who's refugees are the community and core fanbase of your team. Yeah, maybe it's not exactly how he meant it, but regardless those were his words and in that neighborhood, it is not something you want your new manager saying when you just opened a brand new stadium and are relying on that community to come out to games.

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He's a Marlins employee if he talks baseball or not. Not sure why you think everything changes once he leaves the stadium, especially when he's talking to the press.

Because he is a private citizen and as such is entitled to an opinion, and to air that opinion should he choose to.

And I'm sure like most athletes (and high profile employees in the public eye) there is some sort of good conduct clause in his contract.

And I fail to see how this would breach that, or indeed have an adverse affect on the Marlins business. Is their any evidence that either fans or sponsors were going to boycott the Marlins on the back of Guillen's comments?

Yes there have actually been some protests of sorts. And you're being really naive if you think him saying "I love Castro" is not gonna have any negative effect in Little Havana.

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And I fail to see how this would breach that, or indeed have an adverse affect on the Marlins business. Is their any evidence that either fans or sponsors were going to boycott the Marlins on the back of Guillen's comments?

Just so we're clear, you do know the demographics of the Miami metropolitan area and you do know their park is right in the middle of Little Havana, right?

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I know, I know, and that refugee community is well-renowned for their outrage.

Still, I think the Marlins fanned this flame by making his comments seem outrageous when they could have issued a press release saying "of course Ozzie didn't mean what has been reported. Nobody would mean what they claim Ozzie said."

But no, they pandered. And pandering rarely stops anything short.

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I know, I know, and that refugee community is well-renowned for their outrage.

Still, I think the Marlins fanned this flame by making his comments seem outrageous when they could have issued a press release saying "of course Ozzie didn't mean what has been reported. Nobody would mean what they claim Ozzie said."

But no, they pandered. And pandering rarely stops anything short.

You didn't answer before, so I'll ask again. Were CBS and MSNBC "pandering" when they fired Don Imus? Should his comments have been ignored because the "professionally-outraged" clowns like Sharpton and Jackson got TV time because of it?

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I know, I know, and that refugee community is well-renowned for their outrage.

Still, I think the Marlins fanned this flame by making his comments seem outrageous when they could have issued a press release saying "of course Ozzie didn't mean what has been reported. Nobody would mean what they claim Ozzie said."

But no, they pandered. And pandering rarely stops anything short.

Marlins: Oh Ozzie didn't mean what he said when he said, "I Love Castro".

Marlins fans: Oh, well ok then. That's good enough for us.

Yeah, and just like my rompous sexcapade with Kate Upton, you're dreaming.

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I know, I know, and that refugee community is well-renowned for their outrage.

Still, I think the Marlins fanned this flame by making his comments seem outrageous when they could have issued a press release saying "of course Ozzie didn't mean what has been reported. Nobody would mean what they claim Ozzie said."

But no, they pandered. And pandering rarely stops anything short.

You didn't answer before, so I'll ask again. Were CBS and MSNBC "pandering" when they fired Don Imus? Should his comments have been ignored because the "professionally-outraged" clowns like Sharpton and Jackson got TV time because of it?

Sorry, I missed that before.

But yes. I think the reaction to Imus was out of line. He's a silly entertainer who's not taken seriously by anybody and as such should be expected to say profoundly stupid things from time to time. Just like Ozzie.

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I know, I know, and that refugee community is well-renowned for their outrage.

Still, I think the Marlins fanned this flame by making his comments seem outrageous when they could have issued a press release saying "of course Ozzie didn't mean what has been reported. Nobody would mean what they claim Ozzie said."

But no, they pandered. And pandering rarely stops anything short.

You didn't answer before, so I'll ask again. Were CBS and MSNBC "pandering" when they fired Don Imus? Should his comments have been ignored because the "professionally-outraged" clowns like Sharpton and Jackson got TV time because of it?

Sorry, I missed that before.

But yes. I think the reaction to Imus was out of line. He's a silly entertainer who's not taken seriously by anybody and as such should be expected to say profoundly stupid things from time to time. Just like Ozzie.

Fair enough.

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And I fail to see how this would breach that, or indeed have an adverse affect on the Marlins business. Is their any evidence that either fans or sponsors were going to boycott the Marlins on the back of Guillen's comments?

OK, now I'm positive you do this :censored: just to be contrary. The Marlins built the new ballpark in "Little Havana." As of 2008, nearly 800,000 Cubans live in the Miami-Dade area. (For the record, that 800,000 is more than the entire population of baseball cities like Milwaukee or Cincinnati.) Of the latino population in Miami-Dade, 54% are considered "Cuban." The Marlins have made it abundantly clear that they are targeting that group.

