Cleveland Scene Article on Chief Wahoo

[CrazyAnna]

What if they just did this?

I'm not pro or anti towards the Indians logo.

If they did that, we'd have the same ridiculous caricature except that he'd now be blue and white. Can't say I see much of a difference. Indigenous people aren't blue, but they also don't look a thing like Wahoo.

My Grandmother's Native American ancestors weren't red either. I was just eliminating one of the things that is considered racist by some with the red skin. Using their other team color for the character does at least eliminate that portion. lol hey, I was just throwing that one out there using New Era's website.

[chakfu]

The issue isn't exactly wahoo vs. the Irishman. It's what's good for the geese should be good for the gander. The same passion that is used to eradicate wahoo should be used to eliminate the Irish logo in one foul swoop.

The fact you seem to think europeans made it so it's okay for Europeans is irrelevant.

A racist logo is a racist logo regardless of who designed it. Spike Lee can create a racist cartoon with a character in black face, big red lips and dimwitted and it's still racist.

The race of its creater is irrelevant, which is what the bigger issue.

That's a really crazy sentiment. The context is very different in those situations. Intentionally ignoring context and blindly applying a standard is ridiculous.

[02Rover]

As an Indians fan, I wear my Wahoo gear everywhere, and I would be sad to see him go. For those who claim the logo has no tradition, they obviously did not see the Wahoo sign above Municipal Stadium, or watch the great teams of the nineties. For me, that is the symbol of a childhood full of memories of baseball. While I understand those who see racism in Wahoo, I myself don't see Wahoo as a Native American, but as a symbol of my baseball team, in a way that I will never see the block C they use now with their road uniforms (which, by the way, is possibly the most boring logo in all of professional sports, second only to the Browns' helmet). Furthermore, the Indians' franchise has a long history of using red and navy as their colors, and the Wahoo logo only makes use of the crimson skin to correspond to that color scheme. But if Wahoo has to go, so be it, but don't claim that he has no tradition or meaning to Clevelanders or the Indians fan base, don't expect Clevelanders as a group to disown the logo, and don't claim that a city's attachment to a symbol is indicative of their underlying racial insensitivity.

+1 (almost) I dont hate the Browns branding and certainly dont dislike the Indians navy block "C" look. Everything else you said in this post pretty much echos my sentiments. Thanks for putting it in a way that I could not.

[02Rover]

Are people really so insecure and weak-minded that they can be this genuinely offended over an age-old cartoon drawing? I hope chief wahoo and all other logos/team identities of his ilk stick around just for this reason; I get a kick out of all the moron-fueled chaos they create. I don't think watching you PC crusaders get pinch-faced and bang on your keyboards over a goofy picture of an indian will ever get boring to me.

+1 to this, as well. Grow up, people. There are real problems in the world. Sports teams and logos are the "candy store" of life. If anyone is truely offended and angry over something like this, well, "get a life."

[-kj]

Are people really so insecure and weak-minded that they can be this genuinely offended over an age-old cartoon drawing? I hope chief wahoo and all other logos/team identities of his ilk stick around just for this reason; I get a kick out of all the moron-fueled chaos they create. I don't think watching you PC crusaders get pinch-faced and bang on your keyboards over a goofy picture of an indian will ever get boring to me.

+1 to this, as well. Grow up, people. There are real problems in the world. Sports teams and logos are the "candy store" of life. If anyone is truely offended and angry over something like this, well, "get a life."

This statement is an amazing cop out.

There were other problems in the world other than slavery or equal rights. Thankfully, someone decided to do something about those.

Is this the highest priority? Obviously not. But that doesn't make it right.

[IceCap]

02Rover, other then it having been around for a really long time (during which time the Indians racked up a grand total of zero World Series titles) what's your reasoning behind wanting to see Wahoo stay?

[02Rover]

Are people really so insecure and weak-minded that they can be this genuinely offended over an age-old cartoon drawing? I hope chief wahoo and all other logos/team identities of his ilk stick around just for this reason; I get a kick out of all the moron-fueled chaos they create. I don't think watching you PC crusaders get pinch-faced and bang on your keyboards over a goofy picture of an indian will ever get boring to me.

+1 to this, as well. Grow up, people. There are real problems in the world. Sports teams and logos are the "candy store" of life. If anyone is truely offended and angry over something like this, well, "get a life."

This statement is an amazing cop out.

