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Cleveland Scene Article on Chief Wahoo


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I'm going to try another argument against Chief Wahoo besides whether or not Wahoo is racist:

The Indians should try and use something close to the look from their most successful teams, as should most major league teams. The Tribe's most successful years were the Feller-Wynn-Lemon years, and they didn't wear Chief Wahoo. For caps, if I recall, they had the red wishbone C on the cap with the red bill.

We can argue all we want as to if Chief Wahoo is racist or not, but we can't argue with the most successful years of the Indians.

By the way, I'd like to see more teams go with their most successful looks. I'd like to see the Reds return to the Big Red Machine look, only with belts and buttons. Or the Padres go back to the brown and mustard of the early '80s. And so on.

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They can't wear a wishbone C.

Why not? They used to. Granted, their old wishbone C looked exactly like Cincinnati's but in my opinion, the Indians old blue hats with the red wishbone C outlined in white was easily their best looking hat.

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They can't wear a wishbone C.

Why not? They used to. Granted, their old wishbone C looked exactly like Cincinnati's but in my opinion, the Indians old blue hats with the red wishbone C outlined in white was easily their best looking hat.

The wishbone C is already used by a team in Ohio AND a team in the AL Central.

One would think that if they wanted to get rid of Wahoo that they'd rather have their own identity instead of copying the other Ohio team and their division rival.

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MOD EDIT: For the LAST time... the labeling of one another as "bigots", "racists", "P.C. police", "liberals", etc in this thread is now over. Stick to discussing the merits of the Cleveland Scene article and/or the Chief Wahoo logo. Otherwise, this thread will be locked and sent to the Graveyard.

Thank you.

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What if we all missed it that Wahoo isn't even an Indian, but instead a white guy with a feather on his head? I mean there's really nothing to me that screams Native American, which is why I don't see it as such a big deal I guess

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What if we all missed it that Wahoo isn't even an Indian, but instead a white guy with a feather on his head? I mean there's really nothing to me that screams Native American, which is why I don't see it as such a big deal I guess

The things that "scream" Native American:

  1. The feather
  2. the name "Cheif Wahoo"
  3. the fact that it is a logo for a team called the Indians

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What if we all missed it that Wahoo isn't even an Indian, but instead a white guy with a feather on his head? I mean there's really nothing to me that screams Native American, which is why I don't see it as such a big deal I guess

The things that "scream" Native American:

  1. The feather
  2. the name "Cheif Wahoo"
  3. the fact that it is a logo for a team called the Indians

Yeah, other than all that, he could just be a white guy, right? :rolleyes:

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The wishbone C is already used by a team in Ohio AND a team in the AL Central.

One would think that if they wanted to get rid of Wahoo that they'd rather have their own identity instead of copying the other Ohio team and their division rival.

If the Indians were to use a wishbone C, it wouldn't be copying other teams. It would be copying their own history.

Plus, I'm a diehard Twins fan and I don't think of the C in the TC logo as a wishbone C. I think of it as one logo -- the TC logo -- and the C just happens to be a certain style. But I don't think of the C as separate from the T. It's the TC.

As for the Indians and the Reds, look at the years both teams had the wishbone C. You mean to tell me you can't tell the difference between the looks of the two clubs?

Personally, I think the best-looking C was the one used in the 1970s. But I prefer teams go with styles, or slightly modified styles, from their best years.

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MOD EDIT

2. It's censorship if the restricted speech or image is intended to reflect creative expression or thought, and done so at a governmental level. It's not censorship if a lot of people think an image or speech that is being used to reinforce or sympathize with negative, bigoted stereotypes should probably be discouraged from use.

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The wishbone C is already used by a team in Ohio AND a team in the AL Central.

One would think that if they wanted to get rid of Wahoo that they'd rather have their own identity instead of copying the other Ohio team and their division rival.

If the Indians were to use a wishbone C, it wouldn't be copying other teams. It would be copying their own history.

Plus, I'm a diehard Twins fan and I don't think of the C in the TC logo as a wishbone C. I think of it as one logo -- the TC logo -- and the C just happens to be a certain style. But I don't think of the C as separate from the T. It's the TC.

As for the Indians and the Reds, look at the years both teams had the wishbone C. You mean to tell me you can't tell the difference between the looks of the two clubs?

Personally, I think the best-looking C was the one used in the 1970s. But I prefer teams go with styles, or slightly modified styles, from their best years.

I just think that two teams in the same state using the same cap logo is ridiculous. I realize there are slight differences, but generally speaking, they are the same logo. The wishbone C is almost always associated with the Reds when it comes to baseball. Your average baseball fan probably has no clue the Indians used to wear the wishbone C on their caps. It just isn't a good idea in my opinion.

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There are plenty of fine ways to illustrate a C that isn't the wishbone. The Indians current road hats and terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible red alternate hats are an example of that.

Besides, in the time since the Indians quit using the wishbone C, it has become synonomous with the city of Cincinnati. I know a couple of people that even have it tattooed on their bodies and it's more of an expression of their city than it is the baseball team.

It's sort of like how Detroit owns old english D's.

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There are plenty of fine ways to illustrate a C that isn't the wishbone.

Yeah, but that's the hat I grew up with...Tradition...PC Police...blah blah blah. B)

You're right of course, I just like the hat. It really is my first Indians hat. But they can't go back to it.

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The only hat logo I have ever seen that appreciate the same way I appreciate the Wahoo hat is this one.

wholesale-wholesale-fitted-caps-sale-mlb-cleveland-indians-blue-hats-clothes.jpg

For those arguing that the Indians should return to their most successful style, I disagree. The problem is that the most successful Indians teams played in the 1940s. That style has been gone a long time, and most current fans do not have associations with that team's logos, but remember more the teams of the nineties, who wore Wahoo and only Wahoo on their hats.

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The only hat logo I have ever seen that appreciate the same way I appreciate the Wahoo hat is this one.

wholesale-wholesale-fitted-caps-sale-mlb-cleveland-indians-blue-hats-clothes.jpg

For those arguing that the Indians should return to their most successful style, I disagree. The problem is that the most successful Indians teams played in the 1940s. That style has been gone a long time, and most current fans do not have associations with that team's logos, but remember more the teams of the nineties, who wore Wahoo and only Wahoo on their hats.

I never really liked that cap. I've always thought the "I" looked like a "J" and it looked even worse/unidentifiable by its self on a cap. I just don't like the idea of a wishbone "C" not just because of Cincy but because there are so many other options. I'd love a full block-identity. Agreed on the last point, though.

And Comic Sans...yuck.

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I like the Script I hat mostly because, to me, it looks like a feather, and is distinct to the Indians franchise. I think it's a lot harder to make a single block letter your own, without some additions. The only team that I can think of that has really succeeded in that regard is Texas. All the other letter-logo teams have a distinct stylization, or a combination of two letters that creates a more interesting ensemble: the blackletter D for Detroit, wishbone C for Cincy, interlocking SF, NY, LA, TB, etc. The block C doesn't have any of that, and looks like a C I could find in a fontbook, not a logo.

I see what you mean about the "I" looking like a "J", but combined with the Indians wordmark is part of a more comprehensive graphic scheme.

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