Do you really think that Marlins management has no reason to be concerned about the affect Guillen's comments might have on "Marlins business? No one can possibly be that dense. You spout this nonsense just because you like to argue.

 

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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Respectfully, I think you have the wrong way around. When he isn't talking about baseball, he should be able to say what he wants. The Marlins have every right to distance themselves from non baseball comments he makes, but when he talks baseball he is a Marlins employee, so they have every right to take whatever course of action they choose then.

He's a Marlins employee if he talks baseball or not. Not sure why you think everything changes once he leaves the stadium, especially when he's talking to the press.

Because he is a private citizen and as such is entitled to an opinion, and to air that opinion should he choose to.

Ozzie Guillen was brought in to be a "face" of the franchise, to try and help court the Cuban American demographic. So when he goes off and says "I admire the guy Cuban Americans by in large hate" he's doing the exact opposite of what he was hired for.

While Ozzie may be a drunk who says things without thinking, I don't see how that should give him a pass on stuff like this. Do we just shrug our shoulders and fail to hold people accountable when they say stupid things now?

Furthermore, I agree. He is entitled to air any opinion that pops into his head. He wasn't arrested for it, was he? His freedom of speech wasn't trampled on. His employers, though, were still free to punish him. And they did. The man's rights were not violated.

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And I fail to see how this would breach that, or indeed have an adverse affect on the Marlins business. Is their any evidence that either fans or sponsors were going to boycott the Marlins on the back of Guillen's comments?

OK, now I'm positive you do this :censored: just to be contrary. The Marlins built the new ballpark in "Little Havana." As of 2008, nearly 800,000 Cubans live in the Miami-Dade area. (For the record, that 800,000 is more than the entire population of baseball cities like Milwaukee or Cincinnati.) Of the latino population in Miami-Dade, 54% are considered "Cuban." The Marlins have made it abundantly clear that they are targeting that group.

Do you really think that Marlins management has no reason to be concerned about the affect Guillen's comments might have on "Marlins business? No one can possibly be that dense. You spout this nonsense just because you like to argue.

Again, is there any actual evidence that the Marlins business was going to be adversely affected by Guillen's comments? And I don't mean protests, I mean boycotts by either fans or sponsors? Because I don't see how anyone with any sense can expect Guillen's comments to have any effect whatsoever, other than to make a few eyes roll, and for there to be some faux outrage from a group that loves a bit of faux outrage every once in a while.

Really are people going to stop watching a baseball team because it's manager made some stupid comments? Because if people did stop watching sports because the protagonists where prone to foot in mouth disease, sports would be played out to empty stadiums.

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In fairness to Guillen the word he is quoted as using is 'respectable' not admirable. (Fair enough that may not make a lot of difference to some people, but its a different word, with a different sense. And many people may not respect Castro for remaining in power, and alive.)

My difficulty is still that he has was suspended for those comments. I appreciate that the Marlins have acted within their rights, but even still in my view this is the statement the Miami Marlins should have put out

The Miami Marlins make it clear that the comments of their manager, Ozzie Guillen, with respect to his respect for the former Cuban dictator, Fidel Castro in no way represent the views of the Miami Marlins organisation. We recognise the offense that those comments will have caused many in the state of Florida and further afield, and are dealing with the incident internally. We resepct Mr Guillen's right to air his views publically, and note that if he had made similar comments in Cuba about an enemy of the state he would not be dealt with as justly.

If you hire Guillen you know you are going to have to deal with this kind of thing every once in a while. Are you going to suspend him every time he embarrasses your organisation? Might as well not have employed him in the first place if you are.

Again, not a freedom of speech issue.

He can say what he wants about baseball-specific matters, but when he goes into political matters that offend and alienate your very own fanbase, then yes he should be reprimanded.

Respectfully, I think you have the wrong way around. When he isn't talking about baseball, he should be able to say what he wants. The Marlins have every right to distance themselves from non baseball comments he makes, but when he talks baseball he is a Marlins employee, so they have every right to take whatever course of action they choose then.

He's a Marlins employee if he talks baseball or not. Not sure why you think everything changes once he leaves the stadium, especially when he's talking to the press.

Because he is a private citizen and as such is entitled to an opinion, and to air that opinion should he choose to.

Ozzie Guillen was brought in to be a "face" of the franchise, to try and help court the Cuban American demographic. So when he goes off and says "I admire the guy Cuban Americans by in large hate" he's doing the exact opposite of what he was hired for.

Again Guillen used the word respect, not admire. But even still the Marlins knew what they were getting when they appointed Guillen. And if his views of Castro were important, why were they not inquired about before the Marlins ownership appointed him?

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