There were other problems in the world other than slavery or equal rights. Thankfully, someone decided to do something about those.

Is this the highest priority? Obviously not. But that doesn't make it right.

Slavery and equal rights were actual things that effected how people lived thier lives, made a living and fed thier families on a day to day basis. Chief Wahoo is a picture on a baseball hat. Please note the difference and lets keep things in thier perspective.

[IceCap]

Are people really so insecure and weak-minded that they can be this genuinely offended over an age-old cartoon drawing? I hope chief wahoo and all other logos/team identities of his ilk stick around just for this reason; I get a kick out of all the moron-fueled chaos they create. I don't think watching you PC crusaders get pinch-faced and bang on your keyboards over a goofy picture of an indian will ever get boring to me.

+1 to this, as well. Grow up, people. There are real problems in the world. Sports teams and logos are the "candy store" of life. If anyone is truely offended and angry over something like this, well, "get a life."

This statement is an amazing cop out.

There were other problems in the world other than slavery or equal rights. Thankfully, someone decided to do something about those.

Is this the highest priority? Obviously not. But that doesn't make it right.

Slavery and equal rights were actual things that effected how people lived thier lives, made a living and fed thier families on a day to day basis. Chief Wahoo is a picture on a baseball hat. Please note the difference and lets keep things in thier perspective.

These were just posters and cartoons. Should people not be offended by them?

[tBBP]

What if they just did this?

I'm not pro or anti towards the Indians logo.

If they did that, we'd have the same ridiculous caricature except that he'd now be blue and white. Can't say I see much of a difference. Indigenous people aren't blue, but they also don't look a thing like Wahoo.

Watch me blow some minds on this one...

...Suppose, for the sake of the hypothetical argument, that cap and that logo, minus the feather, existed for an MLB team named the Kentucky Fugates. Might be fairly possible this guy might find it offensive:

(By the way, that is NOT a photoshop job...blue people actually exist. For those curious, read up on the Blue People of Kentucky here and here.)

[-kj]

(By the way, that is NOT a photoshop job...blue people actually exist. For those curious, read up on the Blue People of Kentucky here.)

See also.

[Kevin W.]

What if they just did this?

I'm not pro or anti towards the Indians logo.

If they did that, we'd have the same ridiculous caricature except that he'd now be blue and white. Can't say I see much of a difference. Indigenous people aren't blue, but they also don't look a thing like Wahoo.

Watch me blow some minds on this one...

...Suppose, for the sake of the hypothetical argument, that cap and that logo, minus the feather, existed for an MLB team named the Kentucky Fugates. Might be fairly possible this guy might find it offensive:

(By the way, that is NOT a photoshop job...blue people actually exist. For those curious, read up on the Blue People of Kentucky here and here.)

That guy's not related to the Fugates. He's blue because he won't stop ingesting some alloy of silver as medicine, despite the fact that it colors his skin like that.

Also, would the Indians' name be less offensive if they kept it but got rid of the logo? Obviously it would be best if they got rid of both, but would that intermediate step work?

[rams80]

Are people really so insecure and weak-minded that they can be this genuinely offended over an age-old cartoon drawing? I hope chief wahoo and all other logos/team identities of his ilk stick around just for this reason; I get a kick out of all the moron-fueled chaos they create. I don't think watching you PC crusaders get pinch-faced and bang on your keyboards over a goofy picture of an indian will ever get boring to me.

+1 to this, as well. Grow up, people. There are real problems in the world. Sports teams and logos are the "candy store" of life. If anyone is truely offended and angry over something like this, well, "get a life."

This statement is an amazing cop out.

There were other problems in the world other than slavery or equal rights. Thankfully, someone decided to do something about those.

Is this the highest priority? Obviously not. But that doesn't make it right.

Slavery and equal rights were actual things that effected how people lived thier lives, made a living and fed thier families on a day to day basis. Chief Wahoo is a picture on a baseball hat. Please note the difference and lets keep things in thier perspective.

Yeah, it represents ideas and attitudes. Completely different and unimportant.

[infrared41]

Also, would the Indians' name be less offensive if they kept it but got rid of the logo? Obviously it would be best if they got rid of both, but would that intermediate step work?

Well Kev, my opinion is that, of the two, Wahoo is by far the worst offender (for lack of a better term.) I don't have any issue with the name Indians. If done correctly, it's entirely possible that the name Indians could become an actual tribute to indigenous people. Indians is simply an incorrect term. I don't think it's meant to be derogatory. Chief Wahoo is an insulting caricature. That's how I see the difference anyway.

[HolyStroke]

If it offends you don't watch Indians games

[Mings]

What if they just did this?

I'm not pro or anti towards the Indians logo.

If they did that, we'd have the same ridiculous caricature except that he'd now be blue and white. Can't say I see much of a difference. Indigenous people aren't blue, but they also don't look a thing like Wahoo.

Watch me blow some minds on this one...

...Suppose, for the sake of the hypothetical argument, that cap and that logo, minus the feather, existed for an MLB team named the Kentucky Fugates. Might be fairly possible this guy might find it offensive:

(By the way, that is NOT a photoshop job...blue people actually exist. For those curious, read up on the Blue People of Kentucky here and here.)

I know I'm going to hell for this, but my first thought was "When did they make a live action Smurfs movie?"

And the fact that it would definitely be better than the NPH give me money to make a crappy film version.

[BlueSky]

Also, would the Indians' name be less offensive if they kept it but got rid of the logo? Obviously it would be best if they got rid of both, but would that intermediate step work?

Well Kev, my opinion is that, of the two, Wahoo is by far the worst offender (for lack of a better term.) I don't have any issue with the name Indians. If done correctly, it's entirely possible that the name Indians could become an actual tribute to indigenous people. Indians is simply an incorrect term. I don't think it's meant to be derogatory. Chief Wahoo is an insulting caricature. That's how I see the difference anyway.

Exactly. The Braves' name and logos are respectful, and that's really the bottom line. Now the tomahawk chop and that chant may be another matter but respect can be done as far as the name and logos. FSU is another example. As for the Redskins, logo is fine but the name should go.

[PoppersPop]

Slavery and equal rights were actual things that effected how people lived thier lives, made a living and fed thier families on a day to day basis. Chief Wahoo is a picture on a baseball hat. Please note the difference and lets keep things in thier perspective.

If it's just a 'picture on a baseball hat' then there shouldn't be any problem with changing it, no?

[Morgan33]

Exactly. The Braves' name and logos are respectful, and that's really the bottom line. Now the tomahawk chop and that chant may be another matter but respect can be done as far as the name and logos. FSU is another example. As for the Redskins, logo is fine but the name should go.

I agree. The Redskins name must be censored! I also think the word "Black" should be taken out of the Blackhawks name since there is a slight chance a small number of African Americans could take issue with it. While were at it, lets get rid of the Cleveland Browns name too! Wouldn't want that to get misconstrued...

But why stop at race? I think we should force the Blue Jackets to get rid of all references to the civil war. How do you think people in the South feel? We don't want to offend anyone so I don't think it's a question of "if" but "when." The Devils should also rebrand since it's offensive to Christians, the Capitals should rebrand to appease Libertarians, the Avalanche for boarders, the Flames for house fire victims, the Oilers for environmentalists, etc!

[CrazyAnna]

If it's just a 'picture on a baseball hat' then there shouldn't be any problem with changing it, no?

Not that I care, but couldn't that be used for the exact same reason to keep it as well?

[illwauk]

If it's just a 'picture on a baseball hat' then there shouldn't be any problem with changing it, no?

Not that I care, but couldn't that be used for the exact same reason to keep it as well?

Except those of us who want to see Wahoo deep-sixed yesterday aren't the ones claiming it's "just a picture."

Exactly. The Braves' name and logos are respectful, and that's really the bottom line. Now the tomahawk chop and that chant may be another matter but respect can be done as far as the name and logos. FSU is another example. As for the Redskins, logo is fine but the name should go.

I agree. The Redskins name must be censored! I also think the word "Black" should be taken out of the Blackhawks name since there is a slight chance a small number of African Americans could take issue with it. While were at it, lets get rid of the Cleveland Browns name too! Wouldn't want that to get misconstrued...

But why stop at race? I think we should force the Blue Jackets to get rid of all references to the civil war. How do you think people in the South feel? We don't want to offend anyone so I don't think it's a question of "if" but "when." The Devils should also rebrand since it's offensive to Christians, the Capitals should rebrand to appease Libertarians, the Avalanche for boarders, the Flames for house fire victims, the Oilers for environmentalists, etc!

Yes... yes... because all these things are TOTALLY the same as naming a team after a racial slur....